What is your favorite torn and restored card effect?

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby David Thomas » 10/05/08 01:50 AM

Hi all what is your favorite torn and restored card effect? Try and list something other than reformation, to keep it unique!

I have not come across many Torn and restored effects so far but I really like the diversity and the way everything flows so smoothly in the complete torn and restored card in the complete works of derek dingle.
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Postby A1exM » 10/05/08 05:04 PM

I like JC Wagner's T&R card from "7 Secrets" He also has a jumbo version in his "commercial magic of" book
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Postby The Magic Apple » 10/06/08 12:12 AM

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Postby Silly Walter » 10/08/08 09:39 PM

The one Kenton Knepper does on his video. LOL. I'm kidding, that's like the worst one ever.

I do like Danny Garcia's effect Torn. I had teh same reaction Paul Harris did.
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Postby Michael Pascoe » 10/14/08 06:36 PM

There have been many good torn and restored card tricks out there, including Paul Harris, but they all have one fault. You cant restore the the final piece at the end. If I was a layperson, I would wonder why the magician couldnt restore that too.

Thats why I also like Garcias Torn. It fits this requirement for me. Of course it takes sleight of hand. If you were going to do a good torn and restored effect there has to be some kind of finger flinging involved.

I havent performed it yet, but someone was watching me as I was practicing it. They seem to like it. Still need more practice because I am a perfectionist. I like to get every detail perfect before performing for an audience.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 10/14/08 07:03 PM

Folks have been doing torn and restored cards where the card winds up entirely restored for generations.

Admittedly those impromptu and semi-impromptu methods derived from the Paul Harris item leave you with one quarter card (see Bill Duncan's book) though again that's just one branch on the family tree for this trick which has a long history.
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Postby David Thomas » 10/14/08 11:15 PM

Although I said list one other than reformation it's the best because it's visual and fully restored, and can be handed out at the end, the only problem being it's extreme difficulty............torn by garcia good as well in my opinion.
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Postby El Mystico » 10/15/08 02:49 AM

Garcia's torn looks good, but is anyone doing it for real people? It seems to me to be very angly, so I wonder if it is a YouTube trick....maybe I'm wrong.
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Postby mrgoat » 10/15/08 08:35 AM

El Mystico wrote:Garcia's torn looks good, but is anyone doing it for real people? It seems to me to be very angly, so I wonder if it is a YouTube trick....maybe I'm wrong.


I worked it for a few months, then gave up.

It's not so much that it's angley, it's the 'perfect' lining up of the cards I found very hard to consistently do right.

The angles are actually very good, but FOR ME, this lining up of cards I found too fiddly. Of course on camera, you would have much more leeway (sp?) with this than performing in the real world.
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Postby Vraagaard » 10/15/08 08:44 AM

Yves Doumerque Ripped and Restored
Huron Low: The T&R project

Is both really great sources. I've been around a lot of these effects and always goes back to Ripped and Restored as a piece by piece restoration and Huron Low's Fire In The Hole as (cut and restored version) my favourite sources. Garcia Torn is also great but I personally prefer Ripped and Restored by Yves Doumerque.

Brent Brauns Torched and Restored has some great moments also with a different MO.

Best regards

Jan
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Postby Silly Walter » 10/15/08 07:07 PM

Vraagaard wrote:...

Brent Brauns Torched and Restored has some great moments also with a different MO.

Best regards

Jan


I am glad you brought this one up. Brent Braun's routine is wonderful even though it isn't a one piece at a time restoration. I haven't used it but I am pretty sure it plays very well.
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Postby William Belknap » 10/15/08 07:38 PM

The cleanest I have ever seen is by Brent Braun's Torched and Restored. It can be done "in your face." You also end up clean and the card BTW is signed by the spectator.
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Postby Ryan Matney » 10/16/08 02:02 AM

mrgoat wrote:
El Mystico wrote:Garcia's torn looks good, but is anyone doing it for real people? It seems to me to be very angly, so I wonder if it is a YouTube trick....maybe I'm wrong.


I worked it for a few months, then gave up.

It's not so much that it's angley, it's the 'perfect' lining up of the cards I found very hard to consistently do right.

The angles are actually very good, but FOR ME, this lining up of cards I found too fiddly. Of course on camera, you would have much more leeway (sp?) with this than performing in the real world.


I agree. The alignment is the real hurdle to overcome when learning the routine. I've just started working on the trick myself and I'm not quite there yet.

I think it looks better than 'reformation' overall. The handling is not even especially difficult but the alignment problem is hard to get down, particularly with the last piece.

I saw Garcia do this live at a convention and it looked great. I think it can be used in the real world but it's not a strolling/worker. But a lot of the tricks mentioned here are not practical in that way.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 10/16/08 03:20 AM

If you want a quick and (relatively) easy complete restoration, I'm quite partial to Sankey's Cardboard Contortionists.

Don't overlook Hoodwink, either.

I've seen Torn used on stage to great effect, and I've seen Harris' Ultimate Rip off used as well. If you have any problems with a three quarter restore, check out Tubthumping and Mike Close's routine (the latter is for the wonderful Wagner method).

Take care, Ian
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Postby mrgoat » 10/16/08 07:17 AM

Ian Kendall wrote:Don't overlook Hoodwink, either.


Does Hoodwink work for anything other than a camera?
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Postby Ryan Matney » 10/16/08 01:14 PM

Hoodwink is something I thought was rediculous when it was first published. I thought it would never fool anyone.

But, for some reason, I tried it a few times under pressure. Probably because it requires little practice and once I learned what it was it has been easy to remember.

I've now used the trick for real people more than any other T & R card. It's a real worker. As time has passed I've seen more and more value in it. I like it.
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Postby mrgoat » 10/16/08 01:25 PM

Well I am surprised. I bought it when I was younger and read the blurb on the back and bought it.

When I read it I was really pissed off. It was one of those lessons in life we all go through about magic marketing.

It annoyed me so much maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance?

I just never thought it would fly in the real world.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 10/16/08 01:38 PM

Ben Harris addresses the issues around Hoodwinked in his monograph Quarks and Quirks (Media T, 2000) within an effect called Wink Wink. A review I wrote when it was published can be found here. I think the book is still in print.

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Postby Ian Kendall » 10/16/08 02:04 PM

Damian - give it a go, at least a couple of times. If it still doesn't fly, then at least you tried. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

As for Wink Wink, I think it detracts from the purity of the effect; okay, you end clean, but at the cost of the impromptu nature. Better approaches have been made (as well as less good ones) - check the last Tomo Maeda issue for the best one (I believe it's similar to the approach used by Oscar Munoz, but I'm not 100% sure on that).

The advantages of the three methods I posted above are that they are all impromptu - you start with one (or two) cards, and that's it. Personally I think the 'it's not completely restored' angle is a magician's hangup - I can't remember hoards of spectators complaining before Guy showed up.

If you present the effect correctly, this shouldn't be a problem; again - look at Bill's book, or the Tommy Wonder display for the Harris trick. If you want to stray from the clean and narrow, there is also Alexander de Cova's flash restorarion which is on one of his videos, and an old Magic, and Mike Close's routine for the Wagner routine.

Now, I'm not saying that Ripped and Restored or Torn, or any of the other million and a half similar methods are not worthy of study - that would be daft - but it's useful to have an impromptu method or two in the arsenal for emergency use.

Take care, Ian
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 10/16/08 02:48 PM

Ian Kendall wrote:Personally I think the 'it's not completely restored' angle is a magician's hangup - I can't remember hoards of spectators complaining before Guy showed up.


I can, and it pre-dates GH. Its the reason I went to a fully restored version (detailed in the review in Q and Q). I perform in social and work situations, so people are more inclined to say things like what about that piece?

This all goes back to the 1970s (I was in school). When Pete Biro conducted a contest for a T&R card in Genii where the quarter was reattached, my entry was based on the Karrell Fox routine (which I used), but was quite impractical. However, that led me to dispensing with the quarter (since the card is signed) and results in an impromptu fully restored card with no questions asked. Ive been doing it for yearsstill do itand there are lots of people who have kept the card over the years and show it to me when I see them.

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Postby Glenn Bishop » 10/16/08 04:46 PM

I would pick Charlie Miller's routine for a torn card and a full restoration - I think that it is in the book "an evening with Charlie Miller".

But that would be just my opinion.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 10/16/08 04:51 PM

Dustin - fairy nuff. Perhaps one day I'll get to see your version.

Take care, Ian
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Postby Pete McCabe » 10/16/08 07:06 PM

In his manuscript "Torn and Restored", John Carney makes a fascinating comment: (paraphrasing) If the restoration is visual enough, no one will care if the card is signed.

John provides a very visual and offbeat method in the manuscript, and several other very cool ideas. Well worth tracking down.

The De Cova version previously mentioned is also sublimely visual.
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Postby David Thomas » 10/16/08 08:35 PM

There's a youtube video of Ascanio doing a torn and restored but it's all in Spanish. Not the point though, can anyone tell me what Torn and restored effect or whose handling he is using?

Ascanio

Thanks,
David
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Postby Jim Maloney » 10/16/08 10:38 PM

David,
It's his handling of Marlo's handling of LePaul's "Impromptu Torn and Restored Card". The three handlings can be found in:

1. Ascanio: The Magic of Ascanio, Volume 2: Studies of Card Magic
2. Marlo: The Cardician
3. LePaul: The Card Magic of Paul LePaul

Hope this helps.

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Postby David Thomas » 10/16/08 11:40 PM

Thanks Jim, it helps.
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Postby mrgoat » 10/17/08 07:21 AM

Dustin Stinett wrote:Ben Harris addresses the issues around Hoodwinked in his monograph Quarks and Quirks (Media T, 2000) within an effect called Wink Wink. A review I wrote when it was published can be found here. I think the book is still in print.

Dustin


Interesting. Thank you Mr S.
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Postby mrgoat » 10/17/08 07:23 AM

Ian Kendall wrote:Damian - give it a go, at least a couple of times. If it still doesn't fly, then at least you tried. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

As for Wink Wink, I think it detracts from the purity of the effect; okay, you end clean, but at the cost of the impromptu nature. Better approaches have been made (as well as less good ones) - check the last Tomo Maeda issue for the best one (I believe it's similar to the approach used by Oscar Munoz, but I'm not 100% sure on that).

The advantages of the three methods I posted above are that they are all impromptu - you start with one (or two) cards, and that's it. Personally I think the 'it's not completely restored' angle is a magician's hangup - I can't remember hoards of spectators complaining before Guy showed up.

If you present the effect correctly, this shouldn't be a problem; again - look at Bill's book, or the Tommy Wonder display for the Harris trick. If you want to stray from the clean and narrow, there is also Alexander de Cova's flash restorarion which is on one of his videos, and an old Magic, and Mike Close's routine for the Wagner routine.

Now, I'm not saying that Ripped and Restored or Torn, or any of the other million and a half similar methods are not worthy of study - that would be daft - but it's useful to have an impromptu method or two in the arsenal for emergency use.

Take care, Ian


Thanks for the comprehensive reply Ian.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 10/17/08 01:38 PM

One of the odd things about doing the torn and restored card is the question of what to do with - or how to get rid of the torn card pieces after the trick?

That is one of the reason's why when doing table magic from table to table - I liked the Charlie Miller Routine.

However I also like the Paul LePaul routine that was in the card magic from LePaul. But that has the problem of what to do with the torn card pieces after the trick was over and I went to the next trick - and later the next table.

One of the magicians I used to session with in my Early Years was a magician - Al Bach. We came up with the idea of having a deck box filled with torn card pieces. As part of the patter story after the card was signed and then torn - We would remove the box and dump a pile of torn card pieces from a second deck box on the table.

That is after the card was torn and put in the deck like in the LePaul routine. Then we would do a Han Ping Ching move to get rid of the pieces that were in the deck (as in the LePaul routine) and add them to the torn pieces that were on the table - that came from this deck box.

Now the deck was clean and then can be riffled and the torn card produced as in the LePaul method. Because the torn card pieces went from the deck to the pile of card pieces that were dumped onto the table.

However in later years I added a deck switch to the trick using the deck box with the torn pieces to climax the torn card pieces that were put back into the box - they restore - and then a full deck is removed from the box - and with that restored deck - getting a double restoration climax - I continued to do the next card trick.

This worked really well when using the LePaul routine as a table to table routine.

Just a few torn and restored card ideas.
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Postby Bob Farmer » 10/17/08 02:57 PM

Glenn:

Those are excellent ideas. I've been working on a routine that combines elements of the LePaul routine with elements of the Larry Jennings routine (it's in The Cardright but has way too many props), with elements of the Al Baker/Roy Johnson/Pat Conway/Bert Allerton roputines and some new ideas I've come up with.

A signed card is torn into 4 pieces. Three of the pieces vanish and appear back in the deck as a restored (signed) card -- and, of course, the 4th piece fits perfectly. The extra pieces are disposed of automatically as a byproduct of the routine (I eat them -- just kidding).

I can't get the LePaul "jump-out card" finish to work reliably. Sometimes the card pops out -- sometimes it doesn't. Any tips?
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Postby Jim Maloney » 10/17/08 03:07 PM

Bob,
I had similar problems with the LePaul pop-out sequence, but I've been able to get it down fairly reliably. I'll try to writeup what I'm doing, but it'll take a bit of studying what it is I'm doing so that I can articulate the exact kinds of pressure that are being placed on the deck.

I'll come back later tonight, or perhaps over the weekend, with some info.

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/17/08 07:54 PM

Yeah, I'll give you a simple tip: It won't work if you're holding the deck too tightly. And it will ONLY work if you are holding the deck between the thumb and first finger at the extreme inner left corner. Then you give the outer right corner a WIDE riffle upward--has to be sort of quick, almost like a snap. Card will come out, no problem.
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Postby Jim Maloney » 10/17/08 10:26 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:It won't work if you're holding the deck too tightly.


Yes.

Richard Kaufman wrote:And it will ONLY work if you are holding the deck between the thumb and first finger at the extreme inner left corner.


Yes, but two points:

1. It can be done on a table, as Marlo & Ascanio did -- the point is that the pressure is on that inner left corner.

2. The pressure is best kept more to the left than on the inner edge. Think about the torn card: there's more missing from the length of the left side than there is from the inner side. The key to to have as little pressure on the torn card as possible. Looking at how I've been doing it, I tend to place my thumb (if holding the deck in my hand) or index finger (if on the table) on the corner and then roll it slightly to the left.

Richard Kaufman wrote:Then you give the outer right corner a WIDE riffle upward--has to be sort of quick, almost like a snap. Card will come out, no problem.


Not necessary -- I do a relatively soft, slow riffle. A wide riffle is good, though. It's done with my right middle finger, which moves in an arc upwards and towards my body. The middle finger is contacting the deck at the outer right corner, slightly more on the front of the deck than on the side. I also place my thumb on the back of the deck (lightly...I'm not really trying to put pressure on it here). Think of it as if you're trying to create a current of air out of the front of the deck (pretend you're finishing up Skinner's Mona Lisa Card Trick).

Another tip: bevel the deck a bit forward and to the right. This helps relieve some of the pressure on the card that I noted above when discussing the grasp on the inner corner.

That's all for now, though I feel like I'm forgetting something. Perhaps more later.

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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 10/17/08 10:40 PM

David Thomas wrote:Hi all what is your favorite torn and restored card effect? Try and list something other than reformation, to keep it unique!

I have not come across many Torn and restored effects so far but I really like the diversity and the way everything flows so smoothly in the complete torn and restored card in the complete works of derek dingle.


Any mention yet of the first trick in the Stranger Card section of Expert Card Technique?
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 10/17/08 10:51 PM

Hi Bob - Thanks for the kind words and the question. I think that Richard and Jim both did a great job answering it - I have nothing more to add except I hope you and everyone have a great weekend.
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Postby Bob Farmer » 10/18/08 07:36 AM

I've tried all of the suggestions -- thanks everyone. I've had more success with the deck bevelled up and to the left with a riffle down the right side. Part of my difficulty here may be due to the orientation of the card: in the original LePaul effect, the card is face down, but in my routine the card is face up. The slight difference between the plane of the face-up card and the plane of the deck may cause more friction thus preventing the card from moving outwards.

I'm still working on the routine and will send it along to Genii when it's finished.
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Postby Leonard Hevia » 10/18/08 09:11 PM

Hi Dustin--I read your review of Quarks and Quirks and noted that you wrote, "I worked out and perform a version where the card is fully restored."

Is your version an amalgamation of "Hoodwink" and another version? Is there a bit of J.C. Wagner in there? If you want it sub rosa, I understand.

Why is the magician tearing and restoring a playing card? Well, you can tell your spectators about the time you magically located this gentleman's signed card. He became angry, grabbed the card and tore it to bits. That wasn't very nice of him, so I restored the card back to the way it was...
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 10/18/08 09:28 PM

You could also talk about what Sherlock Holmes did with the fireplace poker after an uppity guest decided to show off...
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 10/21/08 08:14 AM

A few days later and ...

Or what about the situation where after finding so many wrong cards the performer starts tearing up the next few wrong cards - one of which is the selection... oops - Time for some magic.
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Postby El Mystico » 10/21/08 01:18 PM

Sorry, I missed a few days....

I'm delighted to see the Le Paul version getting a plug. It is a strong approach. It does have some presentational weaknesses as written up - but these are addressed by Ascanio (although for my money, Ascanio loses more than he gains by substiting a double lift for a top change, which could be easily covered with a bit of consideration).
but i'm puzzled by the quest to find a stand up way to perform it - since the Le Paul version is designed to work stand up. and Ascanio adds a few touuches to this.
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