Magic on the Moon

Discussions of new films, books, television shows, and media indirectly related to magic and magicians. For example, there may be a book on mnemonics or theatrical technique we should know or at least know about.

Postby 000 » 07/21/09 01:55 AM

Hope you all enjoyed the 40 year anniversary 'man on the moon' celebrations.

I for one am one of those who believed it never happened....so convinced was I after viewing the 4 set disc from moonmovie.com

So do yourselves a favour: purchase and watch these discs to destroy many an illusion.

It's all explainable ito the Cold War BS prevailing at the time. Ive had my say and will add no more for those who undoubtedly hold the opposite view.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 07/21/09 02:51 AM

I love arguing with Moon Landing Conspiracy Theorists.

Besides all the material that explains and/or debunks every bit of evidence churned up in this toilet bowl of thought is my personal favorite argument: One that no one to this day has been able to refute (so go right ahead and try).

The problem with your theorythe underlying theory of all those who believe the absurd dreck spewed by the conspiracy theoristsis that the very thing that is the foundation of this argument, the necessity for the US to win the Space Race with the USSR, is fatally flawed.

For the US to successfully pull off not one but six Moon landings, the USSR would have had to have been a willing participant in the conspiracy.

You see, 000, theres this little thing called telemetry. All kinds of it was transmitted back to the Earth by the all of the spacecraft that went to the moon as well as much of the equipment that was left behind. I promise you that said telemetry was not a person to person call to the US. Nor was it all coded. Hobbyists with the right equipment could receive it. So, then, could the Soviets (and you can bet your ass that they did indeed listen in), and they would have known from where it was coming (the receivers on Earth or in orbit around it needed to be pointed in the correct direction).

Are you prepared to tell me that the Soviets wouldnt have called out the US if the whole thingand remember, there were eight flights to the moon with six out of seven having successful landingswas fake?

Why would they do that if winning the race to the Moon was so important (and it was)?

And no, 000, a satellite or a probe to the moon could not duplicate the data transmitted back to Earth without really smart people, like Soviet scientists, knowing it.

Twenty four men traveled to the Moon and twelve men walked on its surface. My father knew them all. They were/are all men of courage and integrity and to call them liars is ignorant beyond all possible description.

Dustin

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apoll ... index.html

http://www.clavius.org/
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Postby 000 » 07/21/09 06:50 AM

On the second disc the interviewer approaches several of the astronouts with a Bible and asks them to put their hand on it and swear they walked on the moon. None would.
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Postby Jim Maloney » 07/21/09 07:49 AM

000 wrote:On the second disc the interviewer approaches several of the astronouts with a Bible and asks them to put their hand on it and swear they walked on the moon. None would.


Well, you know, except for Gene Cernan and Edgar Mitchell.

Bart Sibrel, the "interviewer" you mentioned has been harassing the astronauts for a while now. He ambushes them at public events and arranges interviews under false pretenses. Buzz Aldrin punched him, and for good reason: he's an ass. Sibrel later admitted that he provoked Aldrin and sent him a letter of apology for the incident.

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Postby Ray Eden » 07/21/09 08:00 AM

And...

just for the fun of it...

one of the American astronauts and moon walkers, Dr. Edgar Mitchell, recently went on British radio and claimed he has first hand information regarding UFOs and alien contact with earth. He is a man of "courage and integrity and to call [him] a liar is ignorant beyond all possible description."

If we're using Dustin's criteria, than this is 100% true too. I wonder... does Dustin adhere to the belief of alien contact too? I'm not expressing an opinion one way or the other, just putting his criteria into perspective.

Read the article:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,390161,00.html

Listen to the interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhNdxdveK7c

P.S. This is by no means the first time that Mitchell has come forward with this story, but it became fodder for the papers again after the British radio interview.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 07/21/09 01:07 PM

Ray, my criteria remains intact. Clearly Dr. Mitchell is sincere in his belief in alien contact. He believes the scientists and intelligence people who have shared their data with him: Hes convinced (listen to the interview; nowhere does he say that he has had contact with anything other than these people).

Being wrongand I believe hes wrong (about contact; I have no doubt that there is life somewhere out there, I just dont believe theyve come here to Earth)about something is completely different from knowingly and willingly lying about it.

He experienced walking on the moon firsthand along with Al Shepard. He is neither wrong nor lying about it.

Dustin

PS: By the way, other astronauts as well as military and airline pilots have reported UFOs that have never been explained. UFO doesnt mean alien spaceship.
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Postby El Mystico » 07/21/09 02:23 PM

The thing that gets me about conspiracy theories is the same as what gets me about the baddys' islands/sites in the James Bond films.
To pull them off, both would need hundreds of people in on the secret. For the rest of their lives.
Those of us who work for large organisations know that is just not a practical option.
The money that could be made by someone who could say "this was faked, and here is the evidence" means that they couldn't be sustained.
How come Nixon allowed his corruption to be evident, yet the 'fake' Apollo landings didnt get exposed?

when conspiracy theories raise their heads,it always seems to me that individuals want or need to believe that the Government has powers and strengths that it simply doesn't have. In a strange way it is probably comforting. Sadly the reality is that governments, all across the world, are far too cr*p to sustain such conspiracies.

Looking at history, what major conspiracies have been maintained for over twenty years, let alone forty years?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/21/09 02:46 PM

Anyone who doesn't believe men walked on the moon is just a stupid f**king moron. Period. Go be an idiot someplace else.
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Postby P.T. Murphy » 07/21/09 02:59 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:Anyone who doesn't believe men walked on the moon is just a stupid f**king moron. Period. Go be an idiot someplace else.


A stupid f**king moron and just plain Un-American!!!
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will never find it. " -Roald Dahl
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Postby Ian Kendall » 07/21/09 03:13 PM

A couple of weeks ago en route to the inlaws in Spain I spent an afternoon with my wife's cousin. He started a conversation by asking if I thought the landings were true (I do) and then said that his new boss was one of the naysayers and started quoting the 'proofs' that had been put forward. After a while it became obvious that he believed it himself.

It was fun dismantling his arguements one by one. Especially since he's a barrister.

Take care, Ian
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Postby Necromancer » 07/21/09 03:46 PM

Mythbusters (on the Discovery Channel in the U.S.) had a good time with this:

Part One -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mefEKqzq8cg
Part Two -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfKItI-cHPM
Part Three -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOv_zvM-oJQ
Part Four -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCNV1hiKpLI
Part Five -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dTATMEJSuQ

Enjoy,
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Postby Ray Eden » 07/21/09 04:27 PM

As I mentioned... I wasn't stating my opinion one way or the other regarding the moon landing or alien life in general. I just found your statement to be a little over reaching. And I opened my comments with text that I hope would be understood to have been "tongue in cheek" - that is, "just for fun".

I think you'd be willing to agree with me that most people who talk about alien contact with planet earth are looked upon as kooks and nut jobs. All of a sudden, we're giving Mitchell the benefit of the doubt - he's mistaken - because he actually walked on the moon. Obviously, you do doubt his integrity regarding alien and human contact. This is my point... integrity is not all encompassing. Integrity has been destroy by far less.

Personally, I agree with you. I think its rather ridiculous to think that in all the vastness of space that we are the only "intelligent" life in the universe. But... I am extremely skeptical about UFO and alien contact (especially alien contact). And yes... U.F.O. means Unidentified Flying Object not alien spacecraft. Most are explainable, some could be explainable, but are most likely secret projects (the stealth bomber, for example) so left unexplained at least until the newer model goes into production and the "old technology" can be revealed and some - very few - have no apparent explanation. So UFOs make for good fun.

I was two years old when the first moon landing happened, and my mother tells me that I was glued to the old black and white during the whole thing. Great television!!! However... I'll admit that I liked the storyline of "CAPRICORN I" too, even though the acting was terrible.

And... I really don't mind the "no moon landing crowd" either. And point in fact, they are not un-American as has been suggested. They are actually exercising their constitutional right to question government. They may be wrong, but they have the right to be wrong! To call such people "un-American" is actually... well, un-American.

Now... I'm heading off to polish my pet moon rock. :-)
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Postby Ray Eden » 07/21/09 04:33 PM

Since this thread is titled Magic on the Moon... does anyone know if there is any reference of any of the astronauts doing any magic while in flight? A pointless question really... but has magic been done in space?
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Postby Necromancer » 07/21/09 04:44 PM

Neil Tobin, Necromancer
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http://SupernaturalChicago.com
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Postby AJM » 07/21/09 05:01 PM

Nice hair...

Anyways, has anyone done, say, Out of This World or perhaps something from the STARS of magic? How about 2001: An Ace Odyssey from The Paper Engine? Incidentally, is it possible to do a Gravity Half Pass in space? What about..
(Enough already - Ed)

Cheers

Andrew
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Postby Ray Eden » 07/21/09 05:03 PM

Well... there ya go. Making space matter by long distance mind control. Thanks for the reference.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 07/21/09 05:22 PM

Ray,

I do not believe that being wrong about something destroys ones integrity.

A perfect example is the different political ideologies of my best friend and me. We have vast political differences and we argue vehemently with each other over them. I think hes wrong. He thinks Im wrong. I think hes down right loopy with some of his beliefs. He thinks I need therapy. But we never question each others integrity. Im not giving him the benefit of the doubt; Id rather he see the light. But his honesty is beyond reproach.

Is it possible that in the last couple of decadesor whenever he began to be convinced such alien contact is factualthat Dr. Mitchell has gone off the deep end? Its sad to say, but I think so. But I will not question his integrity.

And I fully agree with you regarding the uncalled for un-American comment. But neither is it un-American. Just like the Moon Landing conspiracy theories, its just ignorant.

Dustin

PS: I met Mr. Garriott at the AMA Awards. I could have listened to him for hours about his experience. He gave me a mission patch from his trip and it is in my magic collection and not with my NASA stuff.
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Postby Q. Kumber » 07/21/09 05:25 PM

A while back I was talking with John Bowden about the possibility of communicating with alien species. He asked, "Of all the species on this planet, with how many do we communicate intelligently?"
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 07/21/09 05:50 PM

Which is whyas Carl Sagan did in his book Contactsuch communication will be via mathematics; the only truly universal language.
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Postby Q. Kumber » 07/21/09 06:25 PM

Only this morning I was having a conversation with a cow in Algebra! :)
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Postby Ray Eden » 07/21/09 06:43 PM

Speaking of Space... at the moment, we're experiencing a beautiful light show in the skies of Finland.
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Postby Ray Eden » 07/21/09 06:47 PM

Dustin Stinett wrote:And I fully agree with you regarding the uncalled for un-American comment. But neither is it un-American. Just like the Moon Landing conspiracy theories, its just ignorant.


I view it as un-American because the writer is denying this person's Constitutional right to a free voice. Hope that clarifies my usage of the word "un-American". When seeking to close down someones freedom of speech it goes beyond ignorant.
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Postby P.T. Murphy » 07/21/09 07:27 PM

Using the term "un-American" is ignorant and uncalled for? But the use of the term "stupid [censored] moron" goes without notice? TWICE? I love this forum!!! And the crazy bastards that post here! Long live the right to free speech!
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will never find it. " -Roald Dahl
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/21/09 08:06 PM

Here's the line in the sand:

If you don't believe that man has walked on the moon you're an idiot. You're free to hold your belief, but you're an idiot. Do youself a favor and check yourself into a mental asylum and get some anti-psychotic drugs.

It has nothing to do with being American or un-American ... it's simply a question of stupidity.

Go watch the [censored] movie Capricorn One, pop a woodie when the astronauts are being photographed on that big film set when they're supposed to be in outer space, and have some fun in an internet chat room talking with your other dumb-ass friends about the fact that man never landed on the moon. Just don't do it here.

You gotta love that clip of Buzz Aldrin punching that idiot in the face:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/2 ... 41664.html
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Postby Richard Stokes » 07/21/09 08:42 PM

I vaguely remember a suspense thriller based on the unusual idea that America cleverly faked the A-bomb explosions over Japan. They actually dropped conventional explosives laced with radioactive material. The aim, I guess, was world hegemony, based on a non-existent weapon of mass destruction.
At some stage, they brought Russia into the deal.
And that's why there was no real chance of any nuclear holocaust!
Time to call up agents Mulder and Scully...
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Postby Nathan Muir » 07/21/09 09:16 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOo6aHSY8hU

These truthers are total [censored]. Considering that NASA had to switch the video feed to the Honeysuckle Creek observatory in Tidbinbilla, it would have been a pretty amazing trick to fool a bunch of scientists on the other side of the world who were pointing a huge radio telescope at the moon and were RECEIVING audio and video from the moon. Kind of hard to fake that, conspiracy-theory [censored]!
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Postby Kent Gunn » 07/21/09 09:31 PM

Three of the Apollo missions and a couple of the Soviet probes left retro reflectors on the moon. You need a huge telescope and a pretty tightly focused monochromatic light source but . . .

The laser light bounces back. We've measured the distance to the moon with these things time and time again.

Did the goddamn pixies leave those things on the moon, or maybe . . . it was the astronauts.

WTF . . .
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Postby David Alexander » 07/22/09 12:18 AM

What is amusing about the moon landing "hoax" is that conspiracy theorists always have "proof" in the form of DVDs and books to sell to the suckers and the mentally deficient. They make a comfortable living off of human gullibility.

This hustle sits alongside the holocaust deniers, Face on Mars yo-yos, the Hollow Earth believers and numerous other wacky theories promoted by guys who cant get real jobs but are smart enough to con the fools of the world. Sorry to see some of those fools posting here.

I had the pleasure of congratulating Buzz Aldrin at a party at the late Majel Roddenberrys home shortly after he socked the idiot who had been harassing him. Buzz and the other astronauts put their lives on the line. Not all the astronauts made it through the program.

Last year I was at a private luncheon for the trustees of the Adler Planetarium. I was looking at an exhibit of the Mars Rover when I felt someone standing next to me. I turned to my left and a very exhuberant man stuck out his hand and said, "Hi. I'm Jim Lovell." I shook his hand gladly and said, "Wow, you sure are."

I've met dozens of actors, movie stars, writers, producers, so-called "celebrities," but Buzz and Jim were the genuine article...real American heros.

To denigrate what they did and what the entire team of scientists and engineers accomplished because a few idiots want to make money from the fools of the world is sad and wrong.
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Postby rkosby » 07/22/09 12:33 AM

I watched a FOX special on the Moon Landing being a myth in 2001. I didn't even know people believed this until that special. One of their "proofs" was a moon photo where the plus signs on the lens were supposedly behind the image instead of in front of it. I downloaded the photo from several sources and blew up the images on my computer. It was an optical illusion caused by very close shades of gray. The plus signs were in front as expected. My first thought was if someone with a home computer could figure this out in a couple of minutes, the people who put the show together probably knew it too. The real conspiracy was the cast and crew of that documentary misrepresenting the truth.

Ray
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Postby rkosby » 07/22/09 12:43 AM

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Postby Nathan Muir » 07/22/09 12:56 AM

000 wrote:On the second disc the interviewer approaches several of the astronouts with a Bible and asks them to put their hand on it and swear they walked on the moon. None would.


Because he's a f**king [censored] conspiracy nut you wouldn't piss on if he was burning.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 07/22/09 03:14 AM

Okay, let's please knock of the crap talk. Generally speaking, isn't it better to behave in a more civilized manner than those you are criticizing?

Just a thought.

As for those astronauts who refuse to swear on a bible, isn't it possible that they are agnostic or atheist (several are/were)? Taking an oath on a bible is meaningless to them. So why not swear on it if they've already been lying for 40 years or so?

If they are at all religious and their conscience prevents them from doing it, then why have they not cleansed their souls completely by admitting their sin?

All that scene proves is that some astronauts will not give the filmmaker the time of day.

Dustin
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Postby 000 » 07/22/09 06:33 AM

Thank you RK for calling me a stupid f#####moron.
Further to your advices to go elsewhere Id be happy to do so. Do you offer ( partial ) refunds on subscriptions or no such luck? I must hasten to add that this choice largely came about by the sad news that you won't be publishing anymore books about dead people, but hey, there you go.
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Postby magicam » 07/22/09 06:45 AM

An entertaining and informative thread.

If memory serves, I helped my father manufacture semiconductors which were used for some of the Apollo missions. Can you imagine that? A pre-pubescent kid doing the epoxy work on those fragile little wafers? In fact, I think most of the work I did was for the Apollo 13 mission.

By the way, the they-didnt-really-land-on-the-moon theorists have ignored one glaring reality: what about the restaurant that opened on the moon? The critics were almost unanimous in their reviews: great food, but no atmosphere.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 07/22/09 06:48 AM

Heh. Back in the 80's the student bar in Edinburgh University's halls of residence was known as the moon for that exact reason...
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 07/22/09 10:11 AM

000 wrote:Thank you RK for calling me a stupid f#####moron.

Hey, if the post fits...
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Postby Eoin O'hare » 07/22/09 12:47 PM

Quentin Reynolds wrote:Only this morning I was having a conversation with a cow in Algebra! :)

Bull.
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Postby 000 » 07/22/09 01:43 PM

A 1999 Gallop Poll found that 6% of the American public doubted the moon landings, which skepticism according to Fox Television increased to 20% after the showing of it's Feb 2001 special, viewed by some 15 million people.
In 2009 a poll conducted by the British Engineering and Technical Magazine found that 25% did not believe man has walked on the moon.
Now you'd have to agree thats a whole lot of morons.
So RK, reach for the mouthwash and act in a more respectful manner to those whose opinion you disagree with.
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Postby Mark Collier » 07/22/09 01:59 PM

If those statistics are true, then I agree.
There are a whole lot of morons :)
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Postby Ian Kendall » 07/22/09 02:16 PM

All that shows is that 14% of people will accept something they are spoonfed in a TV show, rather than think about the facts in an analytical way.

A couple of years ago I was working for a science outreach event in Paisley (a small town in West Scotland). A man came up to me, asked if I was a scientist and then started to rant about the attack on the twin towers. He, too, was parroting something that had been on TV a few weeks earlier, and the arguements he put forward were all ones with which I was familiar.

I started to explain rationally the facts behind his case, and even managed to quote a couple of studies on it. When he then _shouted_ 'who made these reports - EXPERTS?' I remembered the old adage about arguing with idiots and mentally confirmed Paisley as the Darwinian sink hole of Scotland. At this point his wife, who until now had been standing quietly behind her husband leaned in and shouted at me 'it was BOMBS!'

When people with limited capacity for rational thought are given information in a sensationalist manner conspiracies are born. Some are entertaining, some are a waste of time.

Take care, Ian
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