Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Jonathan Townsend » 04/15/09 02:43 PM

I remember a story about Charlie Miller a "Fatherly remembrance" that my Dad told me. He said that Charlie Miller did a show or a lecture in England. Magicians there got excited about seeing his card shark stuff and other card work.

When he got there he did the rice bowls - Chinese sticks and his act that he did for the lay audience. The magicians in England were disappointed as the story goes. Well in my dads opinion the reason Charlie Miller did his act instead of the card shark stuff that he did well in session was - the card shark stuff was "not" honed to perfection like his act was.



Jon, read what Glenn posted above. Quit being deliberately obtuse.


Ah, found the former. Kinda sad about the latter - but it's tough to catch all the signal when there's also lots of noise.

Perhaps it takes a magician to confuse tolerance with the right to give commands.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 04/16/09 07:23 PM

In this thread here on the Genii forum http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubb ... 18&fpart=3

Nikodemus Siivola said...

Finally, because I cannot contain this any longer: A CULL? After the multiple shift there is no need to cull anything, is there?


The subject matter was this video...

http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/Glennb ... lstack.wmv

Although I do agree that a shift like Marlo's simple shift wouldn't be used at the card table. And at the card table like in a show the moves "would be adapted" to the performing situation just as a card shark would adapt their moves to the protocol - rules - of the game and place that they happen to be playing cards in.

I used the simple shift to get the aces into the slug - in the video - because I thought at the time that just putting the aces "together" into the deck to make the slug - was a little boring.

But in magic here is when I "would do" a cull after a shift. As with Marlo's simple shift there is a key card and the idea is to put the aces into the deck. They end up together next to a key card so the magician can show face cards - and show the aces not on the top - spot the key card - get a break and then control the aces - or selected cards to the top of the deck.

I have found that using a cull to do the job - there is no need for a key card. All is needed is to shuffle the deck once after the simple shift once you table the deck.

Spot the aces and cull them to the top in one fast move. Also when using other shifts a cull can be used as an out if the shift is blown - or the deck the magician is using is dirty and the cards stick together making the magician miss one or two aces in the shift.

The cull can clean up those little performance problems that a magician might have when doing a multiple shift.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 04/18/09 12:28 PM

David Alexander wrote: Visiting Charlie was always fun. He'd sit dealing cards....tops, bottoms, centers, seconds. If someone asked to "see" his second he'd do some horrible thing and they were disappointed. Charlie would explain that they wanted to "see" his second. Properly done, they wouldn't be able to see anything, so he did it badly do they could see it. I understand he did that with others, too.

He was quite a character.


I never hand the pleasure or honor of meeting Charlie Miller however I did talk to him on the phone twice - and my Dad met and knew him (A Fatherly Remembrance story). The story goes that Charlie Miller was looking for stand up material and came into and watched my Dad do his night club show in Texas - several times.

My Dad was also a student of Erdnase so I think that he and Charlie Miller must have gotten along quite well.

However If I may add - most technical magic in cards like second dealing - centers - bottom's have tells. I knew and learned some stuff from Ed Marlo - and his second deal - like all second deals had a tell. I do not say this to say that Ed Marlo did not do his second deal "flawlessly" however in my opinion like may technical moves in card magic - "Flawlessly" is an opinion. And if you watch the Cardician DVD you may spot the tell.

As far as my video's My triumph cull stack - was viewed 350 times this month.

My Triple duke triumph video - was viewed - 113 times this month.

And the new video of me stacking and culling on the fly using the two shuffle Vernon Triumph shuffle was downloaded or viewed 65 times so far this month.

However if I may add - I make no claim as to doing the moves "flawlessly" for magicians. However to do them "flawlessly" for magicians - was not the overall goal of putting up the video's in the first place.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 04/18/09 01:04 PM

Glenn,

The phrase is "fatherly recollection."

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Postby Glenn Bishop » 04/19/09 03:17 PM

Sorry Dustin I find this kind of thing rather childish and not worth my time to respond.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 04/20/09 10:20 AM

To paraphase Jeremy Hillary Boob, PhD:
Sisyphus, Syphilis, Freud
This False Shuffle we try to avoid
When meaning is lost on those we accost
Neizche says it all gets destroyed.

*

The growing pains in our craft are interesting. We all grow older. Growing wiser hurts.

I hope those who have just started in our craft get the idea that we are going toward a more scholarly approach and manage to forgive the thrashings of those who conflate nostalgia with relevance and personal meaning with historical value.

Can meaning be sanitized for public discourse?
Can secrets coexist with scholarly history in publication?
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 04/20/09 02:45 PM

Obviously I need to remind Glenn that he was quoting me from a previous post in a previous thread and since the phrase he meant to quote was "fatherly recollection" (and he used "fatherly remembrance"), I simply was correcting him. There was NO other motivation beyond that.

That--I hope--is the end of it.

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Postby Glenn Bishop » 04/23/09 08:03 AM

Cugel, Denis Behr, Eoin O'Hare, El Mystico, mrgoat, Silly Walter, Nikodemus Siivola, Dustin Stinett and anyone.

In the spirit of good fun - I would love to see video of any of you guys stacking and culling together on the fly - or stacking and culling four aces from a slug - or stacking and culling from a slug three different hands for a five handed game like I do in my triple duke triumph video - using any kind of table riffle shuffle technique that is not the triumph shuffle as I use in my video.

Can you do these three different things as I do in my three video's using some other kind of riffle shuffle technique? Also using an ordinary deck of cards that are not tricked up or marked in any way. If so I would very much like to see that on video.

I consider my technique using the triumph shuffle a breakthrough because I have never seen as of yet any kind of riffle shuffle technique that has been published in magic a riffle shuffle technique that I can use that I can do the above three things that I demonstrate in my video - like I can by using the triumph shuffle.

I look forward to viewing and learning from your videos.

Thanks in advance.

Although I think stacking and culling multiple hands - stacking and culling together on the fly - using a riffle shuffle is harder to do than you might think.

Just my opinion.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/23/09 10:09 AM

Image

Just my opinion.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 04/23/09 11:05 AM

If I may add magician's will either have the ability or the "chops" to do what I have demonstrated in my three video's using some other riffle shuffle technique.

Or they "DON'T"!

Just my opinion!
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Postby mrgoat » 04/23/09 01:37 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:If I may add magician's will either have the ability or the "chops" to do what I have demonstrated in my three video's using some other riffle shuffle technique.

Or they "DON'T"!

Just my opinion!


OK then Glenn - I'll rise to your bait. Gimme a minute and I will record some stuff for you. Prepare to be fried.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/23/09 02:01 PM

Here you go Glenn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvGWJIIOZI

Just my opinion.
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Postby Jonathan Miller » 04/23/09 02:21 PM

I kinda stopped watching after a minute but then I watched the deal and almost fell out of my chair

mrgoat 1 - glennbishop 0
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Postby Tom Stone » 04/23/09 04:20 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:If I may add magician's will either have the ability or the "chops" to do what I have demonstrated in my three video's using some other riffle shuffle technique.

Or they "DON'T"!

But what is the effect?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 04/23/09 07:59 PM

The effect is that Mr. Magician, in the guise of a card cheat, can demonstrate his abilities to control cards. Whether or not that's a good thing is open to interpretation.
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Postby Tom Frame » 04/23/09 08:38 PM

Zing! That's a hoot, Damian. Well played.
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Postby Roger M. » 04/23/09 09:38 PM

Todays Headline:
"Goat Owns Bishop".
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 04/23/09 10:15 PM

powns. ownership implies responsibility.
Mundus vult decipi
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Postby Tom Stone » 04/24/09 12:22 AM

Richard Kaufman wrote:The effect is that Mr. Magician, in the guise of a card cheat, can demonstrate his abilities to control cards.

That's not an effect.
Going by common knowledge, a card cheat is expected to be able to control cards via covert handling.
Here, the plot, the actual handling and the audience's preconcieved ideas all coincides to the same thing: "Cards are controlled with secret sleights".
That's not an effect - that's the reality!
More in the genre of a flourish or a coin roll, than a magic effect. A skill demonstration.
But perhaps there is an latent effect here, not yet brought out? If that's the case, then...

What is the effect?
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Postby John M. Dale » 04/24/09 01:53 AM

mrgoat wrote:Here you go Glenn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvGWJIIOZI

Just my opinion.


Hey, Goaty,

I'm glad to see you've not lost the art of snark that I've admired since the a.m.s days watching you slay our Australian "friend." ;)

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Postby Pete McCabe » 04/24/09 02:17 AM

The effect is that a person painstakingly shuffles several cards into the right positions.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/24/09 04:33 AM

Pete McCabe wrote:The effect is that a person painstakingly shuffles several cards into the right positions.


Where's the script for that in your bloody book McCabe? How could you miss out something so obvious?

I feel disappointed, and although you were kind enough to personally make my copy of your book complete with the missing letter, I now feel let down.

Please publish an addendum to the book and release it for free or GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK.

Damian
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Postby Cugel » 04/24/09 04:43 AM

Glenn Bishop wrote:Cugel, Denis Behr, Eoin O'Hare, El Mystico, mrgoat, Silly Walter, Nikodemus Siivola, Dustin Stinett and anyone.

In the spirit of good fun - I would love to see video of any of you guys stacking and culling together on the fly - or stacking and culling four aces from a slug - or stacking and culling from a slug three different hands for a five handed game like I do in my triple duke triumph video - using any kind of table riffle shuffle technique that is not the triumph shuffle as I use in my video.


Challenge accepted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67dcfjhb ... annel_page
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Postby El Mystico » 04/24/09 06:08 AM

That's lovely Cugel, but - to anticipate Glenn - this is just culling. Glenn is talking about stacking AND culling. (although culling and stacking would probably be a better way round).
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Postby Cugel » 04/24/09 06:33 AM

El Mystico wrote:That's lovely Cugel, but - to anticipate Glenn - this is just culling. Glenn is talking about stacking AND culling. (although culling and stacking would probably be a better way round).


Yep, Glenn will likely decry it as not meeting his challenge, but only because he won't comprehend what it is he is seeing.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 04/24/09 08:59 AM

Cugel wrote:
El Mystico wrote:That's lovely Cugel, but - to anticipate Glenn - this is just culling. Glenn is talking about stacking AND culling. (although culling and stacking would probably be a better way round).


Yep, Glenn will likely decry it as not meeting his challenge, but only because he won't comprehend what it is he is seeing.

Sorry Cugel - even when I think the video is nice work it is "not what I am doing" and not even close to the goal that I went after in my three video's.

Try culling and stacking four aces from a slug that is not on the top of the deck - then try culling and stacking three different hands of "four of a kind" from a slug that is not on the top or the bottom of the deck.

Then try to cull and stack - three or four aces on the fly from a shuffled deck. "And you have no idea where the aces are in the deck". All this I might add without marking or tricking up the deck in any way. Or using a tricked up deck like belly strippers or marking or putting sand work on the aces. Or using a corner short or a short card.

I don't think that you can do it as I did in my three video's with any other kind of shuffle work. However I would be happy to be proven wrong. As I said in another thread - the video that you presented is nice - but not even close to what I am accomplishing in my three video's.

And mrgoat - your video was a "riot" thanks for such a great laugh!!!!

Just my opinion.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 04/24/09 09:00 AM

http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubb ... 04&fpart=1


Jim Maloney wrote:Steve has a point. The nastiness displayed on this thread, especially from Chris Aguilar, is unnecessary. You may not be a fan of Glenn's work, but the constant barrage of ugliness displayed toward him is, frankly, somewhat embarrassing.

This thread has been running in circles for a while now (some may say down the drain). I'm locking it.

-Jim


Richard Kaufman wrote:I'll over rule Jim here for one reason: no one except Glenn Bishop has given the original poster many leads on published methods of Riffle Stacking.

Let's remove Glenn Bishop from the picture for a while: Glenn, please don't post in this particular thread anymore. We get your point.

Those who think that Glenn's work is crap: don't post in this particular thread anymore. We get your point.

As to why the thread has devolved to this point, frankly I think Mr. Bishop's attitude brings out a mean ole' streak in some people and they feel compelled to tell him what they think and it's not a pretty sight (or site!). We're done with that in this thread.

Now if someone has something interesting to say about Riffle Stacking, please continue.


Jim Maloney and Richard Kaufman came close to nailing it in this above thread. The point is that in my opinion - there are magicians here that dont like ME.

So even if I presented the finest technical ability on earth - because the magicians dont like me and in my opinion some may even have some kind of a grudge or a vendetta against me - some in my opinion would still not like and try to find the flaws in my work and in my three videos. Just because they seem to like to jerk me around and argue about magic.

Some of this may go back to when I produced and sold my first DVD with Glenn Bishop Cuts the aces on it and I got much the same comments in blogs and in the Magic Caf about my way of doing my slant on the Stevens cull - one said that it was a pain to watch. And my answer is still - my audience likes it.

However in my opinion that does not bug me at all because I work for a living and my audience that I charge money for my magician service seem to love what I do and I have a track record of success for more than 25 - 35 years. As I remember there were magicians that said comments about Jack Pyles second deal and that they could spot it. And as I remember Jack didnt care and still made a living with it doing his bridge deal.

Nate Leipzig said it - or something like it - if they like you they will like your act. And in my opinion if I may add - flawless magic is only an opinion anyway.

That is all I have to say - in this thread.

Thanks everyone for the laughs and the kind words as I now close the door.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 04/24/09 09:29 AM

Perhaps if you stated your objectives
Then discussed your strategy for meeting those objectives
And then discussed the mertits of that strategy
And then offered a simple demonstration as proof of concept
More readers could understand what's going on
And we could read a better discussion than what's been
Mundus vult decipi
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Postby mrgoat » 04/24/09 09:42 AM

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Perhaps if you stated your objectives
Then discussed your strategy for meeting those objectives
And then discussed the mertits of that strategy
And then offered a simple demonstration as proof of concept
More readers could understand what's going on
And we could read a better discussion than what's been

Image
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Postby John M. Dale » 04/24/09 11:57 AM

Thanx, Goat. Now I have to clean the coffee off of my monitor.

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Postby mrgoat » 04/24/09 01:42 PM

John M. Dale wrote:Thanx, Goat. Now I have to clean the coffee off of my monitor.

JMD


I am here to serve.

:)
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Postby Cugel » 04/24/09 06:33 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:Sorry Cugel - even when I think the video is nice work it is "not what I am doing" and not even close to the goal that I went after in my three video's.


I have a prediction envelope here that has been held in the safe keeping of the manager of Lloyds of London for the past three weeks and which I have not once touched which, if the kind sir will perform his duty and open it now in front of the cameras, you will see contains a paper predicting that Mr.Bishop would react in exactly this manner. Thank you. Thank you very much.
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Postby Jonathan Miller » 04/25/09 11:31 AM

Is there any chance that Bishop is just like a really good troll? I don't care how big his ego is; NO ONE can think that video he made is actually deceptive..not even the creator. Plus his whole argument about Triumph being the name of the shuffle and not the trick, when anyone who made it past 2nd grade and has a copy of SoM can tell that isn't true. I dunno just seems to me like he wants attention and trolling gets him that.
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Postby Roger M. » 04/25/09 04:12 PM

According to his latest post at the Cafe, Glenn has left the building.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... rum=188&24
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 04/30/09 09:57 AM

Just FYI...

This weekend I am printing up a copy and comb binding it of the complete book - Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Shuffle Triumph's.

This is my complete work on the triumph shuffle and how to use it to cull - stack - and cull stack cards. As well as my ace cutting routine ideas.

And I am sending it with my Punch Cull (deal) DVD (Glenn Bishop Punch Deck Pro) to the Magic Castle Library this next week. I think that important work of this nature - like culling and stacking because the information is so rare - I think that important work like this should be in some of the important magic libraries - like to one at the Magic Castle - so future generations of magicians have good "reference" material.

Just my opinion.

Later on in the year I will adding one or two chapters to the book. Plus I will be writing my book on the punch deal - culling with the punch and a jog shuffle cull - plus I have plans to do a DVD on the Triumph shuffle.

Just FYI
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Postby NCMarsh » 04/30/09 12:44 PM

"You toot your own horn you make one sound, and it doesn't last long because you run out of breath. If a lot of other people are tooting your horn, it makes a lot of noise and the sound is going to be forever because everyone is doing it."

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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/06/09 11:13 AM

Interesting comment NCMarsh - However Houdini and Scarne were both very good at tooting their own horns and self promotion in my opinion and both of them - and more - I wouldn't say did to bad - self promoting themselves and their performing art and business.

Just sent the book Glenn Bishops ace cutting and block transfer shuffle triumph's - and my Glenn Bishop Punch Deck Pro - DVD-4 off to the magic castle library.

The most interesting thing in my opinion about the book is that it has a "workable" system of culling and stacking cards on the fly that is not that hard to do - using the triumph shuffle - and it "works".

However I am going to re-write the book and add 2 - 4 more chapters because there were quite a few things that I left out - on some added technique and some applications and how the cull can be used in magic.

I am one of those magicians that would rather have a comb bound book that I can hold and read rather than an non printable e-book - like the E-book copy (in 7 e-books) that used to be able to be downloaded from my old web site. For me I would rather have a good book than an e-book copy anyday.

The cool thing about the punch deal DVD is that it has footage of Jack Pyle doing his bridge deal - Plus I give tips that Jack Pyle gave me on the second deal. And then also once the work is in the deck - it is easy to find and cull the cards to the bottom or run then up in a five card game - for a demo of poker cheating - anytime.

I hope a few of the Magic Castle Magicians find the info as interesting and as "useful" as I do.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 05/06/09 11:42 AM

Is there a term for a Freudian slip involving only punctuation?

"disingenuously",

Jon
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Postby Adrian Kuiper » 05/06/09 05:10 PM

I once worked with a woman who had that nasty habit of illustrating her quotes with her two hands....a most annoying habit.

Jon, your pickup was amazing!! You've earned the right to coin the word.

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Postby Matt Sedlak » 05/06/09 05:26 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:Interesting comment NCMarsh - However Houdini and Scarne were both very good at tooting their own horns and self promotion in my opinion and both of them - and more - I wouldn't say did to bad - self promoting themselves and their performing art and business.


Didn't Mickey MacDougal make way more money than Scarne though? Sometimes when people are too self-promoting it backfires on them.
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