Tamariz...the new Vernon?

Discuss the historical aspects of magic, including memories, or favorite stories.

Postby Chris Deleo » 07/12/09 09:04 AM

I think about this a lot...who is this generation's Dai Vernon. Jaun Tamariz seems to fit all the requirements. Vernon was a pied piper; wherever he settled, magicians came. Tamariz has that same mystical aura around him, that same x-factor that makes us get up and move. He typifies not only what it means to be a magician, but what it means to be an artist.

One gets the feeling Tamariz, like Vernon, chose magic as a means of expression, but that their decision was entirely irrelevant because had they chose painting, filmmaking, or writing, "some other group" would have been hailing their virtuosity.

Of course, we thank them for choosing magic...

It's impossible to have these discussions without heated debate; opinions will always vary. But I just wanted to put it out there because I think about it a lot
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 07/12/09 12:10 PM

I think about this a lot...who is this generation's Dai Vernon.


The cafe beckons.

"Whit Hayden" wrote:Asking who the modern day Vernon or the current Houdini is--is, well, silly. It is the kind of question only asked by those who knew none of the names in question.

Who is today's Al Jolson? Who is the new Louis Armstrong? Is Springsteen still the new Bob Dylan?

Vernon was one of a kind. What he did does not need to be done again. He was not the new Hofsinzer or the new Erdnase. He was Vernon--a fascinating and difficult man who made a huge contribution to the art of magic.

Like Prometheus, he brought us fire from the gods--magic that would not be still here with us today had Vernon not existed. Much of it was original, much was learned from the masters of the Golden Age, and everything had his thought, touch, and imprint on it.

Billy McComb, Johnny Thompson and the others mentioned here are giants in their own right, and not just "the closest thing to Vernon."

They have made their own unique contributions to the art of magic.

It is impertinent and presumptuous to use such language, and I sincerely doubt that any of the people mentioned so far would appreciate being nominated for such a "title."
--Pop Haydn
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Postby Chris Deleo » 07/12/09 01:25 PM

I agree

Genetically and Historically speaking, there will never be another Vernon.

But this isn't what I'm asking. The forth paragraph of your quote is what I'm getting at
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 07/12/09 01:29 PM

Did you read the whole quote?

Your reply suggests to me that perhaps you did did not get the full meaning of Whit's very smart take on this sort of question.
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Postby Magic Randy » 07/12/09 01:53 PM

I too agree with Whit. Dai Vernon was one of a kind.
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Postby Chris Deleo » 07/12/09 02:03 PM

maybe I should rephrase my question: Is there one magician who could inspire you to relocate geographically for the chance to study under him?

and why...
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Postby David Alexander » 07/12/09 02:04 PM

I support Whit's take on the silliness of the question.

The world that Vernon was born into and grew up in, the magicians that he was exposed to and with whom he associated and watched in vaudeville no longer exists. It was gone before World War II.

In one of Christopher's history books he mentions that there were 4,000 magicians who worked vaudeville over its history. I presume that both Europe and English music halls had thousands as well, most of whom we will never know much about. That means a lot of working professionals saw and influenced each other in large and small ways. There was a different synergy back then.

That and amateur magic had a small population with books and apparatus being expensive and hard to get. The dissemination of magic knowledge was limited and slow to spread, unlike today where it proliferates, often at the speed of light. Today amateur magic has a different demographic and was not coming of age as it was in the 1920s, 30s, and 40s.

It's a very different world today. Vernon, like those who came before, his contemporaries, and those who followed were unique, products of their time, environment, and individual psychology.

I would not equate Vernon with Prometheus as he was primarily influential in the amateur magic community. There were magicians who were far more influential in the professional realm - first Cardini and then Channing Pollock changed the look and approach of review-type acts along with Benny Chavez who trained a number of similar performers as he took advantage of the GI Bill; Thurston changed the look and feel of the big magic show when he took over Kellar's show; Dunninger inspired generations of mentalists with his one-man approach, etc.

Read more magic history, Chris and you'll come up with better questions.
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 07/12/09 02:17 PM

Chris Deleo wrote:maybe I should rephrase my question: Is there one magician who could inspire you to relocate geographically for the chance to study under him?

and why...

That's not really much clearer (or less silly). It's one (very small) step removed from "Tell me your favorite magicians".

Do a search on any forum (once again, the cafe is particularly rife with this), and you'll likely find that this particular ground has been well trodden.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/12/09 02:28 PM

Chris(D) - you can find lots about what you are asking to discuss over at the magic cafe. Here's a link: www.themagiccafe.com Folks here tend to be way past the idolizing and search for mentors and some actually recall less than flattering things about those who others seek to idolize.

Chris (A) Some folks leak over here from the cafe - same newbie posts and lack of book/mentor education. The issue is how we treat them.

Best wishes,

Jon
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Postby Chris Deleo » 07/12/09 02:45 PM

Ouch...you guys are rough.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/12/09 02:53 PM

Chris Deleo wrote:Ouch...you guys are rough.


Go play in the Erdnase thread.
Mundus vult decipi
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Postby Chris Deleo » 07/12/09 03:08 PM

who's Erdnase?
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 07/12/09 03:28 PM

Chris Deleo wrote:Ouch...you guys are rough.

Sorry if it came off that way.

I was hoping that the Whit Hayden post would put that sort of thing in context for you. Barring that, I thought it perhaps useful to point you to a place (cafe) where you could better find what you seem to be looking for.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/12/09 03:32 PM

Chris Aguilar wrote:
Chris Deleo wrote:Ouch...you guys are rough.

Sorry if it came off that way.

I was hoping that the Whit Hayden post would put that sort of thing in context for you. Barring that, I thought it perhaps useful to point you to a place (cafe) where you could better find what you seem to be looking for.


Chris - you missed it - the troll tell. If they were just a dolt they would have asked "What's Erdnase"
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 07/12/09 03:42 PM

Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Chris - you missed it - the troll tell. If they were just a dolt they would have asked "What's Erdnase"

Right.
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Postby David Alexander » 07/12/09 05:19 PM

Chris Deleo wrote:who's Erdnase?


Dead guy from Montana. Didn't you get the memo?
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Postby Tom Dobrowolski » 07/12/09 05:50 PM

Chris Deleo wrote:who's Erdnase?


The new Vernon?
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/12/09 05:57 PM

What next - you gonna explain the joke?

Next troll please
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Postby Nathan Muir » 07/12/09 08:00 PM

Tamariz is the new Vernon? Someone call Carney and tell him someone beat him to it.
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Postby Tom Stone » 07/13/09 03:05 AM

Who has pets named after Vernon?
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Postby erlandish » 07/13/09 03:36 AM

Didn't Tamariz himself refer to Ascanio as Spain's answer to Vernon?
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Postby David Alexander » 07/13/09 09:36 AM

If Ascanio was the answer, what was the question?

Can this get any sillier?

Apparently, the answer is yes.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 07/13/09 12:36 PM

My Cocker Spaniel is named Depth Illusion.
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Postby Joe Pecore » 07/13/09 12:54 PM

Pete McCabe wrote:My Cocker Spaniel is named Depth Illusion.

Did Ed used to call him "Tilt" ? ;)
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Postby Terry » 07/13/09 06:57 PM

Joe Pecore wrote:
Pete McCabe wrote:My Cocker Spaniel is named Depth Illusion.

Did Ed used to call him "Tilt" ? ;)


Which version?
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Postby Pete McCabe » 07/13/09 08:13 PM

I call my Dad Dad, after the Dad Stevens cull.
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