Too many Cards

A place where beginners can participate, ask questions, and post their views. However, beginners typically ask a lot of questions about sources, tricks, books, and so on. In fact, all magicians are interested (or should be) in the provenance of tricks, ideas, and related matters. This department will service these needs.

Postby David Thomas » 09/13/08 05:03 PM

Whenever I perform too many cards by derek dingle, the audience seems to be bored out of their minds and they say afterwards "It takes forever to get to the 5" and leaves them very, very bored. How can I make this routine more entertaining, because everyone that does it says it always gets a great reaction and its one of their most entertaining routines. What do I need to change? I have the workings down but not the presentation....do I need to go faster, better patter? Any help?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/13/08 05:10 PM

Learn some presentation! Nobody gives a crap about the cards in your hands unless YOU make it interesting.

And if you can't learn a good presentation for the trick, and the audience seems bored to you, then learn a shorter trick.
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Postby amp » 09/13/08 06:39 PM

Juan Tamariz's the Five Points in Magic . Is a good start
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 09/13/08 07:01 PM

David Thomas wrote:Whenever I perform too many cards by derek dingle,... better patter? Any help?


What drew you to the routine? What is there about it which you find of interest?

From your audiences perspective - how does the situation evolve in a way which has meaning to them?

How does your character interact with the magic of the situation at the heart of the trick?

If you start from a character and a situation you can build a script (the spoken part is called patter round these parts) and refine that through performance and also with the help of your local theater. Trying to work from the trick to the script is not so easy.
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Postby Stan Willis » 09/13/08 10:14 PM

I think choreography is the secret ingredient in reference to what you are looking for here and it doesn't come easy and it's definitely not found in the instructions. Concentrate on coordinating the elements of the hands, eyes, and mouth to include a little taste of misdirection and you've got "IT".
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 09/13/08 11:58 PM

Choreography? Okay you got me on that one. How does choreography make a great difference without character and setting and music etc? As if a little Alvin Ailey could turn a Ben Stein delivery of a card trick into a sure fire hit for most folks? Maybe start by trying out some Twyla Tharp? Ah heck why not just go for some classic time tested work and use sections from Nijinski's choreography for The Faun's Afternoon? IMHO the Ru Paul supermodel / Madonna Vogue approach does not likely serve most performers here.

How about paprika? It's likely a safer secret ingredient and you can always tell folks it's saffron if you want to seem clever. :)
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Reason: strike a pose - every move a picture - vogue!
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Postby Stan Willis » 09/14/08 06:45 AM

Tired of cleverly dining from the kidde menu at your favorite Cafe???
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 09/14/08 08:18 AM

David Thomas wrote:Whenever I perform too many cards by derek dingle, the audience seems to be bored out of their minds ... What do I need to change? I have the workings down but not the presentation....do I need to go faster, better patter? Any help?


Admirable - not only aware of the audience response but open to changing the presentation frame and seeking help.

What gets them to buy into the process at the start and what is there for them when the process completes?
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Postby David Thomas » 09/14/08 12:42 PM

Thank you Mr. Townsend. I think as the effect goes along it seems harder for those cards to keep rising to the top. Because first it just goes from second to top to the top, and someone might say, "Do it again", and you keep doing it agin and it gets more impossible every time. Also, when I first saw it done, I was a beginner and I was just amazed with everything, especially the kicker.
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Postby Bill Duncan » 09/14/08 02:29 PM

David,
You might investigate Jennings' original script. He actually used a "story" sort of patter about vaudeville days and a family of tumblers.

TOO MANY CARDS worked as patter for Dingle because he was a "trickster" who was proud to call what he did "card tricks." So a presentation in which the audience is a bit challenged, suited him. If you don't have his personal charm, such a presentation could hurt rather than help.

The hardest lesson we learn is to pick material for which we have the right presentation, rather than to present the tricks we like. Or more simply put: any similarity between the tricks you like to do, and the tricks your audience likes to see you do, is a conscience.

Maybe this trick its right for you, with that presentation?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/14/08 04:09 PM

Jennings' patter is included in the description of the trick in The Classic Magic of Larry Jennings, is it not? Probably also on the Classic Magic DVD from L&L.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 09/15/08 01:08 AM

Who are you? Why do you like magic? Why do you like this trick?

Communicate the answers to these questions, to your audience.
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Postby David Thomas » 09/15/08 10:23 AM

I went through classic magic it has the patter. I think I'm more of the story type of person Bill, so I'll use Derek's handling and Larry's patter. My Thanks to everyone for the advice.
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Postby amp » 09/15/08 12:49 PM

Get Pete McCabe's book Scripting Magic.
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Postby El Mystico » 09/15/08 01:25 PM

Try to get hold of Dingle's Paris Super Sessions video. He performs it on that. I'm not saying you should copy him, but it is worth watching to understand his timing.
The effect goes back to Edward victor; it is interesting how many of the 'classic' effects need a lot of thought about their presentation. Cards up the sleeve is another one; you have to sell it right.
does this mean that, really, they are too long and irrelevant for a modern audience?
I do wonder; after all, there are very few magicians today who could entertain with, say, an eight ring routine. Attention spans are shorter.
Then sometimes I think - it is like Shakespeare v Friends? Friends is undemanding, but Shakespeare more rewarding. But then, Shakespeare's comedies, to me, are as unfunny as the unfunniest sitcoms....for me, their time has past.
Sorry, I'm rambling. Too many cards can still play well. But, like with all magic, once you have developed the technical proficiency, you then need to learn how to present it. and you just need to view Fred Kaps performing the Homing card to know what i'm talking about.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/15/08 01:30 PM

El Mystico, which Edward Victor effect are you referring to? The first small-packet Ambitious Card I've located is Bill Miesel's in Ibidem.
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Postby DrDanny » 09/15/08 01:45 PM

Not to muddy the waters more, but I adapted Dingle's "too many cards" patter (as best I could remember it from the Snyder show?) for a 5-card packet Ambitious Card, and have used it for a long time. The handling was from one of the Martin Nash trilogy, or at least it had its genesis there. I no longer have those books, but wonder what Nash's patter approach was.
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