R.I.P. Michael Jackson

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Postby greg manwaring » 06/25/09 07:42 PM

I actually storyboarded Michael performing a proposed illusion designed by David Copperfield for Michael's tour in 91 or 92. I didn't see the tour so don't know if that illusion was in there.

I also remember Michael Ammar teaching him some magic privately. I suppose other magicians on here did the same thing, as well as probably performed privately for him.
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Postby Tom Dobrowolski » 06/25/09 08:06 PM

Dustin Stinett wrote:Setting all controversy aside, the man was a remarkable talent. He was also among the first pop/rock stars to use magical illusions (versus special effects) on their tours (Earth, Wind, & Fire, Alice Cooper), so he was indeed a friend to magic. And of course, Ed Alonzo was working with him on this new tour, so its a shame for Ed in that regard.

Its been a tough couple of weeks for the entertainment industry: Keith Carradine, Ed McMahon, Farrah Fawcett (this morning), and now MJ.

Dustin


I think you meant David Carradine....
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Postby Mark Paulson » 06/25/09 08:18 PM

There are rumors that Jeff Goldblum died today in New Zealand. Not yet confirmed...

http://www.manolith.com/2009/06/25/jeff ... red-death/
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 06/25/09 09:02 PM

That would be bizarre if true, but no more bizarre than the fact that despite not being a superstitious person, these sorts of celebrity deaths do seem to come in groups of three.
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Postby Donal Chayce » 06/25/09 09:04 PM

The Goldblum thing was a hoax.
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Postby Mark Lewis » 06/25/09 09:18 PM

I am sorry to hear this. I gave Michael Jackson a psychic reading once. I still have a copy of the tape. I must listen to it again.

Controversy aside he was very talented.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 06/25/09 09:26 PM

Tom Dobrowolski wrote:I think you meant David Carradine....

I did. Thanks!
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Postby Steve Bryant » 06/25/09 09:44 PM

For the week, Ed McMahon makes three. Enough!
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Postby Nicholas Carifo » 06/26/09 12:02 AM

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/michael-jacks ... rest/24344

From US Magazine Online:

"Michael Jackson's close friend Uri Geller still can't fathom that the King of Pop has died. 'I'm devastated. I just don't want to believe it,' he told Usmagazine.com when reached by phone Thursday evening."
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Postby jason156 » 06/26/09 12:59 AM

What irony. Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson dying on the same day. Farrah was every little boy's fantasy, and every little boy was Michael's fantasy.
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Postby Richard Perrin » 06/26/09 02:30 AM

I remember watching him do the performing during the Halftime of the Superbowl. I knew he didn't flew himself out of the field!
R.I.P. M. Jackson
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Postby greg manwaring » 06/26/09 02:54 AM

He must have foretold it. He should have warned Michael.
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Postby Francesca Moffet » 06/26/09 05:19 AM

Personally speaking I have never considered Uri Geller to be a magician.

It was a tad strange watching him do a Q & A session at International Magic last year. I've always considered him to be an entertainer rather than a magician.
Love and magic have a great deal in common. They enrich the soul, and they both take practice.
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Postby 000 » 06/26/09 06:26 AM

As much as wacko's interaction with young boys can only be described as wholly inappropiate (sharing a bed with a 12 yr old) this c/would account for his $20 million settlement.

Which doesnt make him a child molester or pedophile.
But I reckon his face risked falling apart before reaching old age anyway.
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Postby Dale Shrimpton » 06/26/09 06:47 AM

greg manwaring wrote:I actually storyboarded Michael performing a proposed illusion designed by David Copperfield for Michael's tour in 91 or 92. I didn't see the tour so don't know if that illusion was in there.

I also remember Michael Ammar teaching him some magic privately. I suppose other magicians on here did the same thing, as well as probably performed privately for him.


i did.I recall the Ilusion work quite well. There was the jet pack switch, and a rather cool floating vanishing glass coffin during thriller,which finished up with MJ appearing way above the stage in a plume of smoke.

the staging for thriller was "busy" with dancers, and multi puppet skelingtons, roaming around in the u.v gloom.
Lovely stuff.

M.j. His art, a masterpiece.. His life, no oil painting. :)
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Postby Mark Lewis » 06/26/09 07:43 AM

That last sentence of Francesca's was quite funny. Think about it............
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 06/26/09 07:54 AM

Reading the news - had an auditory accompaniment - it was as if a ghost chorus of older children materialized singing "we are the world, we are the children". My feelings remain as mixed as the message of that song for the knowing.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 06/26/09 10:37 AM

I merged the two MJ threads into one because one is more than enough.

Thanks,
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Postby Bill Mullins » 06/26/09 10:45 AM

The guy was a freak, and it's quite possible that his kids' lives will be better with him out of the picture.

Jackson had the patent on a leaning illusion that was used in his "Smooth Criminal" video. I've seen Krystyn Lambert do a similar effect on "Masters of Illusion".

HERE
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 06/26/09 11:18 AM

Thats pretty interesting considering the illusion (and basic method) goes back aboutif not more thana century.

My wife was pretty cheesed off yesterday. She was unhappy that the news of that freak shows death overshadowed that of a good and courageous woman [Farrah Fawcett]. My only consolation to her was that they probably werent on the same escalatorif you know what I mean.

Im tired of hearing about him already. I swear, this morning instead of telling me what floor I was on, the talking elevator in my building asked me if Id heard about MJ.

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Postby Tom Frame » 06/26/09 11:48 AM

Richard Kaufman wrote:I don't morn for child molesters, no matter how talented they are. (And before you remind me that he was acquitted, I'll remind you that he paid the boy's family 20 million bucks. You don't do that when you're innocent.)


I agree completely. I've treated numerous child victims of abuse. Witnessing the devastating impact it has on them is heartbreaking.

Jackson did much more harm than good. I rejoice that we have one less predator to worry about.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 06/26/09 12:00 PM

Dustin Stinett wrote:Thats pretty interesting considering the illusion (and basic method) goes back aboutif not more thana century.


That's why lawyers (including patent lawyers) get the big bucks.

Jackson's patent may only include tweaks to the basic idea, or maybe the basic idea was never patented, and so "prior art" wasn't setting a precedent.
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Postby Charles Spector » 06/26/09 12:10 PM

Richard,

Famous people die in threes because when the fourth one dies they start at one again.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 06/26/09 12:18 PM

BTW, Google Patents is an interesting place to search for magic stuff. Useful search terms include "illusion apparatus", "tenyo", "Mark Setteducati", "Pressley H. Guitar", "Houdini", "coin magic", "card magic", etc.
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Postby IrishMagicNews » 06/26/09 12:46 PM

Here is a link to an interview with Uri Geller on Sky News talking about the death of his friend Michael Jackson.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/video/ ... rchresults

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Postby IrishMagicNews » 06/26/09 12:50 PM

I have just found the full on interview on youtube.

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO3GnIkfa6c

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxv5Kb_9Pow

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Postby Roger M. » 06/26/09 12:55 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:I don't morn for child molesters, no matter how talented they are. (And before you remind me that he was acquitted, I'll remind you that he paid the boy's family 20 million bucks. You don't do that when you're innocent.)


Nor do I...not for a second.

Singing and dancing well or being famous isn't a free ticket to molest kids, although for some California juries, it seems it's a "Get Out of Jail" card.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 06/26/09 08:56 PM

Let's hope he's not just undead.
From pop icon to boogie man... I start to wonder.

In the man's own words - perhaps now better understood:

This magic music grooves me, that dirty rhythm fools me
The devil's gotten to me through this dance
I'm full of funky fever, a fire burns inside me
Boogie's got me in a super trance

....
Don't you blame it (Sunshine)
You just gotta (Moonlight)
You just wanna (Good times)
Yeah, oh (Boogie)

Blame it on yourself (Sunshine)
Ain't nobody's fault (Moonlight)
But yours and that boogie (Good times)
All night long (Boogie)

Can't stop that boogie (Sunshine)
Ain't nobody's fault (Moonlight)
But yours and that boogie (Good times)
Dancin' all night long (Boogie)

Blame it on yourself (Sunshine)
Ain't nobody's fault (Moonlight)
But yours and that boogie, boogie, boogie (Good times)
All night long (Boogie)


He came so close to being peter pan.
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Postby Richard Stokes » 06/27/09 07:22 AM

Some years ago I saw Frontline's brilliant analysis of the Little Rascals child abuse case. I was astounded by how a modern judicial system could issue life sentences against innocent people based on zero evidence.
Most chilling was the prosecuting zealot - a beautiful trendy lawyer - who came so close to destroying all their lives.
A similar miscarriage of justice happened in Outreau, France very recently.
So, without hard evidence, I think we should be careful about branding Jackson as a criminal pedophile.
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Postby AJM » 06/27/09 07:57 AM

How very interesting JT....

however, the fact the the lyrics to that song were not Michael Jackson's own words immediately renders your wistful post redundant.

The song was written in 1978 by (German born) Mick Jackson, David Jackson and Elmar Krohn.

And Richard - MJ freely admitted in the televised interview with Martin Bashir that he shared his bed with young boys so I think we should be careful about branding him entirely innocent.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 06/27/09 09:06 AM

AJM wrote:How very interesting JT....

...your wistful post redundant...


It just seemed a way to separate the media/projection issues from any feelings about the passing of a person - reframing his image in terms of other cultural icons. The old robot/teenage vampire movies this summer seemed a pertinent.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 06/27/09 01:35 PM

Without concrete evidence - and a definitive finding by a court of law - you make enormous leaps in your assumptions in branding MJ guilty of a crime.

By all means have your suspicions - and disagree with due legal process - but none of us are in any position to play the role of judge and find the man guilty.

He was clearly disturbed and out of touch with reality - but that does not necessarily make him guilty.

On a separate note - Ed Alonzo talks about the show rehearsals:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/ne ... 9249.story

Ethical question - for those who categorically believe MJ was guilty, is Ed Alonzo then wrong for accepting the job ? Or is a paying job a paying job no questions asked ?
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 06/27/09 01:57 PM

He was clearly disturbed and out of touch with reality - ...
Bingo. And all that personal stuff aside - he was a talented performer and missed by many.
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Postby erdnasephile » 06/27/09 02:04 PM

Richard Stokes wrote:Some years ago I saw Frontline's brilliant analysis of the Little Rascals child abuse case. I was astounded by how a modern judicial system could issue life sentences against innocent people based on zero evidence.
Most chilling was the prosecuting zealot - a beautiful trendy lawyer - who came so close to destroying all their lives.
A similar miscarriage of justice happened in Outreau, France very recently.
So, without hard evidence, I think we should be careful about branding Jackson as a criminal pedophile.


Another case that comes to mind is the McMartin Preschool case from the 1980's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial as well as the more recent Duke Lacrosse Team fiasco.

IMHO, Jackson was grossly inappropriate in the ways he admitted to interacting with kids (sleepovers, etc.) and appeared to be deeply disturbed based on his own words and weird public behavior. There is circumstantial evidence that certainly raises suspicions of wrong doing.

I am certainly no fan of Mr. Jackson's admitted behavior. I deal with victims of violent crime on a daily basis, and have seen first hand the destruction the type of behavior we are discussing can have and I HATE it. Even the hint of impropriety towards a child makes me angry.

However, my sense of justice and fairness compels me to agree with Mr. Stokes here, until hard evidence presents to the contrary.
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Postby AJM » 06/27/09 02:18 PM

Craig Mitchell wrote:Without concrete evidence - and a definitive finding by a court of law - you make enormous leaps in your assumptions in branding MJ guilty of a crime.


I'm assuming you're responding to someone else's post...as you clearly haven't read mine and those immediately preceding (nor indeed watched the Bashir interview).

Cheers

Andrew
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Postby Roger M. » 06/27/09 02:47 PM

"concrete evidence" as used in the above post is a subjective term. I have seen or read enough "concrete evidence" to be comfortable not mourning Jackson's passing.

O.J. Simpson also failed to be convicted by a jury despite overwhelming evidence that he committed the crimes.
Not being convicted is no indication that a person is innocent.

Paying a child (the first molestation case) $20,000,000.00 in order not to be taken to court and face charges of child molestation should be seen as the admission of guilt that it actually was.

There are far more worthy people in this world that deserve (and get) my sympathies in their passing.
No matter how much "good" Jackson did in his life offsets the fact that a he is an unrepentant child molester.

The children he bought (and called his own) are far safer today than they were a few days ago.

Men who purchase children outright (Jackson) usually do so for very different reasons than women who purchase children outright (Madonna).

In Jackson's case, and in light of his multiple child molestation charges and allegations, the children he purchased are already in a far better place than they were in, regardless of what legal wranglings there might be down the road to determine who will now raise them. Anybody in that family raising them will be better than Michael Jackson raising them.

More so than the singing and dancing on "Thriller", those three kids are all that really matter now in terms of Jackson's contributions to the world.
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Postby Richard Stokes » 06/27/09 03:49 PM

Bashir's selective 'documentary' was heavily discredited in the UK.
Michael was able to produce additional footage, damaging Bashir's credibility as an 'investigative journalist'.
Overall, I find Bashir's methods questionable and unethical.
He comes across as a manipulative and unscrupulous sycophant.

Later, Bashir conveniently refused to answer certain questions at the trial.
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Postby Mark Lewis » 06/27/09 08:17 PM

Paying out a lot of money to make something go away is not evidence to me. It is well known that Michael Jackson had a habit of overspending. He always thought he had more money than he actually had. I can quite see him paying someone off for a bit of peace and quiet.

I believe it backfired on him because it set a precedent. Somebody else saw that he paid up and was probably hoping for the same results.So they accused him and it got nowhere. He was found NOT GUILTY despite all the prejudical pre trial publicity and people here seem to forget that.

I have never thought he had anything to do with the accusations. He was just far too open and naive for that.

I predicted that he would be acquitted and I was correct.
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Postby Matt Sedlak » 06/27/09 10:21 PM

Oj was acquitted...and since he has damn near admitted to doing it since then..

If someone without Jackson's fame had admitted the things he did and stood trial my guess is that the outcome would have been different. We have a history in this country of letting certain people get away with things which is unfortunate. Thankfully that trend has been declining a bit.

It is possible he is innocent but being acquitted is no more proof that someone is innocent than being convicted is proof that someone is guilty. Personally I find it hard to combine the things Jackson said together and his actions, with the history of accusations and not think there is something odd going on. But given my own past I admit to being biased on the matter.

I'll never understand the importance we attribute to our celebrities. Why someone who merely entertains us is so important that he "shuts down the internet" when he dies but some great teachers who make an incredible difference in some children's lives go unnoticed. It's the nature of the beast but it reminds me of how silly we are that the news of an entertainers death essentially drowns out the news about the tons of actually important things that are happening in the world.

That said, I overheard this joke earlier today and thought I would share: When Farrah Fawcett died she went to heaven and God said to her, "Farrah you have lead such a good life. I will grant you any wish you want." Farrah replied, "I want all the boys and girls of the world to be safe."
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Postby Mark Lewis » 06/27/09 10:58 PM

I think two things would improve the American judicial system. One is the strict application of the Sub Judice rule which is the norm in the United Kingdom.
And the other is the adoption of the Scottish verdict of "Not Proven" which really means "We think you did it but we can't prove it so we will reluctantly have to let you off"
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