Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby mrgoat » 04/23/09 01:37 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:If I may add magician's will either have the ability or the "chops" to do what I have demonstrated in my three video's using some other riffle shuffle technique.

Or they "DON'T"!

Just my opinion!


OK then Glenn - I'll rise to your bait. Gimme a minute and I will record some stuff for you. Prepare to be fried.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/23/09 02:01 PM

Here you go Glenn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvGWJIIOZI

Just my opinion.
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Postby Jonathan Miller » 04/23/09 02:21 PM

I kinda stopped watching after a minute but then I watched the deal and almost fell out of my chair

mrgoat 1 - glennbishop 0
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Postby Tom Stone » 04/23/09 04:20 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:If I may add magician's will either have the ability or the "chops" to do what I have demonstrated in my three video's using some other riffle shuffle technique.

Or they "DON'T"!

But what is the effect?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 04/23/09 07:59 PM

The effect is that Mr. Magician, in the guise of a card cheat, can demonstrate his abilities to control cards. Whether or not that's a good thing is open to interpretation.
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Postby Tom Frame » 04/23/09 08:38 PM

Zing! That's a hoot, Damian. Well played.
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Postby Roger M. » 04/23/09 09:38 PM

Todays Headline:
"Goat Owns Bishop".
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 04/23/09 10:15 PM

powns. ownership implies responsibility.
Mundus vult decipi
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Postby Tom Stone » 04/24/09 12:22 AM

Richard Kaufman wrote:The effect is that Mr. Magician, in the guise of a card cheat, can demonstrate his abilities to control cards.

That's not an effect.
Going by common knowledge, a card cheat is expected to be able to control cards via covert handling.
Here, the plot, the actual handling and the audience's preconcieved ideas all coincides to the same thing: "Cards are controlled with secret sleights".
That's not an effect - that's the reality!
More in the genre of a flourish or a coin roll, than a magic effect. A skill demonstration.
But perhaps there is an latent effect here, not yet brought out? If that's the case, then...

What is the effect?
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Postby John M. Dale » 04/24/09 01:53 AM

mrgoat wrote:Here you go Glenn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvGWJIIOZI

Just my opinion.


Hey, Goaty,

I'm glad to see you've not lost the art of snark that I've admired since the a.m.s days watching you slay our Australian "friend." ;)

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Postby Pete McCabe » 04/24/09 02:17 AM

The effect is that a person painstakingly shuffles several cards into the right positions.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/24/09 04:33 AM

Pete McCabe wrote:The effect is that a person painstakingly shuffles several cards into the right positions.


Where's the script for that in your bloody book McCabe? How could you miss out something so obvious?

I feel disappointed, and although you were kind enough to personally make my copy of your book complete with the missing letter, I now feel let down.

Please publish an addendum to the book and release it for free or GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK.

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Postby Cugel » 04/24/09 04:43 AM

Glenn Bishop wrote:Cugel, Denis Behr, Eoin O'Hare, El Mystico, mrgoat, Silly Walter, Nikodemus Siivola, Dustin Stinett and anyone.

In the spirit of good fun - I would love to see video of any of you guys stacking and culling together on the fly - or stacking and culling four aces from a slug - or stacking and culling from a slug three different hands for a five handed game like I do in my triple duke triumph video - using any kind of table riffle shuffle technique that is not the triumph shuffle as I use in my video.


Challenge accepted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67dcfjhb ... annel_page
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Postby El Mystico » 04/24/09 06:08 AM

That's lovely Cugel, but - to anticipate Glenn - this is just culling. Glenn is talking about stacking AND culling. (although culling and stacking would probably be a better way round).
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Postby Cugel » 04/24/09 06:33 AM

El Mystico wrote:That's lovely Cugel, but - to anticipate Glenn - this is just culling. Glenn is talking about stacking AND culling. (although culling and stacking would probably be a better way round).


Yep, Glenn will likely decry it as not meeting his challenge, but only because he won't comprehend what it is he is seeing.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 04/24/09 08:59 AM

Cugel wrote:
El Mystico wrote:That's lovely Cugel, but - to anticipate Glenn - this is just culling. Glenn is talking about stacking AND culling. (although culling and stacking would probably be a better way round).


Yep, Glenn will likely decry it as not meeting his challenge, but only because he won't comprehend what it is he is seeing.

Sorry Cugel - even when I think the video is nice work it is "not what I am doing" and not even close to the goal that I went after in my three video's.

Try culling and stacking four aces from a slug that is not on the top of the deck - then try culling and stacking three different hands of "four of a kind" from a slug that is not on the top or the bottom of the deck.

Then try to cull and stack - three or four aces on the fly from a shuffled deck. "And you have no idea where the aces are in the deck". All this I might add without marking or tricking up the deck in any way. Or using a tricked up deck like belly strippers or marking or putting sand work on the aces. Or using a corner short or a short card.

I don't think that you can do it as I did in my three video's with any other kind of shuffle work. However I would be happy to be proven wrong. As I said in another thread - the video that you presented is nice - but not even close to what I am accomplishing in my three video's.

And mrgoat - your video was a "riot" thanks for such a great laugh!!!!

Just my opinion.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 04/24/09 09:00 AM

http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubb ... 04&fpart=1


Jim Maloney wrote:Steve has a point. The nastiness displayed on this thread, especially from Chris Aguilar, is unnecessary. You may not be a fan of Glenn's work, but the constant barrage of ugliness displayed toward him is, frankly, somewhat embarrassing.

This thread has been running in circles for a while now (some may say down the drain). I'm locking it.

-Jim


Richard Kaufman wrote:I'll over rule Jim here for one reason: no one except Glenn Bishop has given the original poster many leads on published methods of Riffle Stacking.

Let's remove Glenn Bishop from the picture for a while: Glenn, please don't post in this particular thread anymore. We get your point.

Those who think that Glenn's work is crap: don't post in this particular thread anymore. We get your point.

As to why the thread has devolved to this point, frankly I think Mr. Bishop's attitude brings out a mean ole' streak in some people and they feel compelled to tell him what they think and it's not a pretty sight (or site!). We're done with that in this thread.

Now if someone has something interesting to say about Riffle Stacking, please continue.


Jim Maloney and Richard Kaufman came close to nailing it in this above thread. The point is that in my opinion - there are magicians here that dont like ME.

So even if I presented the finest technical ability on earth - because the magicians dont like me and in my opinion some may even have some kind of a grudge or a vendetta against me - some in my opinion would still not like and try to find the flaws in my work and in my three videos. Just because they seem to like to jerk me around and argue about magic.

Some of this may go back to when I produced and sold my first DVD with Glenn Bishop Cuts the aces on it and I got much the same comments in blogs and in the Magic Caf about my way of doing my slant on the Stevens cull - one said that it was a pain to watch. And my answer is still - my audience likes it.

However in my opinion that does not bug me at all because I work for a living and my audience that I charge money for my magician service seem to love what I do and I have a track record of success for more than 25 - 35 years. As I remember there were magicians that said comments about Jack Pyles second deal and that they could spot it. And as I remember Jack didnt care and still made a living with it doing his bridge deal.

Nate Leipzig said it - or something like it - if they like you they will like your act. And in my opinion if I may add - flawless magic is only an opinion anyway.

That is all I have to say - in this thread.

Thanks everyone for the laughs and the kind words as I now close the door.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 04/24/09 09:29 AM

Perhaps if you stated your objectives
Then discussed your strategy for meeting those objectives
And then discussed the mertits of that strategy
And then offered a simple demonstration as proof of concept
More readers could understand what's going on
And we could read a better discussion than what's been
Mundus vult decipi
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Postby mrgoat » 04/24/09 09:42 AM

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Perhaps if you stated your objectives
Then discussed your strategy for meeting those objectives
And then discussed the mertits of that strategy
And then offered a simple demonstration as proof of concept
More readers could understand what's going on
And we could read a better discussion than what's been

Image
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Postby John M. Dale » 04/24/09 11:57 AM

Thanx, Goat. Now I have to clean the coffee off of my monitor.

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Postby mrgoat » 04/24/09 01:42 PM

John M. Dale wrote:Thanx, Goat. Now I have to clean the coffee off of my monitor.

JMD


I am here to serve.

:)
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Postby Cugel » 04/24/09 06:33 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:Sorry Cugel - even when I think the video is nice work it is "not what I am doing" and not even close to the goal that I went after in my three video's.


I have a prediction envelope here that has been held in the safe keeping of the manager of Lloyds of London for the past three weeks and which I have not once touched which, if the kind sir will perform his duty and open it now in front of the cameras, you will see contains a paper predicting that Mr.Bishop would react in exactly this manner. Thank you. Thank you very much.
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Postby Jonathan Miller » 04/25/09 11:31 AM

Is there any chance that Bishop is just like a really good troll? I don't care how big his ego is; NO ONE can think that video he made is actually deceptive..not even the creator. Plus his whole argument about Triumph being the name of the shuffle and not the trick, when anyone who made it past 2nd grade and has a copy of SoM can tell that isn't true. I dunno just seems to me like he wants attention and trolling gets him that.
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Postby Roger M. » 04/25/09 04:12 PM

According to his latest post at the Cafe, Glenn has left the building.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... rum=188&24
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 04/30/09 09:57 AM

Just FYI...

This weekend I am printing up a copy and comb binding it of the complete book - Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Shuffle Triumph's.

This is my complete work on the triumph shuffle and how to use it to cull - stack - and cull stack cards. As well as my ace cutting routine ideas.

And I am sending it with my Punch Cull (deal) DVD (Glenn Bishop Punch Deck Pro) to the Magic Castle Library this next week. I think that important work of this nature - like culling and stacking because the information is so rare - I think that important work like this should be in some of the important magic libraries - like to one at the Magic Castle - so future generations of magicians have good "reference" material.

Just my opinion.

Later on in the year I will adding one or two chapters to the book. Plus I will be writing my book on the punch deal - culling with the punch and a jog shuffle cull - plus I have plans to do a DVD on the Triumph shuffle.

Just FYI
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Postby NCMarsh » 04/30/09 12:44 PM

"You toot your own horn you make one sound, and it doesn't last long because you run out of breath. If a lot of other people are tooting your horn, it makes a lot of noise and the sound is going to be forever because everyone is doing it."

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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/06/09 11:13 AM

Interesting comment NCMarsh - However Houdini and Scarne were both very good at tooting their own horns and self promotion in my opinion and both of them - and more - I wouldn't say did to bad - self promoting themselves and their performing art and business.

Just sent the book Glenn Bishops ace cutting and block transfer shuffle triumph's - and my Glenn Bishop Punch Deck Pro - DVD-4 off to the magic castle library.

The most interesting thing in my opinion about the book is that it has a "workable" system of culling and stacking cards on the fly that is not that hard to do - using the triumph shuffle - and it "works".

However I am going to re-write the book and add 2 - 4 more chapters because there were quite a few things that I left out - on some added technique and some applications and how the cull can be used in magic.

I am one of those magicians that would rather have a comb bound book that I can hold and read rather than an non printable e-book - like the E-book copy (in 7 e-books) that used to be able to be downloaded from my old web site. For me I would rather have a good book than an e-book copy anyday.

The cool thing about the punch deal DVD is that it has footage of Jack Pyle doing his bridge deal - Plus I give tips that Jack Pyle gave me on the second deal. And then also once the work is in the deck - it is easy to find and cull the cards to the bottom or run then up in a five card game - for a demo of poker cheating - anytime.

I hope a few of the Magic Castle Magicians find the info as interesting and as "useful" as I do.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 05/06/09 11:42 AM

Is there a term for a Freudian slip involving only punctuation?

"disingenuously",

Jon
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Reason: comma, comma, comma chameleon...
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Postby Adrian Kuiper » 05/06/09 05:10 PM

I once worked with a woman who had that nasty habit of illustrating her quotes with her two hands....a most annoying habit.

Jon, your pickup was amazing!! You've earned the right to coin the word.

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Postby Matt Sedlak » 05/06/09 05:26 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:Interesting comment NCMarsh - However Houdini and Scarne were both very good at tooting their own horns and self promotion in my opinion and both of them - and more - I wouldn't say did to bad - self promoting themselves and their performing art and business.


Didn't Mickey MacDougal make way more money than Scarne though? Sometimes when people are too self-promoting it backfires on them.
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Postby NCMarsh » 05/06/09 08:42 PM

Honestly, Glenn, if you're reading it as "some magicians don't like other magicians that self promote" then you are mis-reading it.

You're also, from a marketing perspective, mis-reading your audience. There is a huge difference between what it takes to put butts in the seats of a matinee, and what it takes to build a technical reputation amongst your colleagues and peers. Enthusiasts of technical card magic, like New York restaurant patrons, enjoy being discoverers. They enjoy finding people, techniques, etc. about which others are unaware.

Your work is out there for us to see. People are obviously looking at it. If the work is good, it will find an audience -- as has been the case for folks like Bob Stencel, Chuck Smith, Giacomo Bertini, even Vernon and Erdnase.

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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/06/09 10:21 PM

Nathan - at this time - and I have no plans - I am not interested in marketing products - books, DVD's to magicians. I am not interested in doing lectures.

If I write or do a project - I have only put a few up for sale for a very short time. Then I end it. My book Glenn Bishop's Ace cutting and block transfer shuffle triumph's - the comb bound book - was only available for a short time - I think a month.

Then I put it up as a 7 non printable e-book download.

Selling magic to magicians really doesn't interest me at all. I also don't want to and I am not interested in being a magicians/magician. However I do work on magic and test the ideas that I come up with - like my punch work and my other work like culling and stacking. And at times I like to write them up and share them - using video, book, PDF, and DVD format.

Now some people like what I do and some don't. However at this time and over the next few years - I am not trying to sell anything to you or anyone.

Back in the 80's I was a lot better. To keep a long story short over the years - I have had my share of physical problems and have had to deal with what I would call a physical illness. I was physically ill when I performed three shows a night for 7 days at the magic castle several years ago.

Mike the host of the Magic Castle and Whit Hayden and several other Castle Members had no idea and I did not tell them. They were also surprised that I did nothing that week except my shows. They kept asking me why I don't get out and see the sights.

I just stayed in my hotel room - watched cable TV and did my shows. Mike the host kept coming in the close up gallery and one night he asked me to come out to the bar between shows and have some fun. I did not want to tell him it hurt to get up.

I thought my best trick was I did the shows - The audience seemed to like it - Ron Wilson asked me back over the phone - and no one knew - And even with the castle video footage of me doing the cups and balls at my web site - I don't think that anyone could tell.

I think my best trick today is that I am still in the game and I love what I do and I am still doing it. Even when I have days when shuffling cards hurts - I still do close up work in restaurants.

Well - that is all I have to say.

Good luck with your magic...
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/09/09 11:28 AM

Here is a bit more FYI on culling and stacking as I remember it for your enjoyment. The last magic lecture that I did any demo on culling was at the Magic Castle. At the time I was doing three shows a night in the close up gallery.

Two great card magicians that I sessioned with while I was there that week were Tony Picasso and Rich Cowley. I showed both of them my cutting the aces routine using my slant on the Stevens cull to cold cut the aces one at a time from a shuffled deck. As I remember both Tony Picasso and Rich Cowley really liked the idea at the time.

This routine was also on my first DVD that I was selling at the time. And from talking to magicians at the Castle there were not many magicians doing the culling work that I have been - shall we say - playing around with so to speak.

In the lecture I just explained the basic work using it to cut the aces from a shuffled deck and did not explain or demo any of the triumph shuffle work and the culling and stacking possibilities using the triumph shuffle. I have to say that the basic work I was doing at the time went over quite well for the Castle lecture audience - even when I think that there are not that many magicians that are really interested in this kind of shuffle work.

As a closing note I just re-did my web site to support the few magic lectures that I do - (very few). Because I am to often to busy doing shows to do magic lectures.

Well thanks in advance for reading this - good luck with your magic dreams - whatever they might be!

Just my opinion.
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Postby Cugel » 05/09/09 06:49 PM

Matt Sedlak wrote:
Glenn Bishop wrote:Interesting comment NCMarsh - However Houdini and Scarne were both very good at tooting their own horns and self promotion in my opinion and both of them - and more - I wouldn't say did to bad - self promoting themselves and their performing art and business.


Didn't Mickey MacDougal make way more money than Scarne though? Sometimes when people are too self-promoting it backfires on them.


I understand MacDougal was a stamp or coin dealer. At least in old age.
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Postby Matt Sedlak » 05/09/09 08:55 PM

I can't remember where I read it but it was something that stated MacDougal worked more often and made more money than Scarne. That is about all I know though. I'm sure there are others on here who would know more about this though.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/10/09 09:37 AM

Jay Marshall knew Mickey MacDougall and in the back of Magic Inc he was one of the magicians that I asked Jay about. According to Jay - Mickey did an act for clubs and was a club entertainer. He did the Buda paper's as part of the show giving one at each table and let the audience vanish a small object from their pocket.

The people that did the trick were really amazed as the story goes. He also liked and did the Svengali deck a lot. He also lectured on card sharping and told stories - in his lecture that were published in his book "Gamblers don't gamble".

He coined a saying that I like - "Every stranger isn't a card sharp but every card sharp is a stranger".

His cull is published and was the first cull I ever read on the subject of culling. Most magicians that are into culling that I have met know it or have read about it and I think it was published in his book "Card Mastery". I also think that his book Card Mastery is a hidden gem.

I don't know if he made more money than John Scarne. In one of the magic book I have Scarne on cards in the front it talks about Scarne charging a thousand dollars for a lecture or a show.

That was quite a bit of money in the 60's and it is still quite a bit of money today. Scarne also took part in the movie the Sting and did some close up work - including his Scarne seconds.

I think I remember reading in the 70's in the Vernon Touch that Scarne talked about making over a million dollars. An income that few magicians could boast about. I also think that Vernon said that part of that was due to the Scarne Gaming CO.

I think that both of them were great at self promotion.

Just my opinion.
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Postby David Alexander » 05/10/09 10:44 AM

Based on the historical record that comes to mind, I believe Scarne made more money than MacDougall. He wrote almost 30 books including two bios, and created a number of games sold through his company, John Scarne Games, Inc.

He invented Teeko in the mid-1940s, withdrew it, and re-launched it in the early 1950s. It sold well but, as I understand it, his inventory was wiped out in a warehouse flood, an event he could not recover from. Today, Teeko only lives on in the middle name of John's son, John Teeko Scarne.

John was the technical director for The Sting and was also a paid gambling consultant for various casinos. He made a mistake in trying to discredit Ed Thorp's approach to card counting.

I believe I remember reading that John's company also created premium games for advertising purposes.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/11/09 10:53 AM

Here was the "challenge".

To take the four aces - put them into different spots in the deck. Shuffle the deck - then by using a riffle shuffle cull and stack three aces "on the fly from the shuffled deck" - cull and stack three aces for a five hand game of draw poker.

The aces and the deck are not marked or tricked up in any way.

To do this I use the two shuffle Vernon Triumph shuffle that was published in the stars of magic.

The first demo is culling and stacking three aces on the fly from a shuffled deck. Then the second demo - I go after "all four aces" on the fly from a shuffled deck.

The neat thing for me is that after I put the aces in the deck - I have no idea where they are and I cull them and stack them on the fly - from a shuffled deck.

http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/Glennb ... riumph.wmv

The added cool thing for me is that with this technique I can take a new or borrowed deck of cards - have the deck shuffled and then cull and stack three or four of a kind using this technique and the "two shuffle Dai Vernon Triumph shuffle.

Now I ask again - is anyone going to post some video showing their own technique - something other than the triumph shuffle -doing the "challenge" as I stated in this post?

Just asking?
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Postby NCMarsh » 05/11/09 11:22 AM

Glenn,

Which of those conditions was not met by Cugel's video of the Stevens cull?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67dcfjhb ... annel_page

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Postby El Mystico » 05/11/09 12:59 PM

I think the trouble is, most of us would add an additional "challenge" - our art should entertain.
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