Favourite Pass/card control

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Geni2
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Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Geni2 » December 7th, 2008, 4:53 pm

Hi everyone,
Being a new member to the forum I felt I needed to post something up and decided to ask what peoples favourite pass/card control they like using. Also some advice on them such as how you may have improved it or ,what angle to perform etc.

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David Thomas
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby David Thomas » December 7th, 2008, 10:37 pm

Work on classic pass but use double undercut in regular situations until classic pass is perfect. That's what I'm trying to do at least.

Bill Duncan
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Bill Duncan » December 8th, 2008, 4:38 pm

You're looking in the wrong place. You can't learn a card control from an online forum. Further, people who are really good at card magic ALMOST NEVER answer posts like "what's your favorite method for the pass" so you end up getting lots of advise from people who aren't very good, but who love to post on magic fora.

Get Richard's video on the pass, or (my favorite) Earl Nelson's, or read Card College, all three resources offer a variety of methods. Pick the one you find fits you best.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 8th, 2008, 7:19 pm

My favorite Pass is my Half Jiggle when I'm in practice. When out of practice, I simply do the Pass witha body turn.
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Doc Dixon
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Doc Dixon » December 8th, 2008, 8:32 pm

Some of the very best tips on the pass are in The Complete Works of Derek Dingle by an obscure magic author currently residing in Washington DC.

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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Darryl Harris » December 8th, 2008, 8:41 pm

The La Paul Spread Pass, or The Thompson Pass.
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Geni2
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Geni2 » December 9th, 2008, 6:35 am

I've Read the complete works of Derek Dingle and would have to agree its one of the best sources for it as well as the other's thats been mentioned ,but one pass which is probably one of the top to use is Backstage which I saw Gregory Wilson perform at his Lecture, it looks so natural plus it can be viewed from all angles.

I remember meeting Richard Kauffman at convetion this year and asked him to demonstrate the Pass which I think he did beautifully.Plus thanks for the advice Richard I've been working on the sleight and hopefully improved it.

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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 9th, 2008, 10:25 am

Geni2 wrote:Hi everyone,
Being a new member to the forum I felt I needed to post something up and decided to ask what peoples favourite pass/card control they like using. Also some advice on them such as how you may have improved it or ,what angle to perform etc.


That depends on the circumstances - standing or sitting and where the most attentive person in the audience is looking from too. From there it also depends on the place in the routine and the actions going on before and after that moment. Way too difficult to suggest any "favorite" here as that's personal and what works well for me might not fit in with the rest of your approach to handling cards at all.

I'll take a pass on this one,

Jon
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castawaydave
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby castawaydave » December 9th, 2008, 2:56 pm

The Bluff Pass is very handy to know... :^D

Tom Denton
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Tom Denton » December 11th, 2008, 6:16 am

I would have to agree with Mr Townsend, that it's difficult to come up with an absolute favourite because it depends what's coming before and after the move. The one that feels most natural and looks best for me, in my hands, is a side-steal. I usually have a selection made from a dribble so I can hit the card with my left third finger as I replace the upper packet to form a side-jog, and I can then patter away with the deck in my right hand and perform the steal/control at my leisure.

Despite the side-steal being the most practical control for me, in terms of emotional attachment, my favourite is currently Erdnase's Open Shift, simply because of the amount of effort I've put, and continue to put, into mastering it. I doubt I'll ever use it in real life, but it's still lovely.

Oh, by the way, seeing as this is my first post on the forum, hello everyone.

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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Leonard Hevia » December 11th, 2008, 9:39 pm

There are a number of variables that determine the best pass for your situation. You don't want too many cards on the top half, roughly 15-20. I like the Dribble Pass--the cards just cascade between your hands, and nothing for the Hawks to see. Be that as it may, the best tips I've read in print so far:
1. The Riffle Pass:
The Complete Works of Derek Dingle
Miracles With Cards
2. The Dribble Pass:
Card College Volume 3 or 4?
[i]Roger's Thesaurus


The best visual tutorials:
Kaufman's On the Pass
Earl Nelson's The Lost Tapes. Great Elias Jiggle Pass here.
Ken Krenzel's Pass Video from L&L. Krenzel taught Dingle, who in turn taught Kaufman. Krenzel mentions on his video that you can't just learn the Pass from a textbook. You have to see it done.

magicbar
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby magicbar » December 15th, 2008, 12:55 pm

If you are having difficulty with the Classic Pass or others try Roger Klause's Bluff Bluff Pass. Frankly, if you are trying to impress someone with your ability to do a Pass there is hardly a better Pass to master.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 15th, 2008, 1:12 pm

What is a Bluff Bluff Pass?
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Joe Pecore
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Joe Pecore » December 15th, 2008, 1:19 pm

>What is a Bluff Bluff Pass?
A Bluff Pass with no cards in the right hand.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 15th, 2008, 3:06 pm

That's got to be older than Roger Klause.

And I have to disagree with magicbar: if you're trying to impress someone with your Pass, then don't engage in silly things like a Bluff Pass, or a fake twitch followed by a Double Lift. Put the time in and learn the Pass.
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Lance Pierce
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Lance Pierce » December 15th, 2008, 4:20 pm

I agree that if you're trying to impress someone with your pass, then you should probably just learn to do a pass (unless your method to simulate one is pretty devious). On the other hand, if you're trying to secretly control a card to the top of the deck, the Bluff Bluff Pass is, in many circumstances, as good as any other, and much better than some.

If there's a citation to the move earlier than Roger, I'm very interested in reading it. :)

Cheers,



L-

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 15th, 2008, 4:45 pm

Lance, if I understand what is being referred to as the Bluff Bluff Pass correctly, then you mean simply pretending to lift off the upper half of the deck, having a card replaced, and then plopping your empty hand down on top as if having replaced the top half. Correct?

If so, it's hard to believe it took someone hundreds of years to figure that out.
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 15th, 2008, 4:51 pm

I believe someone wrote a rather critical discussion of that strategy in one of their books... suggesting that an awkward action which has not been entrained into context could as well register with the audience as a "gimme your paw" moment.
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Curtis Kam
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Curtis Kam » December 15th, 2008, 6:20 pm

Somebody, on this forum I believe, traced the bluff/bluff back to well before Roger, and it was, in fact, the original method. Does that sound familiar to anyone here?

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 15th, 2008, 7:08 pm

Theoretically it should be easy to search for, but I've haven't had any luck.
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Joe Pecore
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Joe Pecore » December 15th, 2008, 7:50 pm

It's at the end of this thread: http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubb ... ber=170430 in a post by Reinhard Mueller:

"First explained in Ellis Stanyon's New Card Tricks, 2nd Series (1902), 5. Later by Dr. Elliott (ca1915 and 1923) and by Frederick Montague, M.P., in his Westminster Wizardry (1928), 75,
where he brought the card to the top."
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magicbar
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby magicbar » December 16th, 2008, 7:54 pm

Hey Lance, long time no speak with! Yes Richard I was joking a bit with my comment. The Pass (like all sleights) should be invisible/undetectable otherwise it would be a flourish, I suppose. The Bluff Bluff I learned from the Pierce/Klause In Concert book is one of those moves that can be a 'magician fooler'. However, I used it because it mimmicked my usual motions when asking to re-insert a card. I'm one that needs to invoke a good misdirection when doing a Pass. I'm not that good that I can have the audience to burn my hands when performing.

Lee Almond
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Lee Almond » December 16th, 2008, 8:41 pm

For some of the best resources check out Richard's video. As for the printed source which spoke to me is Jim Swain's "Miracles With Cards" book. A killer book BTW. Good luck finding a copy of Jim's book. Have a good one.

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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Bill Mullins » December 17th, 2008, 12:54 am

Another good video on the Pass is Jay Sankey's "Sankeytized". In the version with two volumes, I belive it is in Vol 2.

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Lance Pierce
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Lance Pierce » December 17th, 2008, 12:17 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Lance, if I understand what is being referred to as the Bluff Bluff Pass correctly, then you mean simply pretending to lift off the upper half of the deck, having a card replaced, and then plopping your empty hand down on top as if having replaced the top half. Correct?

If so, it's hard to believe it took someone hundreds of years to figure that out.


I'm sure Roger's not the first to conceive of it, although I'm pretty sure he wasn't aware of prior sources.

Yes, you have the idea right. Your use of the word "simply," though...

The concept is simple, but I've never been able to do it to my satisfaction. Roger was able to get a perfect illusion out of it to where I would have sworn he had half the deck in his right hand and the other packet was thin. He also got a nice auditory illusion out of it where it sounded exactly like he lightly slapped the upper packet down on the lower. It was a fingernail thing. I think it's one of those moves you just have to see. And hear. :)

Even 20 years or more after the move was published, Roger would still bring it up from time to time, excited about some new finesse he'd come across or some touch someone showed him. He was all over a Bill Goodwin idea once that he thought was absolutely beautiful. That's just the way he was...nothing was ever finished.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 17th, 2008, 2:02 pm

In relative terms, it is indeed "simple." Much easier than learning a proper Double Lift, for example.
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Jack Turk » December 21st, 2008, 5:07 pm

I just spent two hours shoveling snow
so forgive me if this sounds crabby...

IMO, you find a couple ways to control
the chosen card and practice them until
you have them down invisible and cold.

One of these methods may include the pass.
Or not. It really doesn't matter.

Then focus all your energy on a great
presentation. Because that's what the
customer cares about, not the sleight.

--J
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http://GetLeadsLikeCrazy.com

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Lance Pierce
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Lance Pierce » December 21st, 2008, 6:41 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:In relative terms, it is indeed "simple." Much easier than learning a proper Double Lift, for example.


Well, since the difficulty of either goes beyond the actual mechanics of the moves themselves, I find them both about equally challenging.

But that's neither here nor there. ;)

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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Philippe Billot » December 22nd, 2008, 5:29 am

To my knowledge, the very best control was described in Genii, Vol. 42, N 3, march 1978, page 176 by Gary Goldberg (IMHO)

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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Darryl Harris » December 22nd, 2008, 8:22 am

Philippe ... You're a very funny guy.
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Philippe Billot » December 22nd, 2008, 9:24 am

Good, a real reader, at least !

Matt Richman
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Matt Richman » December 27th, 2008, 9:41 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:That's got to be older than Roger Klause.

And I have to disagree with magicbar: if you're trying to impress someone with your Pass, then don't engage in silly things like a Bluff Pass, or a fake twitch followed by a Double Lift. Put the time in and learn the Pass.


BUT, if you're out late at a convention, just pull out a Svengali deck and you can fool anyone with the pass.

Lee Almond
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Lee Almond » December 28th, 2008, 6:07 pm

For a late night convention fooler I have used Frank Thompson's half-fast pass from the Eddie Fields book. It is just one of those buried goodies. Also, Paul Curry has the Tap Pass in the World's Beyond book that is cool.

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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Richard Perrin » December 30th, 2008, 2:42 am

I enjoy the classic pass front of deaf group without any worry about the noise! Yes, I am practice on it since I bought "the pass" DVD that young man who happen to be our present magazine editor. Thanks Richard!

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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Feras Kharboush » December 30th, 2008, 12:31 pm

No one's using Marlo ideas? there is a version of the Wrist turn pass in New Tops that is very useful ( the one with deck held deep, thumb at corner ), especially when sitting. While too covered, though very good.

R. Paul Wilson has a nice cover for the Dr.Elliot pass. Joel Givens has a terrific pass to use as a control, I think its called Backstage pass ( same name as a pass by Greg Wilson, but entirly different mechanics )

On the subject of passes, anyone doing Gary Ouellet's The Jig? I find Gary's contribution to Kaufman's Half Jiggle very minor, and can be thought of by anyone who studies the pass ( I actually was doing it by mistake when I first learn Half Jiggle off Kaufman's DVD ). Maybe it looked great when Gary does it, if anyone has the demonstration video for the book, would love to know how it looked in Gary's hands. Maybe its one of these obvious ideas thats often neglected, with only few, like Gary, trying to work out the kinks and make something out of it.

I'm saying this because I'm a big fan of Ouellet :)
Last edited by Feras Kharboush on December 30th, 2008, 12:41 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: adding stuff
It takes alot of work to make it seem like your not working at all.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 30th, 2008, 12:45 pm

When I was in Toronto with David Copperfield working on the Project Magic book, Ouellet was in his employ at the time. Gary asked me to teach him my Half Jiggle, which I did, and which he promptly put in his book without credit to me.

For anyone who wants to do a fairly easy and utterly invisible Pass, Steve Draun's handling of the Hofzinser/Herrmann Pass, "The Midnight Shift" is excellent. Either Steve's original handling in Secrets Draun from Underground, or the handling by Dingle in the Collected Almanac (it's called The Graveyard Shift) is good. Both serve different purposes. I just taught them in my workshops at the International Magic convention in London.
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Feras Kharboush » December 30th, 2008, 4:26 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:When I was in Toronto with David Copperfield working on the Project Magic book, Ouellet was in his employ at the time. Gary asked me to teach him my Half Jiggle, which I did, and which he promptly put in his book without credit to me.

To quote him, he says: "The arc of the right hand was the creation of Richard Kaufman. In the Jig, I have added the Teeterboard (me:= the side squaring action) and angled starting position, and like Kaufman, opted for less jiggles and more of a smooth series of squaring actions"
Gary points out his contributions, which I think anyone with a basic understanding of the pass would think of. I think he should've put more thoughts on this, get permissions .. etc, anyways ...

Speaking of the Midnight shift, those who want to see Draun doing it, can visit this page: http://stevedraun.com/movies.htm

Bill Malone had an interesting way of doing the move in Trapdoor mag, called Graveyard Fan. Its in the same issue that contains Joel Given's pass.
It takes alot of work to make it seem like your not working at all.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 30th, 2008, 4:56 pm

What he did was virtually identical to what I do, and he didn't ask my permission to publish it.
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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Feras Kharboush » December 31st, 2008, 5:08 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:What he did was virtually identical to what I do, and he didn't ask my permission to publish it.

Which is my point. I honestly get the impression that he wanted to publish it, yet avoiding to get permission he thought he had to add points so the publishing would seemingly go justified. This led to adding obvious very tiny details for sake of adding, rather than solid technique.

This is all speculation on my part, maybe Gary just put the move with a good nature too, thinking that the obvious, extremely minor additions are justified .. These only can be verified when the other party is still around ...

The book is long out of print I think, hard to find .. anyways,

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Re: Favourite Pass/card control

Postby Tenthumbs » January 2nd, 2009, 1:03 pm

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Cervon's Free-Turn Pass (or its many variants).

As far as Ouellet goes, he's got plenty of company. I can't count the number of no-value-added pass/shift variations in my own tiny library and, in fact, no longer pay much attention to anything but sea changes.


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