Classic Effects

A place where beginners can participate, ask questions, and post their views. However, beginners typically ask a lot of questions about sources, tricks, books, and so on. In fact, all magicians are interested (or should be) in the provenance of tricks, ideas, and related matters. This department will service these needs.

Postby Nate Green » 04/13/09 10:02 PM

Hello Everyone,

I have been busy with "Classic Secrets of Magic" over the past several months after reading the Book of the Month archive and seeing Richard's strong support of the book in another thread. Given the topic of classic tricks, I was wondering if some of you would share your picks for excellent classic routines and where they can be found in print.

Take care,
Nate
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 04/13/09 10:07 PM

I would start (and I'm not misunderstanding your question here) with the Roy Benson egg bag routine in Classic Secrets of Magic. It's a killer.
Now, to answer your question, you should find Magic Without Apparatus by Gaultier and read that.
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Postby Nate Green » 04/15/09 01:25 AM

Thank you for the info Richard. You must be a big fan of the egg bag. Other than making one on your own, is there a manufacturer that you prefer?

Surely, other folks on the forum have some classics that they enjoy. Some of my picks for great routines with classic props would be the following:
Tommy Wonder's Ambitious Card Plus Ringbox
Slydini's Knotted Silks
Michael Ammar's Cups and Balls
Ron Wilson's Torn and Restored Newspaper
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Postby David Alexander » 04/17/09 03:36 PM

Nate,

According to Charlie Miller, my mother made the best Malini Egg Bag he'd ever seen. That was decades ago and I'm certain Charlie would say, as I do, that Lynetta Welch at Fabric Manipulation makes the best Malini Bag. For around $90, it's a bargain.

Buy it, learn a good routine, and do it justice and you'll have a strong and entertaining effect that you can do for years under practically any circumstances.
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Postby flynn » 04/17/09 04:32 PM

For close-up, coins across good to learn several diferent versions with and without a shell

And for Stand-up/Stage Paul Potassys cards in bucket.

These are my faves cause theyre killers and often save them only for payed gigs.
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Postby NCMarsh » 04/17/09 05:46 PM

Let me second the recommendation of Lynetta's bags, the material hangs in such a way that the bag is "empty" -- it seems utterly impossible that anything can be concealed within.

I used Lynetta's bag for three years and now use Jeff Hobson's bag (for reasons unique to the particular routine I now do, and which have nothing to do with any comparison between the two bags), and there are several compelling displays possible with Lynetta's bag (or with older bags expertly made from crepe-de-chine, which will cost you a great deal more than $90) that are not possible with other bags commercially available.

But the bag itself is of little value without really understanding how to use it.

Three phenomenal resources:

-Ken Brooke and Friend's and the Malini Egg Bag (Available for under $10 from www.dennymagic.com)...there's a ton of great info. here..but I'd like to draw you to one point: produce the egg as the first phase! Almost no one does -- the handling is described here -- and it makes for a powerful and surprising beginning when the egg appears after they've examined the empty bag
- Bob White's DVD "Malini Egg Bag" -- Bob has some of the most deceptive, and entertaining, material I've seen with the bag
- Harry Riser's Secrets of an Escamoteur (If you have the performing experience to carry it off, I strongly recommend not cutting the routine down to two phases like Harry does...I have done it both ways hundreds of times for paying audiences, and have talked with guys who have done it for decades, and I find that -- provided you have the performing chops to carry it through -- the bag reaches a whole other level with multiple phases...that said...Riser gives the best account I've read of why the Malini bag is so deceptive, and a history of the bag that is fascinating...it is really worth reading this material to understand your tool...and I think the Riser routine -- or at least its basic outline -- is a perfect first routine to start to "get" the bag before attempting a longer, multi-phase piece

The egg bag is a stunning, highly entertaining piece of magic that fits in your pocket and plays to any size audience -- close-up, parlor, or stage

The internet is rife with self-appointed experts...after writing all this I think it's only fair to let you see what I do with the bag in performance so that you can weigh for yourself my recommendations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq2ChVVb_s4

The egg bag is a beautiful mystery, best of luck and please treat it with respect

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Postby Nate Green » 04/17/09 07:01 PM

Thank you for the replies. I must admit that the egg bag was one of a couple effects within CSOM that I stayed away from. Probably because I watched someone do the trick and it wasn't very entertaining. However, I know that the fault should not lie with the props.

Anyhow, I called Denny Haney yesterday and he was very generous in taking some time to discuss the egg bag with me. Thus, I am giving it a go. I ordered the Danny Tong/Malini Bag along with books by Ken Brooke and Charlie Miller. If I enjoy it as much as you folks do, I am sure that I will upgrade to a Welch bag once I become familiar with the routine.

To Nathan: Are you using the Hobson bag in your youtube clip?

Take care,
Nate
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Postby NCMarsh » 04/17/09 08:10 PM

Nate,

Awesome! Denny is an unbelievable resource, we are very fortunate to have him.

The Tong bag is a great first bag (it was mine) and I think its very smart to start there, see where it goes, and upgrade as you develop.

Speaking of resources -- on many subjects but certainly on the egg bag -- David Alexander has been doing it for decades, knows a helluva lot about the bag and what he has to say is well worth listening to.

Yes, the bag in the clip is a Hobson.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

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Postby Cugel » 04/18/09 07:33 PM

Nathan - very nice performance of the egg bag.
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Postby David Alexander » 04/19/09 12:36 AM

Thanks for the kind words, Nathan. Yes, I have been doing the Malini Bag well before it became readily available to the general magic community, back when you either had to have a mother willing to sew the bag or be willing to pay an expert seamstress sufficient coin to do the fine work necessary. I developed my routine with input from Ozzie Malini and Charlie Miller and a bit of experimenting of my own.

Oddly enough, the construction of the Malini bag was explained in Tarbell, but didn't really gain any traction at the time. Joe Berg gave me one of Paul Rosini's Egg Bags. Made of red wool, it is cut out at the bottom corner like a Malini bag. Somewhere along the way Paul got the info about the bag, although from published reports and private letters I've read, he didn't do much with the bag...calling it The Egyptian Pocket. I think he vanished and produced the egg once, which is really only the start of a successful routine.

Doing an entertaining routine does take performing chops as it is not something that just happens. There are a lot of insights that have yet to be published.

Malini wasn't the only professional performer to hold the effect in high regard. It was once said that Arnold DeBiere got more entertainment out of his presentation of the Egg Bag than he did from his large illusions.

If you go here: http://www.britishpathe.com/thumbnails. ... De%20Biere you will see a version DeBiere did for British Pathe a couple of years before he died. The low-res edition can be downloaded for free and viewed on your computer.

I was told that De Biere occasionally used an egg on a pull to throw off magicians who might be in the audience. This was long before Jack Miller and his version. De Biere was the "discoverer" of Jon Martin, keeping him a secret to his death. It was only after DeBiere died that Martin became known to the professional magic community.
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Postby Nate Green » 04/20/09 11:02 PM

David,

Thanks for the inside info on the egg bag. I was not aware that a magician of your caliber lives in my old hometown.

My egg bag and books arrived today. Time for me to get to work! One question though, are all egg bags on the thin side? From a novice perspective, I thought that this Tong bag would be thicker.

Thanks
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Postby NCMarsh » 04/20/09 11:31 PM

The thinness is what makes it deceptive. Keep in mind you use a blown egg with the Malini bag (NOT wood etc...the weightlessness of the egg is a huge part of the deception). There was a time when Denny included Charlie Miller's instructions on blowing an egg with orders of the Brooke book. If not, for $5 Miller's routine (with Miller's method for blowing eggs -- one hole, no blowing) is available from Denny.

I now use a hollow resin egg...unbreakable and much more practical...but, blowing the eggs is a good (and cheap) start

Poulet eggs, which are the best for the bag, were hard to find for a while...you can now get them at Wal-Mart as "Medium" eggs

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Postby Nate Green » 04/21/09 12:48 AM

Thanks Nathan.

Where do you purchase your resin eggs?
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Postby David » 06/03/09 08:18 PM

[ you should find Magic Without Apparatus by Gaultier and read that. [/quote]
Would but some kind person reprint the Fleming Classics.
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