NOW ONLINE: FULL ACCESS TO GENII 1936 to 1998

Discuss general aspects of Genii.

Postby Guest » 10/04/06 01:21 PM

Will there ever be an option to download whole issues for a set rate per issue?
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Postby Guest » 10/04/06 01:45 PM

Are there any plans to add the volumes from 1999 onwards?

I appreciate that there might need to be a lag time of maybe 12 months or so. Maybe more recent volumes could be available to Genii subscribers only. It seems like a great opprotunity to keep the database up to date.
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Postby Guest » 10/04/06 01:50 PM

I can't see why the newer issues would be available in the database when there are hard copy back issues available at a fair price directly from Genii.

Perhaps as those back issues sell out, they could be added to the archive.
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Postby Guest » 10/04/06 01:50 PM

Its starting to feel a lot like Christmas.
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Postby Guest » 10/04/06 02:33 PM

Many other journals and newspapers provide electronic access to current issues. Since the system is now in place at Genii it would make a lot of sense to provide free electronic access to subscribers and perhaps even a purely electronic subscription for a lower price.

All of this would be very easy to setup, since Genii's pre-press is PDF. Look what Magicseen offers. You can buy single issues as PDFs. That's cool. Halleluja! They get it and offer very easy access to their journal. Their subscription will increase, their cost decrease, they will make more profit to plow back into an even better magazine. I wish more would get it. At least Genii is offering access to digital back issues. That's a good start. I hope Richard goes a few steps further.

Best,
Chris
Lybrary.com preserving one bit at a time.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/04/06 05:18 PM

Answers to questions:

1) Thanks for your business advice Mr. Wasshuber, fortunately most people would be glad you're not the editor of Genii. At this point in time, most people want a magazine that's beautifully printed, that they can hold in their hands, and is easy to read and carry around.
(Please don't respond to this statement as I'm ALREADY tired of your response and I haven't even read it yet.)

2) Mr. Kendall: Yes, memberships will be upgradeable.

3) There is no download limit, but I will create one if I find people using technology to download the entire file or simply delete that person's membership.

4) As far as how long the database will be up, it should be at least 10 years. You'll just have to trust me on that one. Plenty of thought has been given to the issue, contrary to Mr. Wasshuber's statement.

5) Mr. Aguilar: There will be no option to download single issues, however you can purchase the original copies of many single issues from our office. I've thought about periodically adding newer out-of-print issues to the archive, but haven't decided about that--probably not.

6) Mr. Evans: there are no plans to offer any additional years of Genii online. Nothing past the Larsen years, which ended in 1998. We have lots of back issues to sell from 1999 onward.

7) Mr. Wasshuber: I think Magicseen is making a mistake offering digital downloads of its magazine--but that's something for their editors to find out. Since you have no experience that I know of as a hard-copy publisher, perhaps you'll leave the expertise in that area to those of us who've been doing it for almost 30 years.

Any other questions?
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Postby Guest » 10/04/06 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:

5) Mr. Aguilar: There will be no option to download single issues, however you can purchase the original copies of many single issues from our office. I've thought about periodically adding newer out-of-print issues to the archive, but haven't decided about that--probably not.
Right. Thanks for the heads up on this.

I had totally forgotten that you also have Larson era back issues for sale. Will a price list for those older issues eventually be posted up on the back issues page?
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Postby Guest » 10/04/06 05:32 PM

I have two questions.
First (And forgive me if this is a silly question) but will you be able to print the pages/issues and if not will this feature become available in the future? (Possibly with an added cost.)

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
We will log all IPs and periodically check that only the logged IP is using the system. Anyone found allowing others to use his or her password will be immediately deleted from the sytem and no refunds will be given for such violations.
What if you go on vacation or, like yourself, travel a great deal. Obviously if regularly access the database from, say, Toronto and you find yourself on vacation in England there would be different IP's.
Would there be some system in place where you could notify the person running the database with travel plans so that they know that this particular person will be accessing from this part of the world during this particular time period?

Thanks in advance.

Gord
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/04/06 06:36 PM

Gord: You can print any page. They open as pdfs via Adobe Acrobat and you just hit the print or save buttons to do what you want.

The small amount of time I spend traveling won't be a hinderence.

Chris: I do have an actual list of all the physical Larsen back issues we have. I haven't yet found time to edit and proofread the list, which is why it isn't on the website yet.
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Postby Guest » 10/04/06 06:47 PM

I second Gord's question, Richard, which I'm not quite sure you answered with your last post.

In my case, I use several different internet cafes (there are about ten on on one of the main streets near by) and of course often use a different computer even in the same cafe. Could allowances be made on a personal basis for this kind of thing?

Aside from that, this looks to be a wonderful resource.
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Postby Guest » 10/04/06 07:08 PM

I could be wrong (again!) but I have has access to Genii as a member of the Conjuring Arts Alexander Project.

Why would I want to pay another $200?
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 10/04/06 08:03 PM

Lucca,

Youre not wrong. As long as you are a member of Conjuring Arts, theres no reason to sign up for this service. But someone who wants just Genii and not everything else the CA offers, they have this option.

Dustin
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Postby Guest » 10/04/06 08:07 PM

Mr. Stinett,

You handle things like a true Gentleman.

We are all so lucky to have you as a part of this Forum.

Thank You
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 10/04/06 08:08 PM

Originally posted by Lucca Pacholi:
I could be wrong (again!) but I have has access to Genii as a member of the Conjuring Arts Alexander Project.

Why would I want to pay another $200?
The only reason why you might want to pay the $200 would be to ensure access for the lifetime of the DB. The Conjuring Arts memberships are only valid for one year, after which you need to renew. Aside from that, there's no reason to sign up for the Genii access, and I don't think anyone would suggest that you do.

-Jim
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/04/06 08:30 PM

Yes, the minimum yearly fee for joining The Conjuring Arts Research Center is $95. Two times that yearly fee will give you access to Genii for the life of the database, which I trust will be many years.
Each has its own benefits and you must decide not only which you can afford, but which suits your needs best.
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Postby Guest » 10/05/06 02:30 AM

Hi Richard

Any possibility of seeing a preview of one of the PDFs - would be interesting to check out quality et al ?

Thanks

Craig
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Postby Joe Pecore » 10/05/06 02:39 AM

Originally posted by Lucca Pacholi:
I could be wrong (again!) but I have has access to Genii as a member of the Conjuring Arts Alexander Project.
Does the Conjuring Arts have all the back issues? The web sites lists many as being missing:
http://www.conjuringlibrary.net/magcat/ ... earchtype=
Share your knowledge on the MagicPedia wiki.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 10/05/06 04:39 AM

Another caveat about IP addresses; many UK ISPs provide dynamic addressing, which means a single computer will likely have a different IP address each time it connects. Often the lease time is only an hour, so the same machine would have different addresses before and after lunch.

This may be the case overseas as well, but I have no experience with them.

Take care, Ian
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 10/05/06 06:10 AM

Originally posted by Joe Pecore:
Does the Conjuring Arts have all the back issues?
As far as I can tell, the full set of Larsen Geniis from 1936 through 1998 is available via Alexander. The link you provided lists the physical copies they possess.

As far as quality goes, I don't know if Richard will post a sample, but as someone who has been using Alexander since the beginning of the year, I can state with confidence that the quality is very high. Everything is readable, and the photos are clear. There are some issues with the OCR; it isn't any better or worse than other digital archives I've accessed. But it's not bad and shouldn't inhibit you from any research you might do.

-Jim
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Postby Guest » 10/05/06 07:48 AM

Richard,

Could you please clarify your answer to Gord's question? Specifically, if you're going to track access via IP address, how will you handle my accessing the database from home AND work AND possibly a hotel?

Just generically saying that you have a plan and I'll be able to do that is enough for me, I don't want you to waste your time on specifics.

By the way, congratulations on taking this step...I think it's a great idea.

Dan
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Postby Guest » 10/05/06 08:57 AM

As for Gord's question in the states this is more to this than just traveling. Many people are still using dial-up and not all high speed internet providers give static IP's. So there will be people who have a different IP everytime they log on. And as many others have stated if they use cyber cafe's and the like there are furthur issues. I think this question is very important for potential buyers and needs to be addressed.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/05/06 09:16 AM

I'll handle things on a case by case basis. Legitimate users have nothing to worry about.
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Postby Guest » 10/05/06 02:03 PM

So what you're saying is,

If we are a valid user with a good IP, you won't give us static...
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/05/06 03:09 PM

"If we are a valid user with a good IP, you won't give us static ..."

YES! Of course! Do you think I would go to all this trouble for nothing?
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Postby Guest » 10/05/06 03:49 PM

I wouldn't mind seeing the ability to download a single article all at once (even if it spans multiple pages that is). Any chance that could ever be? Or is the one page at a time thing pretty much set in stone?
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Postby Guest » 10/05/06 03:59 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Answers to questions:
1) Thanks for your business advice Mr. Wasshuber, fortunately most people would be glad you're not the editor of Genii.
I am not aspiring to be editor of Genii, nor would I be qualified to fill this position. Also, you seem to assume that editor is equal publisher, which is for many journals in general not the case. But I do have quite a bit of business experience as well as business education which more than qualifies me to comment on these issues. My intention is not to convince you of my argument, because that would be foolish for me to assume, but just to engage in a discussion where we all can learn something. Which I would hope is the purpose of this forum.

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
7) Mr. Wasshuber: I think Magicseen is making a mistake offering digital downloads of its magazine--but that's something for their editors to find out. Since you have no experience that I know of as a hard-copy publisher, perhaps you'll leave the expertise in that area to those of us who've been doing it for almost 30 years.
Time will tell. My bet is that Magicseen will ultimately grow their profit this way. They are expanding the market by making their product available in different ways. There is a significant customer segment which does not want to subscribe, but which is willing to buy single issues whenever they feel like it. Magicseen makes this easy. Some of these single issue buyers will like it so much that they will subscribe.

Oh BTW you wouldn't believe how much experience I have as journal publisher.

Best,
Chris....
Lybrary.com
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/05/06 05:07 PM

We have no way to create pdf files of single issues at the moment. So, yes, you'll have to print out or download the pdf one page at a time.
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Postby Guest » 10/05/06 05:15 PM

Just a note on IP. Unless you have your own server connected via a permanent connection, your IP is likely to change frequently. And since I would assume that pretty much everybody uses some sort of ISP your IPs would change all the time, not even taking into account various moves, switch of ISP, trips, internet cafes, aso. Making access depend on IP is ok if you deal with organizations which have a certain IP space for themselves. Otherwise, for individual users, it is a bad idea and simply doesn't work.

Best,
Chris....
Lybrary.com
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Postby Guest » 10/05/06 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
We have no way to create pdf files of single issues at the moment. So, yes, you'll have to print out or download the pdf one page at a time.
I actually meant per article, not per issue, but thanks for letting me know it's likely not going to happen.

Oh, here's a question. The downloads are pure text of the articles correct? No ads and such? It's not just images of the pages, but rather converted text of just the actual articles?

If, for instance, an article took several pages and thus several separate pdf's, I can say that's not too bad because there are efficient free software tools to stitch single pdf pages together if need be.

Once things are running smoothly, I wouldn't be surprised If I gave it a go for at least a day to try it out. $10 isn't a huge investment and I'm sure I could find some good stuff in 24 hours. Though, since the system has already been running pretty well for Kalush, I probably have no real need to wait except for my impecunious nature. :)

On a slightly different note, I tend to agree with you about Magicseen. I think offering their current issues online could really bite them in the ass.
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Postby Guest » 10/05/06 06:07 PM

Originally posted by Chris Aguilar:
On a slightly different note, I tend to agree with you about Magicseen. I think offering their current issues online could really bite them in the ass.
Chris, could you argue your point for the education of the rest of us? Why do you think it is a bad idea for Magicseen? I gave some reasons why I think it is good and will lead to more profit. I would be interested in your line of thought.

Best,
Chris....
www.lybrary.com
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Postby Guest » 10/05/06 06:24 PM

Originally posted by Chris Wasshuber:
Chris, could you argue your point for the education of the rest of us?
...
Best,
Chris....
My opinions on that are pretty subjective (as I feel yours are), so I'm quite happy to just agree to disagree.

I doubt you have have access to the financials of magicseen and I know I do not. So it seems rather dumb to think a debate on this would produce much in the way of concrete data. If it's important for you to argue the the benefit of e-books (yet again) with someone, perhaps someone else will oblige. :)

Besides, wasn't this topic supposed to be about the new Genii archives? I admit I was quite wrong to go off topic like that.

So how many of you out there think you'll give this new venture a try?

And for those of you already using this system, how is the searching? Pretty quick? Convenient in terms of doing advanced (and/or/not) type searches?
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 10/05/06 06:48 PM

Originally posted by Chris Aguilar:
Oh, here's a question. The downloads are pure text of the articles correct? No ads and such? It's not just images of the pages, but rather converted text of just the actual articles?
The files in AskAlexander are full-text images of the issue. You will be able to see each page as it was originally issued (that means all images, ads, etc.) as well as be able to search the full text of everything in the archive.

Searches come back pretty quickly -- I have nothing to complain about there.

So far, I've been very happy with the access I have via Conjuring Arts, and feel it is extremely worthwhile. I'd be more than happy to send a sample pdf and/or screenshot of the AA interface to anyone who asks, but only if Richard says that it's alright. I don't want to step on any toes.

I do, however, want to encourage anyone who is interested to, at the very least, try out the $10, single day access. It's cheap, you'll get a good sense of what's inside, and as Richard stated earlier, memberships are upgradable, so that $10 will not have been wasted.

-Jim
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Postby Guest » 10/06/06 03:15 AM

Originally posted by Chris Aguilar:
My opinions on that are pretty subjective (as I feel yours are),...
Well, that's what opinions are.

Originally posted by Chris Aguilar:
I doubt you have have access to the financials of magicseen and I know I do not. So it seems rather dumb to think a debate on this would produce much in the way of concrete data.
Since when does a debate produce data? Data could enter a debate to support an argument, but I have never seen data being generated by debate. I was hoping, since you obviously have an opinion on this subject, that you might explain how you arrived at your opinion. But of course, it is also perfectly fine if you do not want to do so. It just makes your statment weak and unsupported.

Let me share an observation which I find quite interesting, because it is a contradiction. Richard wrote a few posts back: "At this point in time, most people want a magazine that's beautifully printed, that they can hold in their hands, and is easy to read and carry around." Ok fine. Then Richard wrote: "I think Magicseen is making a mistake offering digital downloads of its magazine" and you (Chris Aguilar) wrote: "On a slightly different note, I tend to agree with you about Magicseen. I think offering their current issues online could really bite them in the ass." Why should that be if most want the paper? Don't you realize that there is a bit of a flaw in your reasoning? If nobody wants it in digital form, then offering it in digital form would have no negative nor positive impact. How could that then 'bite them in the ass'?

Best,
Chris....
www.lybrary.com
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Postby Amos McCormick » 10/06/06 03:46 AM

Okay, children... Let's all play nice...
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Postby Guest » 10/06/06 05:28 AM

Originally posted by Chris Wasshuber:
It just makes your statment weak and unsupported.
Sure, however one wants to feel about such things is fine by me. I certainly don't plan on losing any sleep over it.

Now I realize that some folks seem to enjoy such things, but I'm not particularly enamored at the prospect of yet another debate on the relative merits of e-books.

If one has some insatiable need to tread that ground yet again, I suspect that one would might be best served in seeking out a different dance partner. :)

Now, perhaps we can get back to discussing the new Genii archive?
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Postby Guest » 10/06/06 05:39 AM

Isn't the new Genii archive a digital product? Shouldn't we discuss here how to best access it? What are the access limitations? What are their implications? What does it all mean to us?

Best,
Chris....
www.lybrary.com
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Postby Guest » 10/06/06 05:41 AM

Originally posted by Chris Wasshuber:
Isn't the new Genii archive a digital product? Shouldn't we discuss here how to best access it? What are the access limitations? What are their implications? What does it all mean to us?
Nice general questions, but more suited to another thread on the merits (or lack of) of e-books, I'd think.

I think Richard has been very good at answering the specific questions and I'll almost certainly try the $10 plan to sample the service.

I think you missed this bit from my last post:
...I'm not particularly enamored at the prospect of yet another debate on the relative merits of e-books.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/06/06 06:02 AM

This thread is an annoucement that the entire back file of Genii from 1936 to 1998 is available online--the first time in the history of our field that any magazine has made itself available this way.

It is not intended to be a debate on the merits of e-books, e-zines, or the manner in which I've decided to handle the project.

All sensible questions will be answered. All others will be ignored or deleted.
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Postby Guest » 10/06/06 06:09 AM

Good to be back on topic.

When one gets search results do they see the whole of the page online before they send it off to pdf? Or is it only seen complete after the pdf conversion?

And do the pdfs have any security restrictions on them? For instance, is it possible to copy text from them if one wanted to paste a snippet somewhere?
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 10/06/06 06:23 AM

The search results are returned as a series of in-context snippets, so you'll see your search term along with some surrounding text. Clicking on a particular result will bring you to a page with two frames: the top frame has navigation options (next/previous buttons as well as a search within document and jump to page option) and the lower frame contains the .pdf file with your search term highlighted.

As far as I can tell, there are no restrictions on the .pdf files. I've printed as well as cut & pasted text from several of them already.

Richard -- you may have missed my comment above, but with your permission, I'd like to send either a sample .pdf file or screenshots of the AA interface to people with questions. It'll probably take care of a lot of questions people might have. If you're not comfortable with it, no problem -- I wouldn't do it unless I had your approval.

-Jim
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