CLOSURE OF SAMTALKING

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.

Postby Magic Newswire » 07/27/08 02:01 PM

We've blogged this issue at our site and will continue to attempt to contact SAM leadership for comment.
User avatar
Magic Newswire
 
Posts: 2473
Joined: 03/29/08 12:32 PM

Postby opie » 07/27/08 02:03 PM

Thanks again, Chris....

I don't really want anything but what we have had, with Neil running the operation. It was a good forum....The similar one that IBM has is nothing compared to what we have done in the past year.

The main reason it did not get more support was because the "committee" members did not want it to succeed and have said so, or at least one has said so with vigor and said that none of the other officers would support it either......

...Let us wait and see what some others have to say....

The floor is open.....opie
opie
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 03/14/08 10:43 AM
Location: austin tx

Postby Dave V » 07/27/08 02:48 PM

I'm sorry to hear that. I'm not exactly sure how "they" were able to shut it down in the first place, but since I'm not a SAM member, I haven't seen first hand what went on there.

The IBM forum (more of a mailing list, with a Web archive) went about it a different way. We petitioned the IBM and actually got chartered as a real IBM Ring, just like any other. The only difference is that we meet online instead of having a physical location. It wasn't easy, but with the assistance of Past International President Bill Wells and the support of Pete Biro and others, we eventually got it through the system. Being an independent Ring rather than the "Official Voice of IBM" we're an independent entity, free to do what we want (within guidelines set forth for any Ring). Yes, basic rules of etiquette are enforced, so it's a place for open discussion without any "bashing" and other misbehaviors that plague typical "chat" forums. Yes, it can happen there too, but it's quickly shut down by our other members. Since most members receive a daily Digest instead of reading in near real time, empassioned posts written "in the heat of the moment" are rare.

The only way I can see that IBM can shut us down is to revoke our Charter, and that requires more than some invisible "committee" coming along and just pulling the plug.

The other difference is that we've had the support of IBM, past and present officers from day one clear back in the 1990's before the Web was much more than a communication experiment used primarily by Universities and research facilities.

I hope "they" reconsider and allow SamTalk, SamTalking et. al. to continue with the endorsement of SAM.
"I still play with a full deck, I just shuffle slower"
User avatar
Dave V
 
Posts: 251
Joined: 03/13/08 01:44 AM

Postby opie » 07/27/08 03:30 PM

I have no idea who owns the web...Perhaps we can get Neil on here when he gets back home from Louisville, and he can explain all that...

It would be nice, however, if the "Committee" came on and answered the questions.

I would have opened this topic on SAMtalk, but nothing gets on there without Bruce's approval....

opie
opie
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 03/14/08 10:43 AM
Location: austin tx

Postby Kurt » 07/27/08 05:33 PM

What do you mean they have closed it? Who is "They"? I've been on the national council for several years and I have never heard of an executive committee. I'm also hearing scary gossip from the Louisville convention. Such as the gossip that some of the new leadership want to stop printing M.U.M. as a magazine and put it only online. Where has the discussion started on this crazy idea? If they do that then what do our dues pay for?
Kurt
Kurt
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 07/27/08 05:27 PM

Postby opie » 07/27/08 06:52 PM

Thanks Kurt, but let us not muddy the main issue here....We are not here to wave about our dirty laundry and create concerns; we are here to restore our PRIVATE SAM place where we can discuss our private problems with all members and hopefully come to some democratic solutions......

Hopefully, we don't have a DEMOCRACY problem....

Thanks again for your concern and comments....Hug your lovely lady for me....haha

opie
opie
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 03/14/08 10:43 AM
Location: austin tx

Postby Necromancer » 07/28/08 12:56 PM

Thank you for your words of support for SAMtalking.com. Happily, there is something you can do.

By last week's count, over 450 members of the SAM had registered at SAMtalking.com; and while the average of just over a post a day may not appear exciting, that's over 400 posts made freely by S.A.M. members -- over 400 posts made in real time, without the delay or editorial filtering of pre-moderation.

Without SAMtalking.com, the S.A.M. has no accessible open forum through which members can freely discuss the issues facing the S.A.M., and be heard by the members of the National Council who are sworn to represent them.

If you're serious about saving SAMtalking.com and keeping this line for open discussion open within the S.A.M., please make sure the officers hear you. President Kalver has set up a gmail account to receive messages, but we all know that individual email accounts can be undependable. To be safe, I urge you to please send your letters of support to ALL of the following:

PRESIDENT AND COUNCIL MEMBERS
samexecutiveofficers@gmail.com
samtalkbruce@cox.net
presidentelect@magicsam.com
firstvp@magicsam.com
secondvp@magicsam.com
treasurer@magicsam.com
secretary@magicsam.com
samadministrator@magicsam.com
dean@magicsam.com
lifemembers@aol.com
bravesjann@comcast.net

IMMEDIATE PAST NATIONAL PRESIDENT
merlina17@aol.com

ETHICS AND LEGAL
fkaps@aol.com
kapsmagic@verizon.net
stuarts1031@erols.com

Yours in service,
Neil

Neil Tobin
President, Chicago Assembly No. 3
Society of American Magicians
Neil Tobin, Necromancer
Necromancer
 
Posts: 219
Joined: 01/22/08 01:00 PM
Location: Chicago

Postby Joe M. Turner » 07/28/08 02:16 PM

While I admit I enjoyed knowing that there was a SAMTalking.com out there being used by a handful of people, I do confess that the shutdown kind of made sense and seemed inevitable to me, for the reason given in the email blast. I am blissfully ignorant of internal SAM politics, so I won't begin to address how that would contribute to this outcome. But on the face, the truly minimal usage of SAMTalking.com after a year online... well, it simply didn't ever really take off with the membership. If I were making the decision, I'd probably have cut the cord for that reason alone. When it opened, I joined, posted a couple of times, and frankly haven't been back but a couple of times. I can only imagine that I'm one of several dozens who did precisely the same thing.

I always felt like SAMTalking.com was equivalent to a couple of well-dressed cheerleaders in an empty field, doing a really good job of cheering to the prairie, interrupted only by the occasional trespass of a lonely tumbleweed. Could it have been great? Sure. Could it still be great? It's the internet -- anything can happen. But a year on and still practically unused... that's not a sign of success, no matter what other internal political arguments may be happening.

On a related note, I do think that perhaps Bruce ought to recuse himself from moderating SAMTalk during his presidency and maybe also for a year or so afterward. Just my opinion.

JMT
Joe M. Turner
 
Posts: 418
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Atlanta, GA

Postby Roger M. » 07/28/08 02:57 PM

It all seems sort of disingenuous when SAM already has a web site set up (and the accompanying server account) and can run a chat forum like SAMTalking for something less than a few pennies a day to close it down.

Hosting companies like "GoDaddy" or "Bluehost" include a fully loaded package of phpBB (chat forum software) at ZERO extra cost.

So what's the reason for closing SAMTalking again?
Roger M.
 
Posts: 788
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM

Postby Jeff Eline » 07/28/08 09:32 PM

Why do you think SAMtalking.com didn't get traffic? Forum structure, membership demographics, established alternatives?
Jeff Eline
 
Posts: 647
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Baltimore, MD

Postby opie » 07/28/08 10:11 PM

The prime reason that SAMtalking was not more successful is because of lack of support by the very people who have closed it....

Maria Ibanez tried very hard to make it go, but some others on her staff simply would not support it.

Considering the fact that most of the "leadership" refused to go on the web and talk it up, I believe the forum was and could still be a valuable asset to SAM.

Maybe we can all just sit here and wait to see how long it takes for that "executive" group to come on here and tell us....Now that would be LEADERSHIP.

opie
opie
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 03/14/08 10:43 AM
Location: austin tx

Postby Bill Palmer » 07/29/08 12:55 AM

There were several problems.

The individual assembly sections could have been utilized much better than they were.

Also, it really didn't seem to be much fun to go onto it for me.
Bill Palmer, MIMC
Bill Palmer
 
Posts: 719
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Houston TX

Postby Joe M. Turner » 07/29/08 08:36 AM

opie wrote:Considering the fact that most of the "leadership" refused to go on the web and talk it up, I believe the forum was and could still be a valuable asset to SAM.


Opie -- with all due respect -- having it "talked up" by a bunch of folks going around the web doing a sales job (on OTHER forums!) wouldn't have made it any more attractive to me, and probably would have made it less appealing. Maria gave it a good push, and after that it was really up to the forum to find a way to succeed.

I don't think we blame it on the leadership, former or current. I think the honest truth is that SAMtalking never had a clear USP that was of interest to a large number of magicians. It was just one more forum in a glut, trying to find a way to be different but not ever really landing in a niche.

Just my perspective...

JMT
Joe M. Turner
 
Posts: 418
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Atlanta, GA

Postby opie » 07/29/08 08:56 AM

Point taken, Jose.....gracias....opie
opie
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 03/14/08 10:43 AM
Location: austin tx

Postby Necromancer » 07/29/08 12:53 PM

All,

Regardless of opinions about SAMtalking.com, I think the most important point under discussion is the manner in which it has been suspended.

If you would like the leaders of the S.A.M. to hear your voice on this issue, please send an email copied to all of the addresses below.

PRESIDENT AND COUNCIL MEMBERS
samexecutiveofficers@gmail.com
samtalkbruce@cox.net
presidentelect@magicsam.com
firstvp@magicsam.com
secondvp@magicsam.com
treasurer@magicsam.com
secretary@magicsam.com
samadministrator@magicsam.com
dean@magicsam.com
lifemembers@aol.com
bravesjann@comcast.net

IMMEDIATE PAST NATIONAL PRESIDENT
merlina17@aol.com

ETHICS AND LEGAL
fkaps@aol.com
kapsmagic@verizon.net
stuarts1031@erols.com

Best,
Neil Tobin
President, Chicago Assembly No. 3
Society of American Magicians
Neil Tobin, Necromancer
Necromancer
 
Posts: 219
Joined: 01/22/08 01:00 PM
Location: Chicago

Postby Merlina » 07/29/08 06:39 PM

Greetings everyone,

Thank you each and everyone for your input and feedback with regards to the closing of SAMtalking.

Joe, just to clarify things, SAMtalking was one of the many benefits of membership of the SAM and it was presented that way to the membership and was offered to those who were inquiring about joining. It is not about how many people used it or how fast it grew....just for your information, it grew in its first year at a much faster rate that the SAMtalk group did.
If there were 2 members of the SAM who used it and since it wasn't costing the SAM a penny to operate, why take it away from the 2 members who were happy using it? By the way, it was much more than 2 members, there were more than 1 member signing up daily.

There are many differences between the two groups. SAMtalking was in real time, post up as soon as you hit send, did not depend on a moderator who kept the number of messages to a maximum a day to keep an e-mail blast short in length, and it was easy to search, all the messages were there at all times and was not as convoluted to search through as the current SAMtalk is.

Agreeing to the shut-down of the forum because there were under 500 people who signed up the first year, would be the equivalent of having told you that you should give up on magic when you were learning your first tricks. You persevered, continued to practice and became a magician. That's kind of what Neil and SAMtalking were about.

I for one am disappointed not just that it was shut down but in the fact that it was shut down without discussion with the National Council even though we were all in Louisville when this happened. It was brought up in a motion at the Council Meeting and Most Illustrious National President Bruce Kalver responded to Neil that "we can discuss this". No discussion followed, the group was just shut down.

Joe, you are heavily involved with another national group which has its own newsgroup and that is one of the benefits of membership in that society. Would you want to lose your voice on that group or your right to post or the right of others to post if they so wish? I don't think you would.

Maria Ibanez
Past National President '07-'08
Society of American Magicians
Merlina
 
Posts: 25
Joined: 06/15/08 07:10 PM
Location: Miami, Florida

Postby Joe M. Turner » 07/29/08 09:03 PM

Maria -- You make a great point. Framing it as a question of a "benefit of membership" does give me an impetus to reconsider.

As a SAM member I already felt like I had an electronic voice on the SAMTalk group, and I never felt censored at all. So framing this as a question of depriving the membership of having "a voice" doesn't resonate with me personally because I never experienced any lack of opportunity on SAMTalk. That apparently isn't everyone's experience.

Admittedly, the shutting down of SAMTalking did seem rather abrupt, even for a forum that seemed to be languishing from underuse. In my view, the fact that it was a surprise to so many in the SAM leadership as well as the SAM membership indicates that there is more to it than met the eye. Clearly there are political winds blowing and relationship issues which I am not privy to. (Thank heaven!)

I think that if SAMTalk is to be the primary (or "sole") forum for SAM members to have intra-membership discussions, then the moderator(s) should be designated by the leadership and not actually be the elected leaders. Personally, I think it would be good form for Bruce to step aside from the moderating position while serving as president, much as Phil Willmarth left The Linking Ring upon his election to IBM President.

It's probably in the interest of both major organizations to spend some time considering whether they have rules in place to give guidance when there is crossover between their elected leadership and their "press" leadership.

I tend to think that electronic communication like forums, mailing lists, Yahoo groups, etc. ought to be part of the overall media plan of both organizations, and that the job (and job qualifications!) of Editor of the magazines should be expanded to include the task of managing a person or team with responsibility for the electronic media. In my view, organizations should implement a unified approach (design, both exclusive and mirrored content, commenting, forums, etc.) across all their publications, whether print or electronic.

Thanks to Opie and Maria for continuing the discussion to the point where I reexamined the premises. I still think that underuse is a valid reason for pulling the plug on something that isn't taking off... but I agree that should be a decision made openly and with discussion.
Joe M. Turner
 
Posts: 418
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Atlanta, GA

Postby opie » 07/29/08 09:48 PM

Thanks again, Joe....Now I think people are beginning to see the bigger problem....

opie
opie
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 03/14/08 10:43 AM
Location: austin tx

Postby MBJ » 07/30/08 12:46 AM

What are the chances that the issue will be reconsidered and the forum get revived? Or do the powers that be just don't want to hear and consider it dead?
Thanks,
Jack
"That's my story and I'm Stickin' to it!"
MBJ
 
Posts: 15
Joined: 03/11/08 05:45 PM
Location: Illinois

Postby opie » 07/30/08 05:10 AM

Jack,

Good questions....It would be nice to have answers from those elected officials who can provide them....

opie
opie
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 03/14/08 10:43 AM
Location: austin tx

Postby Merlina » 07/30/08 08:18 AM

Greetings and good morning,

Jack, you are posing an interesting question... "Or do the powers that be just don't want to hear and consider it dead?"

The fact is that none of the officers have responded either here or on the Magic Cafe although both the President Elect and the 1st Vice President have had other posts on that forum in the past 3 days which means that they are in fact reading the forum.

There was a mass e-mail to all subscribers of SAMtalking letting them know that it was being shut down and providing a gmail address for people to write to, the only problem is that all mail going there is being returned to the senders. I, myself, tried to copy them on an email received from a concerned member along with my response to him. I've copied at the bottom of this e-mail the "bounce of e-mail" which I received when sending the "Executive Officers" a copy of the correspondence.

One of the questions that has been raised to me, by the many members who have contacted me, is since SAMtalking was, as is SAMtalk and many other things, a benefit of membership and since the SAM already has a website and server, why is the National President using a free address of gmail which is a google address, for official correspondence with the concerns of shutting down a newsgroup of the Society would be?

Several have asked exactly what executive officers are since the governing of the Society is by constition and by-laws up to the National Council?

As the immediate past president, those of you who have written and phoned feel that I have the answers; I must apologize because I do not. I've been on the board first as an RVP then up the chairs for at least 8 or 9 years now, and never heard of the "executive officers" (assuming this is the President, Pres-elect, 1st VP and 2nd VP. Making a decision on this type without going to the National Council for approval since it was the National Council who originally passed and voted on the approval of the forum and since it is the National Council that is the governing body of the Society is something I've never heard of.

Who is the National Council? It is comprised of the officers - President, President elect, 1st VP, 2nd VP, Past National Presidents, Secretary, Treasurer, RVPs....in other words, those who were elected to office by the membership.

Some have expressed a concern about not receiving a reply from the "powers that be"....I again apologize as I cannot speak as to why other than the address provided in the e-mail sent by Most Illustrious President Bruce Kalver, signed on behalf of the Executive Officers, is an address which has correspondence bounce back from.

Neil Tobin has provided above a list of whom to contact in addition to the address provided by the e-mail blast, here is the list Neil provided once again with the exception that I've added the name of the individual whose e-mail address it is in parenthesis next to the it.

PRESIDENT AND COUNCIL MEMBERS
samexecutiveofficers@gmail.com (???)
samtalkbruce@cox.net (Bruce Kalver)
presidentelect@magicsam.com (Mike Miller)
firstvp@magicsam.com (Mark Weidhaas)
secondvp@magicsam.com (Vinny Grosso)
treasurer@magicsam.com (Mary Ann Blowers)
secretary@magicsam.com (Marlene Clark)
samadministrator@magicsam.com (Manon Rodriguez)
dean@magicsam.com (George Schindler)
lifemembers@aol.com (Clem Kinnicutt)
bravesjann@comcast.net (Jann Goodsell)

IMMEDIATE PAST NATIONAL PRESIDENT
merlina17@aol.com (Maria Ibanez)

ETHICS AND LEGAL
fkaps@aol.com (Marc de Sousa)
kapsmagic@verizon.net (Warren Kaps)
stuarts1031@erols.com (Stuart Schneider)

My best to everyone and always remember to keep a dream in the making.

Maria Ibanez


HERE IS A COPY OF THE E-MAIL RECEIVED WITH REGARDS TO THE G-MAIL ADDRESS BOUNCING BACK

Hello Merlina17@aol.com,

We're writing to let you know that the group that you tried to contact (samexecutiveofficers) either doesn't exist, or you don't have permission to post to it. There are a few possible reasons why this happened:

* You might have spelled or formatted the group name incorrectly.
* The owner of the group removed this group, so there's nobody there to contact.
* You may need to join the group before being allowed to post.
* This group may not be open to posting.

If you have questions about this or any other group, please visit the Google Groups Help Center at http://groups.google.com/support.

Thanks, and we hope you'll continue to enjoy Google Groups.

The Google Groups Team


Received: by 10.114.199.3 with SMTP id w3mr70981waf.7.1217368445781; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:54:05 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <samexecutiveofficers+caf_=samexecutiveofficers=googlegroups.com@gmail.com>
Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.178]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 39si19573040yxd.0.2008.07.29.14.54.05; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:54:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of samexecutiveofficers+caf_=samexecutiveo ... @gmail.com designates 64.233.166.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.233.166.178;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of samexecutiveofficers+caf_=samexecutiveo ... @gmail.com designates 64.233.166.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=samexecutiveofficers+caf_=sam ... @gmail.com
Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id w49so51077pyg.35 for <samexecutiveofficers@googlegroups.com>; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:54:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.64.204.13 with SMTP id b13mr12955463qbg.84.1217368445326; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:54:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Forwarded-To: samexecutiveofficers@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-For: samexecutiveofficers@gmail.com samexecutiveofficers@googlegroups.com
Delivered-To: samexecutiveofficers@gmail.com
Received: by 10.65.15.7 with SMTP id s7cs23077qbi; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:54:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.100.105.15 with SMTP id d15mr1727682anc.92.1217368443427; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:54:03 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <Merlina17@aol.com>
Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id s35si266228qbs.13.2008.07.29.14.54.03; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:54:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of Merlina17@aol.com designates 64.12.137.8 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.12.137.8;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of Merlina17@aol.com designates 64.12.137.8 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=Merlina17@aol.com
Received: from Merlina17@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id 1.c34.3ab0bb2e (29672); Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:53:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Merlina17@aol.com
Message-ID: <c34.3ab0bb2e.35c0eb5e@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:53:34 EDT
Subject: Re: SAMtalking.com
To: steve@516phoneme.com, samexecutiveofficers@gmail.com, samtalkbruce@cox.net, presidentelect@magicsam.com, firstvp@magicsam.com, secondvp@magicsam.com, treasurer@magicsam.com, secretary@magicsam.com, samadministrator@magicsam.com, dean@magicsam.com, Lifemembers@aol.com, bravesjann@comcast.net, FKaps@aol.com, kapsmagic@verizon.net, stuarts1031@erols.com
CC: neiltobin@hotmail.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1217368414"
X-Mailer: Unknown sub 34
X-Spam-Flag: NO
Merlina
 
Posts: 25
Joined: 06/15/08 07:10 PM
Location: Miami, Florida

Postby opie » 07/30/08 11:40 AM

Maria,

Jack Skalon has some questions on this topic over at the Cafe....You might want to take a look at them:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... orum=197&5

opie
opie
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 03/14/08 10:43 AM
Location: austin tx

Postby Glenn Farrington » 07/30/08 01:38 PM

Years ago when the Internet was a baby and websites took longer to load then the wrong size shell in a 12 gaugethere were online services

I was an executive at one of these little unknown service providers. There was a chat room and message board for every special interest group you could imagine. We would even have internal competitions to see who could figure out the most groups to reach via the medium. It didnt matter if there were only four people posting messages in the people who like watching grass grow section because it still fell under what I believe was a very smart objective in the business model. Customer Satisfaction=Brand Loyalty.

One thing that became even more apparent, based on how we could track a member online, there were always far more people reading what was posted than those who signed up for that forumgranted, this was in an early world where not everyone typed or felt comfortable with a keyboardbut Im fairly certain the rule still applies.

We use to look at the little used special interest areas as the soap thats always left out on the dish in the guest bathroom. Its there when you need it and it performs an important service. But the important thing iswe care enough to do that for you.

And these were decisions being made when quite a bit of money was on the line. Hard to imagine if the cost is negligible, it still offers a service, and is value added to membershipthere seems to be no sound reason why it would be eliminated. Butas with most things we are on the outside looking inthere is probably more to the story.

What I find amusing, in a culture that is really on the fence about how govt creates ways to do what they want, sometimes blatantly outside the regulatory boundarieshow any organization would want to push that hot nerve button.

The other online companies that didnt understand the guest bathroom soap didnt make it. There were many other reasons why they didnt make itbut not understanding the needs of the customer still rises to the top of pushing you off the cliff.

AnytimeAnywhereAnyone is actually taking the time out of their day, to spend it with your organizationis a good thing.

And even though this should fall under business 101, I will still state it as my opinion. If you are providing a service that fulfills a need, no matter how big or smalland it winds up not being successfulit is ALWAYS at the fault of the organization behind it. This kind of failure is usually based on here and now thinking as opposed to tomorrow thinkers.

The company I worked for back then was America Onlinewhich at some point decided to move their corporate headquarters to Hades and can no longer be trusted to care anything about the customer base but only caters to whomever brings them the most ad and sponsorship revenuebut I digress.

I look forward to seeing how all this progressesand Im sure I wont be surprised with how it endsbut, I must admitI always do wish for unseen twists in the final act.

Now if youll excuse me...I need to go find a store that still has some earthquake proofing kits in stock.
Comedy's Easy...Dying Sucks.
User avatar
Glenn Farrington
 
Posts: 630
Joined: 01/24/08 01:00 PM
Location: Los Angeles

Postby Magic Newswire » 07/30/08 01:40 PM

Still trying to get some feedback on this. In doing so, I received a copy of the email that was sent to SAMTalking members following the closure. In that it hasn't been posted here, I thought it might add to the conversation. Here ya go:

Dear SAMtalking Subscribers,

Thank you so much in taking part in our one year experiment of SAMtalking.

Currently, SAMtalking has been taken offline. There have been may comments, concerns, criticisms and lack of use with SAMtalking. Although we recognize the potential that this format can provide in giving valuable information, we need to look into what we can do to improve the benefits of this to our members who seem to be minimal on SAMtalking. Although we have 450+ people signed up to SAMtalking, currently, after a year of experiment we only have 1.11 users per day.

The Executive Committee has decided to temporarily suspend the experiment for review. We realize that there are many points of view. We value your input. We welcome your comments. Please contact us at: samexecutiveofficers@gmail.com.

Sent on behalf of the S.A.M. Executive Officers
User avatar
Magic Newswire
 
Posts: 2473
Joined: 03/29/08 12:32 PM

Postby Glenn Farrington » 07/30/08 01:56 PM

gotta love those e-mails that bounce back undeliverable.

Hey...if you can't e-mail them, you can always send a written letter (remember those)to:

SAM Executive Committee
Incinerator # 4
Paramus New Jersey


I kid because I love...
Comedy's Easy...Dying Sucks.
User avatar
Glenn Farrington
 
Posts: 630
Joined: 01/24/08 01:00 PM
Location: Los Angeles

Postby Merlina » 07/30/08 02:22 PM

Greetings --

My dear Glenn....thank you for your post and input. Anyone who knows you and knows your background and the immesurable experience you have with the internet, wireless communications and ship to shore, etc. knows that you speak from the voice of experience.

I too feel as you do, even if it were only 2 members using the group, that would be 2 members who are now being deprived of their right to communicate through it and that saddens me for the membership is the one who has lost one of its benefits.

Maria Ibanez
Keep a dream in the making for we create our tomorrows by what we dream today.

Maria Ibanez
Merlina
 
Posts: 25
Joined: 06/15/08 07:10 PM
Location: Miami, Florida

Postby Jim Roberts » 07/30/08 03:00 PM

Since joining SAM in May, I have found SAMtalking an enjoyable place to read and post when I feel I can add to a discussion. The closing of the forum is disconcerting in and of itself. What I am finding even more disturbing is the fact that an email address was provided ostensibly to receive comments on the matter, and emails sent to said address are bouncing.
I want nothing more than to be able to believe that the address was simply misstyped in the message. What really bothers me is no members of the "committee" responsible have seen fit to either respond or even offer a corrected address.
Jim Roberts, The Scrum Mage
User avatar
Jim Roberts
 
Posts: 24
Joined: 03/17/08 10:00 PM

Postby opie » 07/30/08 03:29 PM

"What really bothers me is no members of the "committee" responsible have seen fit to either respond or even offer a corrected address. "

Yeah, I am surprised that there are not more people on here wondering the same things???


opie
opie
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 03/14/08 10:43 AM
Location: austin tx

Postby Dave V » 07/30/08 04:55 PM

Oh, we're wondering. I just didn't think another "me too" post would help much. Like I said, I'm not a SAM member, but I'm seriously interested to see how this plays out in case anything similar ever happens like this on the IBM side.
"I still play with a full deck, I just shuffle slower"
User avatar
Dave V
 
Posts: 251
Joined: 03/13/08 01:44 AM

Postby Jim Roberts » 07/30/08 06:14 PM

In all fairness I need to mention that I received an email from President Kalver. It was in response to the email I was informed had bounced. To all who received the message that your email was undeliverable, check and see if there is not a response.

This does not explain why we were getting bounce messages or shed any more light on the demise of SAMtalking, but it contained the text of the email I was told had bounced, was a response, and is appreciated.

I do hope they are more forthcoming in the future.
Jim Roberts, The Scrum Mage
User avatar
Jim Roberts
 
Posts: 24
Joined: 03/17/08 10:00 PM

Postby opie » 07/31/08 07:28 AM

ScrumMage said: "I do hope they are more forthcoming in the future. "

....or better yet NOW!

Over at SAMtalk, there is a discussion related to this topic regarding Human Nature.

Human nature is the fundamental nature and substance of humans, and as such is extremely PERSONAL. This fundamental truth is very evident when somebody says, Well, it's not personal. In those instances, one can be fairly certain that the fundamental nature and substance of the individuals are tossing up smoke and mirrors. We, as magicians, are pretty well trained so that, when we see smoke and mirrors, we know there is some concealed secret.

Thanks to Mandy and Bob for boiling this topic down to the simple explanation of Human Nature...It should help us all get a better understanding of what is happening.



opie
opie
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 03/14/08 10:43 AM
Location: austin tx

Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/31/08 10:58 AM

I'm trying to figure out why we have a five page thread on this in the Genii Forum if only 1 or two people a day actually bothered to utilize this. Of course they shut it down! If no one comes to the party, you close the door.

It might not have been costing them anything, but anything on the Internet needs to be maintained--and that's a pain in the ass.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 20641
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC

Postby Necromancer » 07/31/08 12:44 PM

Hi Richard,

Three points:

1. In a democratic organization, that decision-making power might not rightfully belong to a single individual.

2. Postings do not equal utilization. The number of people who utilized the forum as readers of postings or as senders of PMs to other members are not included in that figure. And who's to say those aren't equally valid uses for the mechanism?

3. I have never considered the maintenance of SAMtalking.com a pain. It has been an honor.

Sincerely,
Neil

Neil Tobin
2007-8 Administrator of SAMtalking.com
President, Chicago Assembly No. 3
Society of American Magicians
Neil Tobin, Necromancer
Necromancer
 
Posts: 219
Joined: 01/22/08 01:00 PM
Location: Chicago

Postby CardioloJest » 07/31/08 02:22 PM

Yes, opie--Human nature is the fundamental nature and substance of humans, and as such is extremely PERSONAL.

For a look at your personal human nature, and how your mind works, there are many interesting personality tests you can take at this new WebSite: http://youniverse.com/ -- a LOT of fun, too!
When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you
User avatar
CardioloJest
 
Posts: 149
Joined: 07/22/08 04:17 PM
Location: Music City USA

Postby opie » 07/31/08 03:36 PM

Jest....I know; I am an old Counselor and English teacher....

Thanks for the link...One of my old hobbies was collecting psychological tests and measurements....Maybe that is why I expect more from elected officials....

opie
opie
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 03/14/08 10:43 AM
Location: austin tx

Postby Magic Newswire » 07/31/08 04:04 PM

If it helps calm the storm, I have been told that it is not closed, but rather is on hiatus while how best to utilize the resource can be explored. Expect an interview with parties involved in the near future..
User avatar
Magic Newswire
 
Posts: 2473
Joined: 03/29/08 12:32 PM

Postby opie » 07/31/08 04:17 PM

Dodd,

What that translates to is: The "Committee" will present the best way to utilize the site at the next quarterly Council Meeting (November???)....

Since the Council has already voted to have the site, they should not have closed it until the Council votes to close it....

I do know about what I speak.....

opie (old Council Member)....
opie
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 03/14/08 10:43 AM
Location: austin tx

Postby CardioloJest » 07/31/08 04:19 PM

"Maybe that is why I expect more from elected officials..."

opie -- maybe you'll get more from elected officials if you show them all the $$$ tricks in your repertoire --you know,of course, they WILL keep the $$$.
When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you
User avatar
CardioloJest
 
Posts: 149
Joined: 07/22/08 04:17 PM
Location: Music City USA

Postby opie » 07/31/08 04:42 PM

I don't have any $$$ tricks in my repertoire ....all of mine are $ tricks....hehe.........

..keep on playing......opie
opie
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 03/14/08 10:43 AM
Location: austin tx

Postby Magic Newswire » 07/31/08 04:56 PM

Just sharing what I have been told. Don't shoot the messenger...
;-)
User avatar
Magic Newswire
 
Posts: 2473
Joined: 03/29/08 12:32 PM

Next

Return to Buzz