Too many Cards

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David Thomas
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Too many Cards

Postby David Thomas » September 13th, 2008, 5:03 pm

Whenever I perform too many cards by derek dingle, the audience seems to be bored out of their minds and they say afterwards "It takes forever to get to the 5" and leaves them very, very bored. How can I make this routine more entertaining, because everyone that does it says it always gets a great reaction and its one of their most entertaining routines. What do I need to change? I have the workings down but not the presentation....do I need to go faster, better patter? Any help?
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Too many Cards

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 13th, 2008, 5:10 pm

Learn some presentation! Nobody gives a crap about the cards in your hands unless YOU make it interesting.

And if you can't learn a good presentation for the trick, and the audience seems bored to you, then learn a shorter trick.
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amp
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Re: Too many Cards

Postby amp » September 13th, 2008, 6:39 pm

Juan Tamariz's the Five Points in Magic . Is a good start

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Too many Cards

Postby Jonathan Townsend » September 13th, 2008, 7:01 pm

David Thomas wrote:Whenever I perform too many cards by derek dingle,... better patter? Any help?


What drew you to the routine? What is there about it which you find of interest?

From your audiences perspective - how does the situation evolve in a way which has meaning to them?

How does your character interact with the magic of the situation at the heart of the trick?

If you start from a character and a situation you can build a script (the spoken part is called patter round these parts) and refine that through performance and also with the help of your local theater. Trying to work from the trick to the script is not so easy.
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Stan Willis
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Re: Too many Cards

Postby Stan Willis » September 13th, 2008, 10:14 pm

I think choreography is the secret ingredient in reference to what you are looking for here and it doesn't come easy and it's definitely not found in the instructions. Concentrate on coordinating the elements of the hands, eyes, and mouth to include a little taste of misdirection and you've got "IT".

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Re: Too many Cards

Postby Jonathan Townsend » September 13th, 2008, 11:58 pm

Choreography? Okay you got me on that one. How does choreography make a great difference without character and setting and music etc? As if a little Alvin Ailey could turn a Ben Stein delivery of a card trick into a sure fire hit for most folks? Maybe start by trying out some Twyla Tharp? Ah heck why not just go for some classic time tested work and use sections from Nijinski's choreography for The Faun's Afternoon? IMHO the Ru Paul supermodel / Madonna Vogue approach does not likely serve most performers here.

How about paprika? It's likely a safer secret ingredient and you can always tell folks it's saffron if you want to seem clever. :)
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Stan Willis
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Re: Too many Cards

Postby Stan Willis » September 14th, 2008, 6:45 am

Tired of cleverly dining from the kidde menu at your favorite Cafe???

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Re: Too many Cards

Postby Jonathan Townsend » September 14th, 2008, 8:18 am

David Thomas wrote:Whenever I perform too many cards by derek dingle, the audience seems to be bored out of their minds ... What do I need to change? I have the workings down but not the presentation....do I need to go faster, better patter? Any help?


Admirable - not only aware of the audience response but open to changing the presentation frame and seeking help.

What gets them to buy into the process at the start and what is there for them when the process completes?

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David Thomas
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Re: Too many Cards

Postby David Thomas » September 14th, 2008, 12:42 pm

Thank you Mr. Townsend. I think as the effect goes along it seems harder for those cards to keep rising to the top. Because first it just goes from second to top to the top, and someone might say, "Do it again", and you keep doing it agin and it gets more impossible every time. Also, when I first saw it done, I was a beginner and I was just amazed with everything, especially the kicker.

Bill Duncan
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Re: Too many Cards

Postby Bill Duncan » September 14th, 2008, 2:29 pm

David,
You might investigate Jennings' original script. He actually used a "story" sort of patter about vaudeville days and a family of tumblers.

TOO MANY CARDS worked as patter for Dingle because he was a "trickster" who was proud to call what he did "card tricks." So a presentation in which the audience is a bit challenged, suited him. If you don't have his personal charm, such a presentation could hurt rather than help.

The hardest lesson we learn is to pick material for which we have the right presentation, rather than to present the tricks we like. Or more simply put: any similarity between the tricks you like to do, and the tricks your audience likes to see you do, is a conscience.

Maybe this trick its right for you, with that presentation?

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Too many Cards

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 14th, 2008, 4:09 pm

Jennings' patter is included in the description of the trick in The Classic Magic of Larry Jennings, is it not? Probably also on the Classic Magic DVD from L&L.
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Pete McCabe
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Re: Too many Cards

Postby Pete McCabe » September 15th, 2008, 1:08 am

Who are you? Why do you like magic? Why do you like this trick?

Communicate the answers to these questions, to your audience.

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David Thomas
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Re: Too many Cards

Postby David Thomas » September 15th, 2008, 10:23 am

I went through classic magic it has the patter. I think I'm more of the story type of person Bill, so I'll use Derek's handling and Larry's patter. My Thanks to everyone for the advice.

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Re: Too many Cards

Postby amp » September 15th, 2008, 12:49 pm

Get Pete McCabe's book Scripting Magic.

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Re: Too many Cards

Postby El Mystico » September 15th, 2008, 1:25 pm

Try to get hold of Dingle's Paris Super Sessions video. He performs it on that. I'm not saying you should copy him, but it is worth watching to understand his timing.
The effect goes back to Edward victor; it is interesting how many of the 'classic' effects need a lot of thought about their presentation. Cards up the sleeve is another one; you have to sell it right.
does this mean that, really, they are too long and irrelevant for a modern audience?
I do wonder; after all, there are very few magicians today who could entertain with, say, an eight ring routine. Attention spans are shorter.
Then sometimes I think - it is like Shakespeare v Friends? Friends is undemanding, but Shakespeare more rewarding. But then, Shakespeare's comedies, to me, are as unfunny as the unfunniest sitcoms....for me, their time has past.
Sorry, I'm rambling. Too many cards can still play well. But, like with all magic, once you have developed the technical proficiency, you then need to learn how to present it. and you just need to view Fred Kaps performing the Homing card to know what i'm talking about.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Too many Cards

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 15th, 2008, 1:30 pm

El Mystico, which Edward Victor effect are you referring to? The first small-packet Ambitious Card I've located is Bill Miesel's in Ibidem.
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DrDanny
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Re: Too many Cards

Postby DrDanny » September 15th, 2008, 1:45 pm

Not to muddy the waters more, but I adapted Dingle's "too many cards" patter (as best I could remember it from the Snyder show?) for a 5-card packet Ambitious Card, and have used it for a long time. The handling was from one of the Martin Nash trilogy, or at least it had its genesis there. I no longer have those books, but wonder what Nash's patter approach was.


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