How does Derren Brown mind read cards?

Instead of mentally projecting your mentalism thoughts, type them here.

Postby Anderson » 04/22/09 12:54 AM

Hey guys, I'm a fan of Derren Brown and was getting into nlp, hypnosis, and mentalism a bit and I was wondering if any of you guys could lead me in the right direction of learning how to mindread (through body language cues) what card a person was holding. He teaches a 75 year old lady how to do this in a Trick or Treat episode where the old Lady is entering a poker competition. I also see a unknown magician/mentalist do it in this youtube video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcVCpiPo ... E6&index=3

and was trying to find out how they were doing it but couldn't find any products online that I could buy that teaches this. I am planning on buying Paul Ekman's FACS (Facial Action Coding System) product for $260 because I'm planning on learning how to detect lies anyways, and was wondering if any of you guys might be aware of how to learn how to do the card guessing trick.

I think this relates to learning how to guess what number a person is thinking as well since cards have a combination of both numbers and pictures. Any idea how to do this mentalism trick?
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Postby Anderson » 04/22/09 02:47 AM

Ok, I saw Criss Angel doing it too, so it's called hellstromism and ideometer responses. So the same thing used to find hidden objects in a mall. Reading body language. So now, how do I start being able to guess numbers and suits that a person is thinking.. I know I can learn somewhere to practice this when I'm asking questions and hear from the tone to determine whether it's truth or not but how do I learn this just through body language without asking questions. And Ekman's FACS stuff can help me find lies, but how do I specifically find out if it's a specific number or a specific suit?


And seems like the all so famous muscle reader, Banachek, is Criss Angel's consultant, better check out Banachek's stuff, says it needs a lot of training but certainly possible.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 04/22/09 06:55 AM

NLP and props can make good cover stories.
What did you think of the material in Tony Corinda's book?
Mundus vult decipi
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Postby John Bowden » 04/22/09 07:32 AM

Over fity years ago my late mother promised to teach my younger sister how to play the piano when she reached the age of six. On her sixth birthday she sat down at the Piano and said to my mother "I'm six, now make me play".

Some people, persumely older than six come on a magic site and its a case of "Tell me how to do everything" and "I want to know everything". These are generally their first postings.

Some people act like my little sister used to act when she was six.

Cheers from the Emerald Isle,
John Bowden...................the Irish Magician
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 04/22/09 07:40 AM

So, does your sister know how to tell what card someone took by looking at their body language? How about her opinion of Corinda's book?

And... did she learn to play piano?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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Postby Dick Christian » 04/22/09 09:26 AM

If you want to study Derren Brown's techniques buy his books and DVDs, but bear in mind that his work is at a very high level so before you study his work it is essential that you become well grounded in the fundamentals of mentalism. Your study should start with the seminal works in the field, i.e.: Corinda, Annemann, Larsen, Hull, Newman, etc. etc. Once you have mastered the basics you may be ready tackle the more recent work by Rowland, Banachek, Bernstein and finally Derren Brown.

Happy hunting.
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Postby John Bowden » 04/22/09 10:31 AM

She learnt to play................but she also learnt that she had to pay her dues. It took years of hard study and many long hours of practice before she could be considered a pianist. At the time of her death she left a legacy of some fine musical compositions behind her.

She left Corinda and card magic to her big brother who has also paid his dues with years of practise, countless hours of study and a considerable financial input.

The road to knowledge, any knowledge, is a long hard road and just knowing the destanation you want to arrive at is not enough. To get there you have to travel. Others can with their advice and help shorten the road but there are no real shortcuts.

My advice to Anderson is firstly know where you want to go and then seek advice rather than a free lift.

Secondly when you get that advice take it. In your case it is a list of books that is posted. Get those books, study them, practise what is in them and understand them for what they are.

Thirdly and maybe most importantly if you consider its not worth your while to take the advice offered here, by not just myself but others as well, maybe you should look at some other craft as a hobby.

If you are a true student then I welcome you on this journey. Be warned ..........it is a journey without end.

Cheers from the Emerald Isle,
John Bowden.................the Irish Magician
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Postby Francesca Moffet » 04/22/09 01:54 PM

Check out Pure Effect and Tricks of the Mind if you want to know some of his methods.

You'd probably enjoy The Devil's Picturebook as well.
Love and magic have a great deal in common. They enrich the soul, and they both take practice.
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Postby Dick Christian » 04/22/09 03:18 PM

This seems like the appropriate time and place to post the following parable by my friend and Master Mentalist Bob Cassidy. It was first published in his shortlived Quintessence newsletter in 1998 and is posted here with his permission.

A Parable
by the Rt. Rev. Dr. Bob

Nearly two hundred years ago a young man went to a concert where he was startled, amazed and entertained by the virtuosity of the great pianist, Paganini. He was particularly impressed by the adoring reaction of Paganinis audience, especially the women. He decided that he, too, would become a master, and would obtain the same respect and admiration.

He immediately went in search of a music shop to purchase an Amati the finest violin made.

He asked the proprietor if he could buy the sheet music for the pieces he had heard Paganini play.

The shop owner handed him the music and asked, Are you a musician?

Oh, yes, said the young man, I am the next Paganini! I have one question, though. What is the meaning of all of those black dots and lines on the sheet music. I cannot read this!!

Sir, replied the owner, that is the way music is transcribed and written. Before you can be a master you must first learn to read music, you must learn your scales, do your exercises and master the fundamentals. I assume you can play the violin.

Well, it looks pretty easy to play. Paganini had no trouble with it, and it was obvious that what he did was very easy. Besides, I have no interest in learning scales or doing exercises. I simply want to know how to play the pieces I heard Paganini play.

The old man laughed so loudly that the boy took offense. "Listen, old man, he said, Dont laugh at me and give me lectures, just tell me the secret to playing these pieces!!

Unbeknownst to the boy, the old man as also a clairvoyant, a life-long initiate of the Black Arts. My son, he stated, To receive the answer to your query you must first live for two hundred years. You must then buy a device that will be known as a computer and use it to travel into a dimension called cyberspace. There you will encounter a beast known as Internet. Ask to be transported to a domain known as The Music Cafe and all will be revealed to you."

And they wont preach at me the way you have done? They will simply tell me the secret?

Yes. A few you will meet there will preach to you, true. But most will be happy to trade the secrets of Paganini, say, for the secrets of Mozart. I will be happy to sell you a harpsichord and Mozart sheet music so that you will have something with which to barter.

Now you are talking, old man! Sell me the harpsichord and the music! . . . And one more thing where can I buy the secret that will enable me to live for two hundred years so that I may find the Internet?

Not to worry, replied the shopkeeper, People like you will be around forever.

copyright 1998 by Robert Cassidy
Originally published in Quintessence by Robert Cassidy, reprinted here with the authors permission
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Postby Dick Christian » 04/22/09 04:48 PM

Yes folks, I know that Paganini was a violinist and not a pianist. I simply quoted it the way Bob wrote it. Just thought I'd better say it before someone calls me culturally ignorant.

While I may not be musically talented, neither am I totally musically illiterate.
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Postby Mark Paulson » 04/23/09 01:54 AM

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
Help you I can, yes.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/23/09 05:25 AM

Anderson wrote:Hey guys, I'm a fan of Derren Brown and was getting into nlp, hypnosis, and mentalism a bit and I was wondering if any of you guys could lead me in the right direction of learning how to mindread (through body language cues) what card a person was holding. He teaches a 75 year old lady how to do this in a Trick or Treat episode where the old Lady is entering a poker competition. I also see a unknown magician/mentalist do it in this youtube video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcVCpiPo ... E6&index=3

and was trying to find out how they were doing it but couldn't find any products online that I could buy that teaches this. I am planning on buying Paul Ekman's FACS (Facial Action Coding System) product for $260 because I'm planning on learning how to detect lies anyways, and was wondering if any of you guys might be aware of how to learn how to do the card guessing trick.

I think this relates to learning how to guess what number a person is thinking as well since cards have a combination of both numbers and pictures. Any idea how to do this mentalism trick?


Brown pretends to use NLP, hypnosis, body language etc. I can't think of an effect that relies on these methods to work. He has done muscle reading, but that isn't really in the same area.

As stated, you'd be better off trying 13 steps and other well known 'bibles' of mentalism and getting to grips with them. Then you will probably be able to realise how Brown achieves a lot of his material. And it's not NLP.

:)
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Postby Francesca Moffet » 04/23/09 10:20 AM

I've just noticed that Derren's new live show Enigma is having a London showing so I will be trying to get a ticket for it. I haven't seem him live since I went to see Something Wicked This Way Comes and I absolutely loved it.

The finale newspaper trick was splendid.
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