mrgoat wrote:John Hostler wrote:
How many cases have the RIAA or MPAA successfully brought to court?
I think legal action is a waste of time.
mrgoat wrote:I'm not saying you couldn't do a magic download store. But I doubt it would reach the impact of iTunes.
However, if magic publishers stepped vaguely into the online era, and more aped the adult movie model, it might be interesting.
What online streaming services are there for magic? Heck even L&L's site is pathetic compared to the big adult sites. Why?
Would offering punters the content they want, in a medium they want at a price they want be THAT hard to do?
I think that magic publishers (no offence Mr K) are like the big 5 music labels. Old fashioned and arrogant. Think that they know best, and seem to be almost actively ignoring the internet as a distribution medium.
Look what happened to the music labels...
This is all obvious. Netflix = good. Blockbuster = screwed. iTunes = good. Tower Records = out of business.
All I think needs to happen is a site needs to launch that is a 'gatherer' of content. Just like iTunes. An aggregator. Go to L&L and the others and agree a fee, put up a site, sell the content. DRM free in a variety of file formats. And price it sensibly.
Why should you have to buy the whole Lennert Green video if all you want is one trick from it?
Why can you not just buy the one trick for a fraction of the price of the whole DVD?
Food for thought...
Steve Pellegrino wrote:I don't want to hijack this thread with L&L stuff so I'll make a quick reply to Mr Goat and leave it at that.
Steve Pellegrino wrote:I can appreciate some of what you're saying, but I also don't think you understand the economics in play here. I'm a full-time performer and the work I do for L&L only takes me a few hours every month. Anything and I mean anything beyond that is going to increase their costs substantially.
Steve Pellegrino wrote:Now they could go to a third-party to do everything, but I guarantee it's going to at least quadruple their budget for web development and that's not including the servers. I can tell you that Ellusionist is run across several servers. L&L would have more content than Ellusionist, so it would not be practical or advisable to run all of this from a single server.
Steve Pellegrino wrote:You say the site is behind the times. I'm not so sure that the extra bells & whistles would add more revenue because I don't know if the demand is there right now. Maybe it is. Maybe it is for some companies like Ellusionist who have a younger demographic and it isn't for L&L. I think the model would work better for L&L if they kept their products exclusive and didn't distribute everything. But that's not the case and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Tim Ellis wrote:Okay - as the original poster I asked "Please don't derail this thread by debating his right to "share" his purchases." but it's happened anyway...
Mr Goat: "I think that's a MUCH more interesting and USEFUL discussion that bitching about 14 year olds who WOULD NEVER BUY THE PRODUCT ANYWAY pirating something."
So would you offer the same advice to the movie studios? Stop spending millions of dollars telling people NOT to pirate movies because those people would never buy them anyway??
Tim Ellis wrote:Mr Goat thinks nothing can be done about illegal uploads. Let me give you examples with YouTube and FaceBook. Three times I have had my accounts on each deleted while I've had to come back to FB and YT and PROVE that I'm the copyright owner of what I have posted.
Tim Ellis wrote:Mr Goat added "I wonder how much magic piracy is down to people simply being curious if an effect is worth buying or not. We've all been burnt buying appalling tricks that sounded good in the ads. If the appalling tricks stopped, maybe the piracy would decline?"
I've heard this said so many times before. It's a JUSTIFICATION not a reason.
Tim Ellis wrote:Mr Goat asks: "How many cases have the RIAA or MPAA successfully brought to court?"
This is the beauty - they don't go to court, they get settled BEFORE going to court because the pirates don't have the funds to mount a legal defense. On several occasions James Clark has threatened to sue file sharers and they have folded immediately.
Tim Ellis wrote:
Getting back to the original point of my first post - the Demonoid staff requested I stop "attacking" their member by making comments in the thread about MY DVD and said if I wanted it removed, I need to email their administration. I did, and received this reply. (Legal minded readers might be able to interpret this for me):
We are a torrent indexing site. We host torrent files only, which are small, non copyrightable files which may be used to get a list of ip addresses only. Nothing else is ever hosted or transmitted by the server and there is no copyright infringement taking place.
Even though we are not required to do so since we are not based in america or the american continent and there is no copyright infringement taking place, and we are not obligated in any way to remove content on your request, we honor properly written DMCA removal requests in a timely manner. But need the DMCA takedown and the links to be removed in the proper format and nothing can be removed until you supply one.
Please send a properly formatted DMCA takedown request to our assigned agent (firstname.lastname@example.org), with the link to the torrent page in the format specified on our contact page (http://www.demonoid.com/contact_us.php)
Also, please don't forget to read our terms of service and disclaimer. The links are available in our contact page.
the Larry wrote:I know my way around the digital domain but I am no expert. So I can't offer that much. But I have seen one publisher do sort of what you are referring to: Lybrary.com
If you go to their magic->cards->moves category then you will see that they have unbundled the entire Ackerman Advanced Card Technique series (total of 8 DVDs). You can purchase each move separately. I bought two moves so far and this really works great. I can download a video file and play it on my computer, or I can view a streaming version online.
This could of course still be made better and slicker, but it is great that one can choose only those moves that one likes. Rather than putting down $30 for a DVD you can buy for two three bucks those moves you want to study.
Not sure if you would call that a magic iTunes, probably not but the unbundling is a nice step forward to make good use of digital technology.
Jonathan Townsend wrote:S
BTW - how does lifecycle management for customers fit in with the cycle of abuse associated with selling things called "secrets", "inner secrets" and "ultimate secrets" from "underground"?
IE why should anyone care to keep a secret when they find out that the secret they bought was just the "price of their naivete" that day and why should they not wish to spare their peers that sense of being diminished and the guilt for doing that to themselves?
Tim Ellis wrote:Mr Goat said "Show me how you have gotten the pirate bay to remove links to content and I will buy you dinner."
I don't know about Piratebay, but I did notice on SurfTheChannel, a similar site, that all the links to uploads of the final double episode of PRISON BREAK had been deleted.
If that's the case then, like Richard, I'll stop creating too.
Richard Kaufman wrote:I got the same [censored] reply from Demonoid. I provided them with all the information they required, but they then stopped responding to my e-mails.
I'm considering not publishing any more books--then they can just kiss my ass.
Jim Riser wrote:As I see it, all of the publishers in the world need to form an international organization possibly called something like “Publishers United”. This powerful (due to numbers) group hires a business like SONY to develop an easily portable proprietary solid state durable full featured reader. This reader can handle sound, video, stills, and text – collectively termed the content. The proprietary reader could not print nor save anything other than bookmarks. All content would remain on a series of master servers. Each reader would have a built in identifying code number and a proprietary signal descrambler. Content could not be accessed without the special reader and its identifying code number.
mrgoat wrote:I really think the only way round it is to create 'undownloadable' content as Reznor has proven to work (making 750k in 3 days).
the Larry wrote:mrgoat wrote:I really think the only way round it is to create 'undownloadable' content as Reznor has proven to work (making 750k in 3 days).
Can you explain? I don't know who or what Reznor is.
Dave V wrote:I never liked the idea before, but rather than selling proprietary readers, we could modify Mr. Riser's idea slightly and instead sell what's commonly referred to as a "Dongle." This would be a small piece of hardware (with present technology, probably USB) that has an encrypted code embedded in it. Any content sold would be registered to this code, and only a computer with this dongle plugged in can stream the content for "online only" viewing. With a Public/Private Key system, content would only go to someone who has access to both keys, one embedded in the device and the other via digital "handshake" from the authorization server. This system allows for changing keys so even a "cloned" device would not work past the code expiration period.
For those who argue that they can't stay online forever and want to carry the material around, perhaps a 1 week expiration can be added (although that opens the door for abuse and the cycle of potential theft starts all over again)
They have USB adaptors about the size of a dime, so it's no big deal to mail one of these rather than a packaged disk set.
Dave V wrote:The difference depends on us to change the way we view magic and make the value in our own performance, not the "secret."
jason156 wrote:Interesting, but...
What will stop someone from videotaping their screen with a camcorder and posting that.
What will stop someone from studying the material and video taping themselves going through the effects?
Dave V wrote:Maybe your "room admission" could work again. That's almost what I'm suggesting in a way. Magic dealers can give out "keys" like candy, with just enough "teasers" available without paying to make them want to subscribe to the streaming content. Again, the content will only go to those possessing a valid key code and registration. Kids passing their keys around will find they won't work on any computer other than the one legally authorized by the key generator.