Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

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Postby David Thomas » 09/14/08 08:52 PM

The following is a nice handling of the marlo/benzais poker deal.

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Postby Cugel » 09/15/08 06:13 AM

I'm not seeing anything new here.
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Postby Philippe Billot » 09/15/08 08:57 AM

David Thomas wrote:The following is a nice handling of the marlo/benzais poker deal.

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You want to WRITE Marlo/Gardner ?
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 09/15/08 09:29 AM

Shades of my Lorayne's Poker Deal, out of Close-Up Card Magic, back in 1962. Even the patter is damn close. (My presentation is much better; check it out.) I re-wrote and updated it in LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Vol. 1, where I mention that it's similar to, based on, an Ed Marlo/Martin Gardner routine - which I was not aware of when I originally wrote it up (even earlier than 1962, in a magic magazine). But Marlo, BENZAIS???!!! Really? That's a new one on me. HL (That was one of the many reasons I did THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, to give credits that I wasn't aware of when I wrote the originals.)
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Postby David Thomas » 09/15/08 10:15 AM

OK first of all:

There is a Marlo/Benzais poker deal.

Second of all, it is a different handling. Don't say it's the same handling if you don't know what the Marlo/Benzais poker deal is. Same effect, but totally different and better handling. Would anyone care to tell me how this is different I would like to know what you think.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 09/15/08 10:29 AM

Looks the same to me. Bit of difference in patter, not as good as mine. Two posts above seem to agree - "nothing new here" and don't you mean Marlo/GARDNER? I knew Johnny Benzais as well as anyone; never, ever, talked about this poker deal. And, I'd published my version in the early fifties. I see nothing new here, and d**n close to Lorayne's Poker Deal. Hey, I may be wrong, I'm a lousy historian. HL (PS: Yes, the handling is slightly different and, in my opinion, not as good as my handling. My opinion. Be good if some compared.)
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/15/08 10:43 AM

David, how old are you?
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Postby Darryl Harris » 09/15/08 10:48 AM

Hello David...

Would you mind very much providing a reference to the Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal? I don't remember coming across it before, but I don't have ALL of Marlo's material. I do have the Benzais book, and I don't remember it appearing there.

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Postby Philippe Billot » 09/15/08 10:56 AM

Hi Mister Lorayne


As you knew John Benzais, do you know when he born ? Because I'm not sure the date in Magicpedia is right.

Thanks in advance.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 09/15/08 11:32 AM

No, Phillippe. That never came up!
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Postby Sebastien L. » 09/15/08 12:38 PM

Richard, perhaps you don't recall (you must have a lot on your mind on any one given day).

In this thread here David says that he is 14 and has been doing magic since March this year.

David, Harry has been doing magic since before you were a gleam in your father's eye. Likely he knows what's what, but feel free to provide a reference to what you believe is the Marlo/Benzai deal and let's see where this goes. Where did you see this, exactly?

EDIT: Sorry, almost 14, as per the thread linked above.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 09/15/08 12:45 PM

Well, now it starts to make a bit of sense. And Richard Kaufman even suggested my Lorayne's Poker Deal back then. We sure do want to listen to a 14-year old who's been "doing" magic for less than a year. I do love the "attitude." HL
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Postby amp » 09/15/08 12:55 PM

The ocean is very deep David.
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Postby Eddie » 09/15/08 05:52 PM

Marlo Gardner pker deal ,lets see the deck 1942, it's the last trick in the booklet.
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Postby Cugel » 09/15/08 06:31 PM

Harry Lorayne wrote: Well, now it starts to make a bit of sense. And Richard Kaufman even suggested my Lorayne's Poker Deal back then. We sure do want to listen to a 14-year old who's been "doing" magic for less than a year. I do love the "attitude." HL


I don't think we need to be too hard on him. It's enough to point out the provenance of the routine. Better to encourage than discourage.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/15/08 06:42 PM

I think it was David's insistence, and tone, that it was a Marlo/Benzais poker deal that caused the issue. None of us know of a Marlo/Benzais poker deal. We all know of a Marlo/Gardner poker deal and Harry's presentation of it.
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Postby David Thomas » 09/15/08 06:50 PM

Wow. I told everyone about the marlo/benzais poker deal and now I'm being attacked. Not sure what I did, but allow me to clarify. I shared a very good handling (In my opinion) of the marlo/BENZAIS poker deal that I thought people might enjoy. Don't you want beginners on the forum Richard? Don't you want to help aspiring magicians? What's wrong with a kid who's interested in magic being on the forum? I'm sorry you're all too cocky to help a 14 year old who's interested in magic. It's pretty sad that I have to be over 25 to have any respect on the forum except in the beginners section. I actually admire Harry Lorayne, and I'm still not sure why he's angry at me. Apparently he thought I was attacking him (?)

I will ask Mike Robinson (the guy in the video) about it. I know him very well and I think he knows his stuff pretty well.
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Postby RogueMD » 09/15/08 06:55 PM

Of course I also knew everything when I was 14.

It took me many years to forget it all...

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Postby David Thomas » 09/15/08 07:02 PM

I will honestly say I meant no disrespect in any of my above posts to anyone. I'm just shocked at how seriously everyone took it and at how quick everyone was to start attacking me.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 09/15/08 07:10 PM

It's not that I'm angry at you, David, it's just that it's a bit annoying when someone is told something over and over again and simply won't listen or pay attention. You're still saying "Marlo/Benzais" when you've been told numerous times that it's Marlo/Gardner. I knew Marlo, I knew Benzais, neither ever mentioned, in all my separate sessions with either, their combined poker routine. If I'm angry at all it is with whoever is selling something that I taught/teach in my first book on magic (1962) which is still out there; which is re-written in a current book of mine, and which I perform and teach on volume 1 of my "Best Ever" DVD set. Incidentally, on that volume, it is taught along with about THIRTY other full effects/routines.
And this person is asking is it $10.00 for it?! It's not important enough to be angry about, but it sure is damn annoying. What a simple idea - let him sell something of his own, something he created, not something that has been out there for decades. That comes too close to "rip-off." HL
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 09/15/08 07:13 PM

Just saw your last post, after I submitted mine. I think you may get the same reaction if you continue a) not to listen to those who have been around longer, know more, and on and on, than you do. Listen and learn - a cliche, but a truth. And b) stop "pushing" rip-offs.
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Postby David Thomas » 09/15/08 07:16 PM

It's an entirely new handling, from what he's told me. Harry, would you care to PM me and tall me exactly what makes your method of the poker deal different. This is not by any means asking you to divulge methods, I am just very curious about all of this.

By the way, I'm not pushing "ripoffs", I just thought some people might be interested in the handling.
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Postby David Thomas » 09/15/08 08:51 PM

OK, I'm sorry that about all of this....I should have listened to Harry and Richard, it is Gardner. My friend here told me that he saw it on an Alan Ackerman DVD years ago and he said it was probably Gardner. Forgive me for being so stubborn. However, the handling is VERY good and not the same as others so I recommend anyone who might be interested to buy it. I don't exactly have the huge bookshelf of magic books that everyone else around here has, so I was just going by what my friend here had said. Anyhow, I would like to apologize for this whole argument.

I still don't like the fact that so many people were so quick to attack me because I had disagreed about the name of 1 effect. I hope that the unwelcome nature of this forum changes and again I am sorry.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 09/15/08 08:51 PM

Just look up Lorayne's Poker Deal way back in the early 1950s in Hugard's Magic Monthly, or in Close-Up Card Magic (1962) or in Lorayne: The Classic Collection or on Vol. 1 of my DVD set. HL
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/15/08 08:53 PM

David, this Forum does not have an unwelcome nature--many of us are experts in our field. We generally (but not always) know what we're talking about.
The first thing I learned shortly after starting this Forum is that I am frequently wrong and, if that's the case, no one hesitates to correct me. And if they going to correct me, then they're going to correct, you, too.
Arguing really doesn't help matters.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 09/15/08 08:57 PM

How do you know that it's "not the same as others"? The key here is - a) stop listening to those who know as much or less than you do, and b) make sure you know "all the 'others'" before making these "overall" statements. And, you're still recommend that people buy something that they can get with so many other items from earlier, better, versions. Repeat: Stop pushing rip-offs, and things you know, obviously, little about.
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Postby David Thomas » 09/15/08 09:18 PM

He learned the marlo/gardner poker deal on a DVD by Alan Ackerman and made up his own handling, based on the MARLO/GARDNER POKER DEAL, not your book. It was based on the original Marlo and Gardner routine, not your variation of the routine. Since it has nothing to do with your effect except the fact that they're both variations on the original, you have no reason to be angry.

However, the handling is VERY good and not the same as others so I recommend anyone who might be interested to buy it. Bedroom Cheaters
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Postby David Ben » 09/15/08 09:23 PM

For those of you who might want to read a further extension of the Marlo/Gardner Poker Deal - Lorayne Poker Deal, check out Magicana's recent publication - Spins & Needles: The Magic of Allan Slaight. Allan's handling is called "Duple-Licate", and was originally published in the November 1993 issue of Apocalypse. He adds a lovely second deal demo at the start, among other things, to the routine. As Spins & Needles -designed by Michael Albright - was published in a very small edition (500) less than a month ago, I suggest you grab it now. (Less than 250 copies are still available through magic dealers, notably H & R). You can, of course, check out Allan's original description, and Harry's Forward and Afterthoughts by reading the issue of Apocalypse. Also, for more info visit: http://www.magicana.com/spins-book.php?vSec=plc
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Postby Joe Pecore » 09/15/08 09:34 PM

However, the handling is VERY good and not the same as others so I recommend anyone who might be interested to buy it. Bedroom Cheaters


Seems a better value for your money would be to pick up Harry Lorayne's Close-Up Card Magic, which I've seen for around $20, and get this effect plus over 50 other great ones.
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Postby amp » 09/15/08 09:56 PM

[quote="David Thomas"]Wow. I told everyone about the marlo/benzais poker deal and now I'm being attacked.

You're not being attacked. But ocean is very deep. There's so much info. and great magic in books.These guys are trying to guide you. Man do you know how luck you are?? We sometimes had to write letters or wait until magician came to town. To find out things.I'm still learning I think we all are. But Harry is right . It is rip off get Harry's book.We care about our art.So take it easy you have to empty your cup. If not I'll run your fence down with my car.
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Postby David Thomas » 09/15/08 10:06 PM

We sure do want to listen to a 14-year old who's been "doing" magic for less than a year. I do love the "attitude." HL


Of course I also knew everything when I was 14.

It took me many years to forget it all...


Stop pushing rip-offs, and things you know, obviously, little about.


If that's not attacks, then what is? Anyhow, we all have different opinions on things and I really want to put an end to all this.
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Postby Steve Bryant » 09/15/08 10:27 PM

Re David Ben's comments above, the book arrived at my home today, and it is just gorgeous, the design another Michael Albright masterpiece. If you own Revelation, you know the quality to expect. The title and design are a play on Allan Slaight's dj and radio mogul background, with the book shaped like a record album and each trick within representing a "record." (Slaight's background is thoroughly laid out in an 11-page biographical article by David Ben; although I was rather familiar with the subject, I learned plenty that was new and fascinating.) All this plus all those great tricks, some of which are old favorites from Pallbearers, and some new to me from other journals. If the publishers stick to a limited edition, owners of this book are going to make their friends in magic who don't own it VERY jealous.
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Postby David Ben » 09/15/08 11:17 PM

Thank you, Steve, for your comments. Magicana has no plans to reprint this book. It was a special project for a special event - the closing of 31 Faces North and as a gesture of the high regard we, and other attendees, have for Allan. Also, I'm so pleased that you flagged Michael's Albright's design. It is nothing short of brilliant.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/15/08 11:39 PM

Spins and Needles is a great book. Buy it now, folks, or you'll be sorry when it's gone!
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Postby RogueMD » 09/15/08 11:42 PM

[/quote- David Thomas]

...we all have different opinions on things...[/quote]

Not all opinions are created equal.
The weight of an opinion is based on the strength of the expertise.
Harry Loraine and Richard Kaufman have extra-ordinary expertise in these matters...as do many others.
Knowing that you do not know everything is a step in the right direction.
We ALL must come to that understanding.

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Postby David Thomas » 09/15/08 11:59 PM

Alright Michael, you keep worshiping Harry and Richard in the mean time, OK? Do you know everything Michael? No, you don't, so please stop posting ignorant comments that no one pays attention to.
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Postby RogueMD » 09/16/08 12:03 AM

David Thomas wrote:Alright Michael, you keep worshiping Harry and Richard in the mean time, OK? Do you know everything Michael? No, you don't, so please stop posting ignorant comments that no one pays attention to.


Not a problem MR. Thomas...my point has been made.

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Postby Roger M. » 09/16/08 12:33 AM

There's a fly in this thread.

It's only a fly though folks, so no need to bring out anything larger than a fly swatter......no knives or large calibre weapons.
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Postby Cugel » 09/16/08 04:27 AM

David Thomas wrote:Alright Michael, you keep worshiping Harry and Richard in the mean time, OK? Do you know everything Michael? No, you don't, so please stop posting ignorant comments that no one pays attention to.


Calm down, everyone, calm down.

David - I can see with my own two eyes that nothing of any significance has been added to the Marlo/Gardner deal in the video you posted. Unfortunately this happens all too often: people who haven't read enough rush to print or to the market place.
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Postby Sebastien L. » 09/16/08 07:07 AM

Let's all remember that those selling the $10 instant downloads are those who have personally taken David under their wing.

David, you should think about how just yesterday you were telling people there was such a thing as the Marlo/Benzai poker deal and they should shut up if they don't know about it.

Now you are declaring that this handling is different from all the others.

If you haven't gained a dozen years of experience overnight, may I respectfully suggest that you have no idea either way?

There are people here who have dozens of years of experience, and they have an idea. If you listen to them and track down the references they provide you may learn much and change some of your opinions. If you don't want to, at least don't get involved in an argument until you actually have some knowledge of what you speak and aren't just repeating what your teachers tell you verbatim.

So let's start. You say "the handling is VERY good and not the same as others". OK. Can you tell us which other poker deals you've studied and practiced and what their shortcomings were (no exposure please, just generics)?
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