Vernon's Ace Cutting Routine

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby SpringBizkit » 09/29/08 03:05 PM

Hey guys,
Well i have the revelations DVD set and his chronicles and where ever else you can learn this effect, EXCEPT the stars of magic.
i was wondering about the original patter for this effect. In the Revelations DVD he kinda runs through it but i think it's done kinda different in the original as i've heard. can anyone confirm this? also, if it's different, can anyone let me know the patter? i'm really interested about this. I didn't want to just get the book for the patter line for this trick. I just got the 4 books for the vernon chronicles, and i kinda need to save up. just got Lorayne's classic collections vol 1 too, so yea.. outta $$$.

Thanks a lot guys, much appreciated!
Sagar.
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Postby El Mystico » 09/30/08 07:13 AM

I know it's not what you want to hear, but i'd say - get the book.
Not just for the patter line, but for just about every damn routine in it.
It will make you a better magician.
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Postby A1exM » 09/30/08 09:20 AM

I'm with El mystico, it's my favorite book and really is a classic that belongs in every magicians library.
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Postby Bob Farmer » 09/30/08 09:30 AM

STARS OF MAGIC is one of the best books on magic you can buy. See here:

http://mymagic.com/som/index.html

Also, in an upcoming Genii I have a routine that combines elements of Vernon's effect with the Christ ace routine.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 09/30/08 09:37 AM

SpringBizkit wrote:Hey guys,
Well i have the revelations DVD set and his chronicles and where ever else you can learn this effect, EXCEPT the stars of magic...


For a whole lot less money you can get started in learning fine routined closeup magic from a classic text with photographic illustrations of some of last century's significant innovators.
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Postby David Thomas » 09/30/08 10:23 AM

I just got Stars of Magic. A great book, not only for this but for the other effects, they're CLASSICS!
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Postby Adrian Kuiper » 09/30/08 11:24 AM

Back around '75 or so I was in Tannens trying to decide which of two books to purchase. Bob Elliot had shown me an effect from each. He was leaning towards "Stars" so he told me: "What I'm going to show you now....will make you buy the Stars Of Magic".
He had already shown me "Spellbound". He then showed me "Triumph".

I couldn't pay for that book fast enough!!!

Still have it...

Adrian
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Postby SpringBizkit » 09/30/08 11:25 AM

it's on my list to buy, and i will probably get it someday, but until then, i was just wondering about the patter for this trick. i just want to know what vernon used to say when he performed this. i'd like to keep it original as it was such a classic.
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Postby SpringBizkit » 09/30/08 01:08 PM

The thing is, im' only a card person and i kinda know the main card tricks in that book. looked em up in other places, but i think i'll just be getting it later on. maybe it'll get me into other areas or magic.
thanks a lot guys :D
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Postby mrgoat » 09/30/08 01:22 PM

SpringBizkit wrote:it's on my list to buy, and i will probably get it someday, but until then, i was just wondering about the patter for this trick. i just want to know what vernon used to say when he performed this. i'd like to keep it original as it was such a classic.


I may be wrong, but I think he would tell you to come up with a patterline that fitted your personality.

It's like someone said on another thread recently about a student of Slydini's saying "Now I'm-a a gonna fool ya"

Just no one but him could say it like that and make it work.

All for you studying where it came from though.

And I second everyone else who has said it is a great book.

I bought it SOLELY to find out how the Homing Card in there worked. I was shown it and it fooled me SO SO badly I just had to know the secret. Turns out it was an awesome purchase.
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Postby Sebastien L. » 09/30/08 01:53 PM

SpringBizkit wrote:it's on my list to buy, and i will probably get it someday, but until then, i was just wondering about the patter for this trick. i just want to know what vernon used to say when he performed this. i'd like to keep it original as it was such a classic.


Whether you want it for the patter alone or the rest of the book, it is more than worth the asking price.

It doesn't matter if it's a small part of the whole, asking for a freebie is just not right.
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Postby SpringBizkit » 09/30/08 03:36 PM

i'm not asking for an effect or trick. im asking 'what he said' not what he did. i'm not asking for a freebie, cause i already know how it's done. i just wanted to know if it's the same as what he says in the revelation dvd's. i have the revelation dvd's, but he changes stuff a lot, and just wanted to know what the original line was.
i kinda have most of the effects from various purchases already, but i just wanted to know the basic plotline that he used. is that exposure to ask for the story of the trick? thats like telling the story of the gemini twins by bro. john. i might not use the lines exactly, but i just wanted a general way he said it. so no i don't think i'm asking for a freebie cause i already know how to do it. I have my own patter, but i can't ask what someone else's patter was?
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Postby Sebastien L. » 10/01/08 11:22 AM

All right. I guess all that's left is to wait for someone who doesn't think giving the plotline and patter of an effect away as a freebie so that they can tell you.
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Postby mrgoat » 10/01/08 11:29 AM

SpringBizkit wrote:I have my own patter, but i can't ask what someone else's patter was?


You can ask. Indeed you have asked repeatedly.

Sadly, in life you don't always get what you want.

Clearly you have placed a value in getting this content, so why do you think you should get it for free?
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 10/01/08 11:44 AM

There's much to be said for obtaining the original publications of ideas and routines.

One example can be found in a coin trick that's gotten popular though distorted both in history and approach when a certain name is associated. Had this generation's students read "The Modern Conjurer" they would have a different perspective on the matter and could then proceed to pursue (or not) the particulars of that celebrity's approach. See the note by the author of the little phamphlet that started all this fuss for folks about personalizing the trick (or not) and compare that to Ross Bertram's approach which was contemporary. Nothing cryptic - just leave this as a marker for thanksgiving amusement.

By way of more easily explored example - consider all the fussing over the ace assembly trick in our literature and take it back to its roots in Hofzinser's routines for ideas and presentation. What's changed and what's better?

Slowly I turned - step by step...
Last edited by Jonathan Townsend on 10/01/08 11:50 AM, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: parry and thrust, no feints this time JR
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Postby El Mystico » 10/01/08 12:06 PM

a) if you have an understanding of story telling, you can deduce the patter from the Revelations DVD. sure, you won't get the original language, but I doubt whether Vernon used that wording word for word - and certainly YOU should not.

b) Thank you for this thread - it has got Stars of Magic off my shelf, and reminded me again how much better it is than most current magic.

c) you are (rightly, I think) being given a hard time for asking for something for nothing. But the flip side of this, as mrgoat points out, is that clearly you appreciate the importance of presentation. Good for you.
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Postby SpringBizkit » 10/01/08 01:51 PM

Yes i am asking for something, help. But i'm not asking for exposure to the art of magic. I didn't expect someone to go into the book and type up what was written word for word. But if it was about the 1 handed gambler, then i don't understand why in his chronicles book he tells the people to toss the cards and place the deck in the other hand, as the gambler only has 1 hand. It's not keeping pace together. If i was asking for a trick or a secret, then fine, i'm wrong, but i can't say i'm wrong for asking for help on presentation or a storyline that goes with the effect.
and about getting it for free.. well, i paid for the dvd set, and the chronicles book, but those 2 apparently didn't have the original which i thought it would. It's like getting the original presentation is harder than both sets of handling combined.. and that's the secret part of this trick..
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 10/01/08 02:17 PM

Hi SpringBizkit your not wrong in asking for help. When I started in magic I had a good group of people that I could go to and ask for help.

However - those days seem to be gone.

In in the Vernon cutting the aces the patter story that most magicians talk about - the plot line seems to set up some excuse for the magician to do the one handed cut production.

So over the years I have heard a lot of long and drawn out stories about one armed card sharps that can cut the aces. One at a time using the one handed cut - that was in the book.

However I never thought the trick of cutting the aces was about telling a tale about a person - card sharp with one had and how they could cut the aces. I never found it very entertaining when the magicians I saw do the trick tried to copy the story-line that was in the book.

I always thought that the cutting the aces - the trick was a story about dreams. Imagine it from the lay audience and their point of view. Being able to cut the aces - or going into the casino and taking a casino deck and cutting the aces.

Or being at the card game with a group of friends once a week and then showing off - the dream of cutting to the aces one at a time. The dream of being able to cut to the aces - or the dream of being able to control the deck - and "win" at anytime is a strong story line - because it "connects with the audience".

In the same way "in my opinion" that winning the lottery or beating the game might from the lay audience point of view.

Try that as a basic idea to add to your script writing.

Just a few thoughts and opinion.
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Postby SpringBizkit » 10/01/08 02:18 PM

This is a little off topic but, I'm going through the revelations dvd's and there's a story in there I'm lookign for and I can't seem to find it. It's a story he tells about being in a restaurant and he's pulling coins out of everything and everywhere. under glasses, plates, napkins, etc. anyone remember what volume this is on? been lookin for a while. Think it's a hilarious story and wanted to hear.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 10/01/08 02:39 PM

Off the original topic but in direct reply to the item you mentioned above - you can find the Free and Unlimited Coinage in Silver in The Dai Vernon book of Magic by Lewis Ganson.
Mundus vult decipi
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Postby SpringBizkit » 10/01/08 02:39 PM

Thanks Glenn, one of the more helpful posts.
I do like the idea of the dream cutting of aces, and i can do a gambling version of it, but for this particular trick, i wanted to take them out of their everyday life, out of the gambling, out of todays world, and to a previous time. Since i have quite a few gambling routines, and i also do marlo's ace cutting routine for cutting to the aces after losing them in, i just wanted a different feeling to this type of trick. I like your story about dreams idea, i think i'll think along those lines to add to what i have, we'll see how it goes.
Thanks a lot for that.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/01/08 02:50 PM

Vernon's original plot: that of a one-handed card shark who could cut to the Aces with one hand, tells you all you need to know. YOU have to concoct a story around that plot that will not seem ridiculous when YOU say it.
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Postby SpringBizkit » 10/01/08 02:51 PM

Thanks Jonathan, but would anyone know what disc on revelations? i just think the story he tells is really funny, but it's been a while and i've been lookin and lookin. sorry to go off topic.
Thanks though!
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 10/01/08 02:52 PM

Richard, do you know if anyone's explored choreographing their work so the are drinking or smoking and just happen to use one hand for the action?
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Postby Joe Pecore » 10/01/08 03:52 PM

Was it Johnny Thompson who ends this routine by pulling out a knife, slamming it down to stab the last card saying something like "and that is how the gambler lost his hand"?
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 10/01/08 03:55 PM

The cutting with one hand is LOGICALLY explained in The Card Sharp & The Four Gamblers. All you gotta do is check it out. HL
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 10/01/08 03:58 PM

Harry Lorayne wrote: The cutting with one hand is LOGICALLY explained in The Card Sharp & The Four Gamblers. All you gotta do is check it out. HL


Harry, we're trying to get the guy to pick up The Stars of Magic... so he can be ready to enjoy your Reputation Makers with some perspective.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 10/01/08 04:35 PM

SpringBizkit wrote:Thanks Glenn, one of the more helpful posts.
I do like the idea of the dream cutting of aces, and i can do a gambling version of it, but for this particular trick, i wanted to take them out of their everyday life, out of the gambling, out of todays world, and to a previous time. Since i have quite a few gambling routines, and i also do marlo's ace cutting routine for cutting to the aces after losing them in, i just wanted a different feeling to this type of trick. I like your story about dreams idea, i think i'll think along those lines to add to what i have, we'll see how it goes.
Thanks a lot for that.

Your welcome and if I may add one or two thoughts about script writing if I may. From my point of view the script has to sound logical and believable - coming from the age and experience of the performer.

The same patter can sound believable or silly and not believable depending on the "age" and experience the performer might have.

That is to say that a young magician might find it hard to convince an audience that he has "years" of experience as a card sharp or a card expert - when they perform a poker deal. If the performer is not old enough to get into a casino - it is harder to make some of the story patter go over.

Such as the case in my opinion of the one armed gambler or one armed card shark. Vernon had "age" and with age comes authority in my opinion so the story of the one armed gambler or card shark could be delivered to an audience with more authority from a magician that from the audience point of view - had been around.

In my opinion to help your script writing it should come from who "you" are and where you come from. The best performers in my opinion were "themselves" when they did shows.

The last tip and the most important one in my opinion is to audience test it. That is to do it lots of times for an audience and cut out the parts that drag on. The problem I see in my opinion with todays magic is that a lot of it goes on to long.

Just give them the "best" highlights - and then a punch finish - in my opinion that is enough.

Just a few more thoughts and opinion - good luck!
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Postby erdnasephile » 10/01/08 04:40 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:Vernon's original plot: that of a one-handed card shark who could cut to the Aces with one hand, tells you all you need to know. YOU have to concoct a story around that plot that will not seem ridiculous when YOU say it.


IMHO, this is an extremely important point.

When the average magician tries to use an allegedly true "I once knew a gambler"-type presentation, it looks foolish and cheesy because it is so obviously a lie.

Mr. Lorayne rather adroitly handles this issue in the opening line of his seminal routine (Reputation Makers, pg 13)--although, given his extremely strong presentation skills, (NO ONE can sell a trick like Mr. Lorayne!) he could probably successfully present this scenario as true.

Many magicians fool themselves. They do not seem to fully appreciate that it takes a rather talented actor to tell a tall tale convincingly. If the audience smells a phoney story passed off as the truth, your likability quotient had better be pretty high to compensate.

This goes double if you are claiming your "grandfather" inspired your next effect--unless, of course, your initials are DC.
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Postby Jeff Haas » 10/01/08 06:17 PM

I remember one of Harry's lines from Close-Up Card Magic..."This is a completely true story - which I just made up!"
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Postby SpringBizkit » 10/01/08 07:02 PM

Haha, yea i remember that line too. funny line. can't remember which trick from the book it's from :(
gonna have to go over it again.
Thanks a lot guys for all the tips. I was thinking of not making it a personal story as even though i'm 23, almost, i could never pull off the "age" thing, which i realized a while ago. i realized there was no point making up stories that couldn't be true, as i had to perform to family also, and they'd know i was lying haha. So for this one i'm going to change it a little and i've mixed it with the vernon story i just saw in revelations. it'll be somewhat like a fantasy story. guy walks in and crashes a crooked poker game. got 1 arm, hence the slip cut, and then he goes to show what he can do, while the crooked gambler deals the last few cards and palms the last ace, where as then the 1 armed gambler pulls out the knife.
either that, or i can cut out gamblers altogether and just go with "man, i saw this magician once, it was amazing, he did this, this, and he would cut the deck like this, and ask me if it was possible to cut to the aces after it's been lost" etc etc. and after i finish the trick i would end with "wow, i was totally blown away.. i wish i learnt how to do that one from him" which is kinda funny since i just did exactly that. :P
i guess we'll see what mood i'm in haha.
thanks a lot guys!
btw. Jonathan, i'm a total card guy, so getting the stars of magic at the moment wouldn't really encourage me to read it so much as i know most of the effects in that book that has to do with cards, but once i move to other brances, that'll be the first book i get.
Btw, where can i get lorayne's card sharp and the 4 gamblers?
was gonna wait till the classic collections 2 for it.
thanks again guys!
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 10/01/08 08:18 PM

THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Vol. 2 is your best bet. It's the first routine in the book. I'M TAKING ORDERS NOW - should have copies in 10 days or so. HL
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Postby Mark Ratekin » 10/01/08 09:04 PM

Hi, Harry -

Can you please provide the particulars on the Classic Collection, Vol. 2?

Thanks -

Mark
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/01/08 11:34 PM

We've got an ad for it in the November issue of Genii, which goes off to the printer tomorrow.

The cost is $98 postpaid. It contains the rewritten versions of Reputation Makers, Rim Shots, and Afterthoughts. I'd copy the contents of the ad here, but I can't extract the text from the pdf I have!
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 10/01/08 11:50 PM

Mark: If you send your email address to me at - harrylorayne@earthlink.net I'll send you an email (Attachment) copy of the full-page ad for the book. That goes for anyone who reads this. The book should be available in a couple of weeks. HL. (If I knew how to copy/paste it here, I'd do so.)
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Postby magicbar » 10/09/08 12:06 PM

Vernon's Cutting the Aces is still one of my favorite showcase effects. I don't use Vernon's presentation patter because I can't float a story about me meeting a one-armed gambler but the revelation with the cutting sequence makes for a good routine that builds well without alot of stacking and counting that accompanies other ace assemblies.
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Postby Rick Ruhl » 10/09/08 04:56 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:We've got an ad for it in the November issue of Genii, which goes off to the printer tomorrow.

The cost is $98 postpaid. It contains the rewritten versions of Reputation Makers, Rim Shots, and Afterthoughts. I'd copy the contents of the ad here, but I can't extract the text from the pdf I have!


That's because Harry embedded an image of the ad and the not a text/RTF, etc document in the PDF, so no way to get the text of out an image unless you OCR it.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 10/09/08 05:09 PM

I'd be happy, of course, to run the fuol-page ad here if only someone would tell me how to do it. HL
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/10/08 02:21 AM

Harry, I assume you originally wrote the ad copy in Word. Just copy the original text and paste it here.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 10/10/08 09:32 AM

Okay, okay you asked for it, youve got it!
! NEW !

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By HARRY LORAYNE.

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REPUTATION-MAKERS, RIM SHOTS, AFTERTHOUGHTS
with so MANY NEW ideas all in ONE fascinating volume.

WHAT A BARGAIN! ITS AN ABSOLUTE MUST-HAVE
IF YOU LOVE ANY DECK, ANYWHERE, ANY TIME, CARD MAGIC!

MORE: Order & get a FREE e-book download of the original CLOSE-UP CARD MAGIC, if you request it and if we have your email address. (Harrys is: harrylorayne@earthlink.net):

The response to THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Volume 1 is
extraordinary literally thousands of raves (even from those
who have the originals). Volume 2 has more pages than Vol. 1, plus 469 clear and instructive photographs, & wonderful magic.
According to so many The Card Sharp & The Four Gamblers, Snap!, Instant Magic Square (REPUTATION-MAKERS), Status Quo Shuffle. The HaLo Cut & routines, Amazing Prediction (RIM SHOTS), The Ultra Move, Easy Indicator (AFTERTHOUGHTS) AND SO MANY MORE are each worth more than the price of the book.
Get ready for a fascinating journey through a treasure trove.

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Out of U.S.A. add another $15.00 for s/h costs: Total - $113.90 (U.S. $ only).
Order NOW. Check or Postal Money Order preferred. SAVE: Send check or Money Order made payable to HARRY LORAYNE and deduct $5.00 from total. Mail to: HARRY LORAYNE, 62 JANE STREET, NEW YORK, NY 10014.

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Payment via PayPal to: harrylorayne@earthlink.net or email your credit card # and exp. date to same address. Youll be billed by RL LABS. Or, call 212, 989-5694 to order.

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