Whose trick is being exposed here?

Addresses new and interesting links to other sites (not listed on the Genii website) that merit attention.

Postby Necromancer » 07/21/09 07:41 AM

On MSN.com this morning, this explanatory video was posted. Whose version of Triumph is this?

http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-us&vid=3d0 ... &GT1=42007

All of this magician's videos are at magicjug.com -- most are rudimentary, but I find this particular exposure disturbing.
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Postby Philippe Billot » 07/21/09 07:54 AM

It's a mix of some methods but it's not the best and he isn't a good manipulator.

The most curious is that this guy doesn't understand how to reveal the two cards.

It's better to fan the deck face up to show all cards face up except two face down which are the chosen one.
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Postby mrgoat » 07/21/09 08:58 AM

Philippe Billot wrote:It's better to fan the deck face up to show all cards face up except two face down which are the chosen one.


I wouldn't state that as a fact, because many people disagree with you.

If you have the chosen card(s) face down at the end, there is a massive anticlimax. Everyone knows it is going to be their card.

However, if you reveal the card face up, it smacks them so hard in the face they often soil themselves.

:)
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Postby Necromancer » 07/21/09 09:13 AM

Technical points aside, this video is posted on the front page of MSN.com. People who have no desire at all to learn magic but just want to know how a trick works are watching it at this very moment.

To let MSN know that you don't support the widespread exposure of magical secrets, please use the feedback form here:
http://ccc01.opinionlab.com/o.asp?id=VUReeGRf

Best,
Neil
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/21/09 12:27 PM

How, specifically, does it make us look good to whine in public that an easily available published item is being demonstrated and explained on a video?

Now what's this about calendars? The number of days in the year and the dates of the moon phases and eclipses were huge secrets that were kept quiet for many hundreds of years.

See what happens when you turn your back on tradition :(
Last edited by Jonathan Townsend on 07/21/09 12:34 PM, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: Someone just posted an ebook on how to make fire. we gotta do something!
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Postby Necromancer » 07/21/09 12:50 PM

It's not whining in public, Jonathan. It's sending a private message to somebody who's in a position to yank this off the front page of MSN.com. And personally, I think it's worth the time and pixels to give it a try.

Best,
Neil
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Postby Dave V » 07/21/09 01:28 PM

I don't know how effective answering a poll on how we like the MSN site in general is going to be. The other recourse is to do what Jonathan is cautioning against and post negative comments which *are* public and gives him more of the attention he seeks.

I hate Zanthor as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of responding to his clip. MSN just posts what they think is interesting stuff. If we just wait a bit without making a big fuss, it'll go away on it's own and will be replaced with something more compelling like a video of a sleepwalking dog or chicken with kittens.
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Postby mrgoat » 07/21/09 01:43 PM

Necromancer wrote:It's not whining in public, Jonathan. It's sending a private message to somebody who's in a position to yank this off the front page of MSN.com.


I believe Mr Townsend was referring to this thread as your public whining. As it's whining. And it's in public.

I reckon he would realise a private message would be, as the name suggests, private.

Could be wrong though.

:D
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Postby David Alexander » 07/21/09 02:38 PM

Geez, it's David Zanthor. I'm wondering if he really gets work with all this hype or if he's just a figment of a film school student's imagination. More and more, I suspect the latter.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 07/21/09 03:19 PM

I met David in Edinburgh a couple of years ago. He seemed a nice enough person, despite scooting around town in a motorbility chair and being followed by a camera all the time.

A few friends went to his show and were less than impressed (and that's being nice).

I tend to agree with David A - I think David Z is indeed a character created for fun. And to wind us up.

Take care, Ian
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Postby Necromancer » 07/21/09 03:22 PM

Damian: perhaps you're trying to help, but you're just being insulting. Thanks anyway.

David A, Ian, and Dave V: no matter what a joke he may be as a performer, his videos exposing such methodology as the mercury card fold are being seen by hundreds of thousands of members of the public. Maybe dropping a note to MSN.com via the above mechanism won't work; the odds are pretty good it won't do a thing. But to my way of thinking, it doesn't cost anything but a few minutes of typing (which we're all doing here anyway), so it's worth a shot. Not as convenient as apathy, maybe, but what is?

Best,
Neil
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/21/09 10:13 PM

...the odds are pretty good it won't do a thing. But to my way of thinking, it doesn't cost anything but a few minutes of typing...


and it's a great way to make us look worse than usual to the public which does not 'get' the basic issue.

The rational counterargument to any such petition is to point out the large number of similar videos on YouTube, books in the bookstore and TV specials where tricks are taught by respected magicians.

Suggestions for an argument that has some chance of serving our interests are welcome.
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Postby Necromancer » 07/21/09 11:01 PM

Jonathan, how is dropping a private note via a feedback function to MSN "a great way to make us look worse than usual to the public?" That is all I am proposing. It seems you have a different notion in your head.

The rational counterargument you propose isn't an equal comparison. The situation here is one in which people are simply online to check their email when -- surprise -- their MSN email service serves them with a front page spotlighting a video that promises magicians' secrets. This is not at all the same as seeking out a book in the bookstore or purposely trolling YouTube for info. No initiative of any kind is needed.

Best,
Neil
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/22/09 06:25 AM

IMHO the question is something like "What's the story and just how would we look if it were told in public?" Let's explore how what you proposed course of action looks to those on the receiving end - the intended audience.

Whoever/whatever manages content there finds an email or lots of email about some posted content. They do a quick check to make sure the content is not showing anything obviously inappropriate for a general audience (violence/sexuality...) and then ponder what sort of group/political issue there might be for a story.

Irate magician wants video pulled for revealing card trick?
Magicians flood MSN with request to keep secrets?
David Zanthor - prophet or pest?

There's three pages of this kind of video for those who care to watch. http://www.videojug.com/tag/classic-magic-tricks
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Postby Necromancer » 07/22/09 07:22 AM

Fair point, Jonathan -- only MSN doesn't write stories for its home page. It only appropriates content, and a friendly word to help guide appropriation decisions probably isn't a bad thing.

But this is all conjecture now. As Dave V predicted, the video was replaced today with something else entirely.

Best,
Neil
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