3 fly

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Postby David Thomas » 09/20/08 11:33 PM

Hi I am looking for the BEST source to learn the BEST 3 fly. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thank you!
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Postby El Mystico » 09/21/08 02:25 AM

Best I've seen is Kohler's; if you can find it and if you have the money.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 09/21/08 02:49 PM

That's not so easy a question to answer - really as it depends on how you want to play the effect. The Copenetro item is very strong for platform work and gives you the full "visual" across under impossible conditions. Some of the pure sleight of hand approaches give you more portable routines one can do up close. The billiards-like approaches using gaffs and handling derived from that side of parlor conjuring can look very good and are set up to work in the hands- standup. Those include the "Ultimate Three Fly" item sold by Bob Kohler and also the item "Come Fly With Me". If you already have the skills one learns when exploring the Miser's Dream routine you can also use a custom gaff on a rig to get the "coins across" effect working. Many paths to explore. A few people have published routines where a silver, copper and chinese brass coin travel - most recently Reed McClintock put such an item on the market. Also worth exploring.

IMHO the term "best" depends on performing context and other larger factors which are part of your show etc.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/21/08 03:06 PM

You don't need any gimmicked coins to do "Three Fly." Four half dollars or dollars work just dandy, and there are plenty of printed routines using just those coins (or a shell).

All the expensive versions using multiple gimmicked coins are good if you can't, or don't want to learn, the sleight of hand.

Personally, I enjoy doing hard work--it gives me genuine pleasure to perform magic with sleights. I don't get any pleasure out of using gimmicks, unless it's something like "McDonald's Aces," which I would definitely do if a steady gig came my way and the circumstances permitted it.
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Postby David Thomas » 09/21/08 03:17 PM

I agree-if there's an ungimmicked version, learn the ungimmicked version. If you don't have to use gimmicks, then why should you? As long as the effect is just as good and the skill level is not totally impossible and out of reach, then I always go for ungimmicked. Like twisting the aces by elmsley, the effect is just as good as others that use extras or gimmicks, and just as easy as most of them that do. But if there is a hard ungimmicked version of any effect, I always pursue it. :)
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 09/21/08 03:34 PM

David Thomas wrote:...then I always go for ungimmicked. Like twisting the aces by elmsley, the effect is just as good as others that use extras or gimmicks, and just as easy as most of them that do. But if there is a hard ungimmicked version of any effect, I always pursue it. :)


The "Twisting the Aces" trick is Dai Vernon's - and happens to use Alex Elmsley's count from his Ghost trick. The gaffed Twisting versions offer options not available in the original such as the backs changing color once or twice or the cards being shown as Kings at the end.

What specifically is your focus of interest in the visual coins across effect? Have you already gotten competent in doing and presenting other classical coins across routines (closed hand) and if so which is closest to your preferred style of performing. From that it might be possible to offer you some suggestions which would help you along your way.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/21/08 03:40 PM

David, Twisting the Aces is one of the easiest tricks you can do so it doesn't really make sense to use as an example.
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Postby mrgoat » 09/21/08 04:27 PM

David Thomas wrote: If you don't have to use gimmicks, then why should you?


One reason would be because you can achieve something with that gimmick that would be impossible to achieve without it.

As in Kohler's, some of the phases of the trick, some of the cleanliness, some of the apparent fairness would be impossible to achieve using 4 regular coins.

This isn't to say there aren't good routines using 4 coins.
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Postby David Thomas » 09/21/08 07:51 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:David, Twisting the Aces is one of the easiest tricks you can do so it doesn't really make sense to use as an example.


I said it was easy as the others and yet it didn't use gimmicks so why not use it, but I do see why you would use the gaffs to accomplish a kicker otherwise I don't believe there's an advantage to them. I was told it was Elmsley by the magician who first showed it to me, but more have said Vernon.

I prefer the style of silver quick, Jonathan...not sure how that will help with a 3 fly type routine though.....
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 09/21/08 08:06 PM

If you like Roth's coins across using the shuttle pass, that can be easily adapted into a VCA. Likewise if you like the HPC approach with slapping actions to table the coins - that too can be adapted - say using a variant of Geoff Latta's Ultimate HPC done out of FP and a looped coin in the RH used for the productions. It's really about finding a match between available methods and the way you move and act in performance so this trick is dynamically (in-character) with the others you perform.
Last edited by Jonathan Townsend on 09/21/08 08:08 PM, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: this devil is all about the details - isn't he? ;)
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Postby David Thomas » 09/21/08 08:42 PM

Thank you very much, Jonathan.
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