Magic Square

Instead of mentally projecting your mentalism thoughts, type them here.

Postby 000 » 11/13/08 08:45 AM

Being an absolute novice iro this item but keen to learn, my question

What manuscripts/ effects/ versions etc do you recommend?
Thanks.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 11/13/08 09:15 AM

There was a longish discussion about this a few months ago - run the search function and you'll find it.

Take care, Ian
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Postby Tony Razzano » 11/13/08 11:13 AM

I highly recommend Doug Dyment's book, "Mindsights".

www.deceptionary.com/mindsights.html
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Postby Rick Ruhl » 11/13/08 04:36 PM

Harry Anderson's Squaresville manuscript. Awesome presentation. I do it all the time..
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Postby 000 » 11/14/08 01:40 AM

Thank you gentlemen. Ive heard Archer also does a good routine.........any comments? ( comparative)
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 11/14/08 07:15 PM

Mr. Archer's routine is very funny, but it's very character driven.

His solution is quite good. The great thing is that it's on his "Educating Archer" DVDs and you get a bunch of other fine material to mull over as well. (And I have to admit to watching these discs just for the entertainment value.)

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Postby Harry Lorayne » 11/14/08 07:34 PM

Don't, repeat - don't - look up my method/presentation of the magic square. You can see me do it on one of my DVDs, but don't - repeat - don't - check it out. A couple of versions are taught in my current book, LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, vol. 2 - I've taught it in books since the early 1970s, but don't - repeat, don't - check 'em out. Too many are doing it now. HL
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Postby John Archer » 11/18/08 09:09 PM

Harry Lorayne wrote: Don't, repeat - don't - look up my method/presentation of the magic square. You can see me do it on one of my DVDs, but don't - repeat - don't - check it out. A couple of versions are taught in my current book, LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, vol. 2 - I've taught it in books since the early 1970s, but don't - repeat, don't - check 'em out. Too many are doing it now. HL


LoL I feel compelled to look that up... :-)
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Postby Darren Lawbuary » 11/18/08 09:47 PM

'Ahead of the Pack' by Jack Avis and Lewis Jones.

The magic square I use EVERY gig, without fail.

Peace, respect.

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Postby Donal Chayce » 11/18/08 09:50 PM

Geoffrey Durham has a terrific routine in "Professional Secrets."
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Postby NCMarsh » 11/19/08 08:55 PM

My favorite versions are Durham's, and two of Berglas' versions (the birthday magic square, and the version he put together for the celebration of a loved one)

I do think that, right now, the trick is overexposed and part of the generic stand-up repertoire....
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Postby 000 » 11/20/08 08:09 AM

Question for Harry Lorayne:

One effect, using mnemonics, was outlined in Corinda"s 13 steps to Mentalism. Involves taking 6 digits from a series of banknotes, and writing them down. You,as the performer, must quicky form a series of words utilizing those numbers,and then remember them in order. This will allow you to reel of the numbers (without looking)

My point/question is this........it is damn hard thinking that quickly, instantly coming up with a word ( that incorporates the letters allocated to each number) Any tips?

PS When I want to show friends something magical, I show them your dvd where you have memorized the names of the entire audience. WOW WOW AND WOW.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 11/20/08 06:47 PM

000: It's just as easy and as fast to do the long-digit number as it is to do the names/faces - even easier/faster. It is for me and for literally hundreds of thousands of my students. Bob Elliott used to demonstrate at my first classes when I was running the Harry Lorayne School of Memory. People would call out digits, and I'd write them on the blackboard. I'd take about 25 digits. Bob rattled off the number the instant I wrote the last digig, and said "go Bob." Then he rattled off the number backward. I taught the students to do the same thing when we came to that lesson. HL.
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Postby David Alexander » 11/20/08 08:23 PM

Years ago, when I visited David Roth, the Grand Old Man of Memory Training, as I walked into his house he told me to remove a dollar bill from my wallet and hand it to him. He glanced at it for a moment and then, as he handed it back to me, said, "At any time during our visit you can ask for the serial number of the bill, any number in any place in the bill, or the full number forwards or backwards." He didn't miss a single digit.

The training stays with you and in no small way keeps your mind active and your brain sharp. Mr. Roth was 94 at that visit.
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Postby brandes » 03/29/09 09:29 AM

some of magic square method are available here , you may check it at magic trick section
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Postby the Larry » 03/29/09 01:37 PM

I found this quite helpful: http://www.lybrary.com/magic-square-effects-a-5.html

And now I am trying to locate Chuck Hickok's Diagonal Magic Square which a friend recommended.
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Postby David Alexander » 03/29/09 01:45 PM

Chuck's Diagonal Magic Square was a limited release. Most who bought it don't seem willing to sell.
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Postby the Larry » 03/29/09 04:57 PM

Money can change people's mind quickly :-)
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Postby Pete Biro » 04/07/09 08:40 PM

HARRY LORAYNE's so good... It is so simple and it kills. I have a terrible memory, so I have all the info needed written right on a big marking pen.

I saw Harry Anderson do his... it is a totally amazing presentation... is it in print anywhere?
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Postby Steve Bryant » 04/07/09 09:20 PM

Harry has sold it at lectures. Try arranging a purchase via Ricky Boone at the magic shop in Asheville:

http://www.magicxtwo.com/
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Postby 000 » 05/26/10 11:47 AM

I have come across a booklet by Sam Dalal, Patterns of Perfection: The inner secrets of the Magic Square. Here the author states that he he....

'......has an approach which I believe is better, more rational, easier to master, and more versatile than the ones mentioned above'(was referring to Heath, Meyer and Snader amongst others).

Any comments?
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Postby 000 » 05/29/10 11:55 AM

Im hoping Harry Lorayne may have an opinion on this.
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Postby Lawrence mark » 05/30/10 06:09 AM

I use a simple version of this which is described in Bert Allerton's small and excellent book on close up magic. For practical purposes it is all that is needed.

I use it in connection with another business I am involved in besides magic. Incidentally I came across a numerologist that I admire very much who uses it in every reading. At the end of a session he does the magic square and points out that it is a talisman to protect the client. He tells them that ancient noblemen used to carry magic squares into battle to protect them. After doing a regular numerology reading he does the magic square saying. "This won't tell you anything about your life but it does prove that numbers are mysterious"

Incidentally it occurs to me and no doubt has occurred to other people that with the aid of a swami gimmick quite a close up feat could be accomplished. You have the square filled in before hand except for the key empty squares. You ask someone to name a two digit number between 24 and 100. As soon as you hear it you do the required calculations and fill in the missing numbers while you are chattering. You then show what a mental marvel you are by displaying your complicated prediction.

I have never heard of anyone doing this. It is a product of my own brilliant mind but I suppose someone else may have thought of it. It seems an obvious ploy. I have never actually performed my own idea. I bet it would work well though.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 05/30/10 07:40 AM

I still think Chuck Hickok's Diagonal Magic Square is hard to beat. I've done it on stage and close up, with the grid drawn on the back of a business card.

Ian
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Postby El Mystico » 05/30/10 12:38 PM

Chuck's is the only one I've been able to remember, since you remember a pattern, not numbers.

Dan Brown's "Lost Symbol" has a section on the impossibility of magic squares..let's hope that makes it to the film!
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Postby Michael Daniels » 07/01/10 12:59 PM

I have a version of the magic square which, though a little more difficult to do than Harry Lorayne's well-known method, has the advantage that it can be repeated for the same audience. There is also an interactive magic square generator that you can use to test yourself when learning the method.

http://www.mindmagician.org/msquare.aspx
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Postby Jonathan Pendragon » 07/26/10 09:45 AM

Harry Anderson's work on the magic square is inspired. His booklet "Squaresville" not only gives you a unique presentation, it renders a wonderful history and philosophy regarding this effect.

I recently presented my own magic square at the Magic Castle and Cal Magic as part of the new performance style I call "Metaphysics" (the OCD act). I wanted to present an effect that involved pattern recognition. I talk about my love for astronomy and my ability at very early age to form the constellations 3D in mind, to form spatial relationships. I use the square to demonstrate this ability.

I really do have OCD and I became an astronomer at age 5 so the "backstory" is legit. The magic square can be a performance platform for your personality. Harry's routine certainly proves that.

Jim Steinmeyer presents a wonderful idea, a Sudoku magic square, in his book "Techniques and Understanding." A square update, brilliant.

If you want to look like a math wiz, google John von Neumann, game theory, prime numbers, fibernacci sequence, Pi, Phi, Kieth numbers and just for fun 47 and 42. It will give you a background on just how cool math can be and make your square all the more entertaining. In showbiz all things are good things except boring things.
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Postby Kamal » 07/27/10 11:07 PM

Although not entirely original, the method taught on John Archer's DVD has served me well for many performances.

It's easy to do, and does away with some discrepancies other methods may have.
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Postby IrishMagicNews » 08/18/10 06:32 AM

Donal Chayce wrote:Geoffrey Durham has a terrific routine in "Professional Secrets."


As a by the way this is an exceptional book.
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Postby Xavier » 02/14/11 02:06 PM

I use Jermays method available on penguin magic. Great effect easy to remember.

Here's a video of me performing a method. The psychology test demo is not new it dates back to an old clipping in Annemans book, however he predicted a birth date.

The demo also hides some dirty work for another effect that comes later:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW_ABeUjjxY
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Postby Doug Dyment » 02/25/11 08:29 PM

Chuck's Diagonal Magic Square is excellent, but it isn't a traditional magic square (where you create a square that adds up to a chosen number).

Although the square may be a bit overused in platform work (though mostly in the opinions of magicians), it's a killer walk-around piece. If you draw a personalized magic square on the back of your business card, it's unlikely that the recipient will ever throw it away. You need to use a better method than the popular "just modify these four numbers", though, as people will compare their squares and you don't want them looking mostly alike!
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Postby Ian Kendall » 02/26/11 05:40 AM

Chuck's Diagonal Magic Square is excellent, but it isn't a traditional magic square (where you create a square that adds up to a chosen number).


Um, yes it is. What makes it better than other squares is that you create the total by filling in one diagonal - adding these gives you the chosen number. You then have to work around these numbers, which looks that much more impressive to real people (based on feedback I've had).

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Postby KenAbbott » 02/28/11 04:31 PM

Which do you think is the best presentation for the Magic Square? Openly obtaining a number and creating the magic square for the spectators OR secretly getting a number someone is "merely thinking of" then preparing the magic square.

It seems that presentation one would be merely a display of skill and intellect, while presentation two would be more in the mentalism field. Is one better than the other?
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Postby Ian Kendall » 02/28/11 04:56 PM

Depends if you are a mentalist or not.

Horses for courses.
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Postby KenAbbott » 02/28/11 05:20 PM

The reason for my question was that Chuck Hickok is a mentalist, as is Alain Nu. Chuck has the audience openly name a number and Alain secretly obtains the thought of number. Although both are mentalists they use different presentations.

I was curious as to opinions as to whether one presentation is stronger.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 02/28/11 05:29 PM

One is better for Alain, and the other is better for Chuck.

With presentations, it is completely subjective - one man's meat is another man's poison and all that. Character is individual, and thus so it the choice of presentation.

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Postby Harry Lorayne » 02/28/11 07:14 PM

ken: Check out my Magic Square presentation on volume 4 of the "Best Ever" DVD set. It's the only one I've ever used. Not for everyone, of course. HL.
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Postby Jonathan Pendragon » 03/03/11 11:13 AM

There is also a question of inherent logic within the performance. The effect is by nature mathematical in both method and appearance. A mentalist presenting the Magic Square, regardless of intent, displays an implied mental facility beyond the intuitive. This effects the rest of the show and the audience's impression of the performer's skill set.

My father was a math wiz who was a little disappointed that his son was only interested in the wiz part. Math fascinates me, but I am not my dad. The Magic Square I perform is presented as pattern recognition without the benefit of theoretical comprehension. It's not really math or mentalism. Everything else in my performance frames this presentation, it has to or I could never make my claim seem plausible. I set up an inherent logic and then my character has to live by it or the credibility of my show suffers.
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Postby SteveP » 03/09/11 06:47 PM

Bill Cushman has taken Magic Squares in a different direction with an ebook called Subliminal Square he released a couple of years ago:

" Instead of the mentalist rapidly completing the square with a number provided by an audience member, using a Subliminal Square he rapidly implants a number into the subconscious mind of an audience member!"

http://www.outlaw-effects.com/store/the-arsenal/e-books/subliminal-squares.html

If anyone has an issue with doing the math under fire, this presentation removes that problem.
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/10/11 12:38 AM

Harry Anderson has a GREAT VERSION... SEE CURRENT GENII. For me? Harry Lorayne's (I have the "cues" written right on the side of my marker pen.)
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