WTB: Lassen Gravity Flipper in Morgan Dollar or Walking Liberty Half

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Postby BlueEyed Videot » 06/12/08 01:49 AM

I'm intending to write a scholarly comparison between Schoolcraft and Lassen Gravity Flipper Coins. I have a Schoolcraft flipper on order from Jamie, but am unable to contact Todd via e-mail about obtaining same from him. Thus I turn to my peers for help. Anybody have a LASSEN flipper in Walking Liberty half or Morgan dollar that they aren't using?
Will PayPal any reasonable price.
Please PM me here or email to wyzard28@yahoo.com

Thanks,

Richard Hart
Tulsa, OK
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 06/12/08 10:57 AM

Scholarly? Are you a machinist with good measuring tools?

Might be easier to visit the guys in their shops and take notes and photos if they're up for that.
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Postby BlueEyed Videot » 06/12/08 08:50 PM

Wow, I haven't seen such a warm, sarcastic "Hi, how ya doin'?" since they kicked Thomas Wayne off of you-know-where. Perhaps you were confused and thought you were still logged on to that-other-place when you typed the above, uh, greeting. I would expect that kind of banter over there, but not on a civilized forum like Genii.

I can assure you, Mr. Townsend, I am not a machinist. If you must know, I'm a retired Software Quality Assurance Engineer who has had a fifty-year love affair with magic. And I repeat, I'm intending to write a scholarly comparison between flipper coins manufactured by Jamie Schoolcraft and Todd Lassen. Why, there's even such a "debate" running on another board even now. Surely you must've seen it, or does writing almost 20,000 posts leave little time for reading? I thought I would put my QA talents to good use and write a thorough analytical comparison between the two. Why, I'll even send one to you, Mr. Townsend, no hard feelings, just PM me your email address.

That is, provided I can obtain a Lassen Flipper. I thought I'd post here, as the last time I needed a hard-to-find item, I posted a WTB on the old Magic! bbs, and was supplied the item by none other than our own Pete Biro (it was a band writer, if memory serves). I've tried emailing Mr. Lassen, to no avail. I'm afraid I'll have to abandon this idea unless I have something to compare. Sigh.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 06/12/08 09:10 PM

Why in the world is it necessary to write a "scholarly comparison" between two flipper coins? Different coin handlers might prefer one or the other for various reasons, assuming they actually are measurably different in some important way, but do you really need to write at length about it?
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 06/12/08 09:10 PM

Richard Hart wrote:Wow, I haven't seen such a warm, sarcastic "Hi, how ya doin'?" since they kicked Thomas Wayne off of you-know-where. Perhaps you were confused and thought you were still logged on to that-other-place when you typed the above, uh, greeting. I would expect that kind of banter over there, but not on a civilized forum like Genii.

I can assure you, Mr. Townsend, I am not a machinist. If you must know, I'm a retired Software Quality Assurance Engineer who has had a fifty-year love affair with magic. And I repeat, I'm intending to write a scholarly comparison between flipper coins manufactured by Jamie Schoolcraft and Todd Lassen. Why, there's even such a "debate" running on another board even now. Surely you must've seen it, or does writing almost 20,000 posts leave little time for reading? I thought I would put my QA talents to good use and write a thorough analytical comparison between the two. Why, I'll even send one to you, Mr. Townsend, no hard feelings, just PM me your email address.

...


Sigh indeed - your projections speak to who you are.

It helps to know something about the subject about which you write or plan to write. I was interested in finding out what sort of comparison you were preparing to write.

I doubt your sincerity in communicating. My email address is easily found both here and at the cafe. No need to PM here or there.

Sarcasm might be something like "wow - if that's the way you reply to someone who wanted to know more about your plans I bet you made a great impression on those guys"

meh
Last edited by Jonathan Townsend on 06/12/08 09:20 PM, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: revised for focus
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Postby DrDanny » 06/12/08 10:40 PM

Boys....don't make me come back there!
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Postby BlueEyed Videot » 06/13/08 01:04 AM

Richard Kaufman wrote:Why in the world is it necessary to write a "scholarly comparison" between two flipper coins? Different coin handlers might prefer one or the other for various reasons, assuming they actually are measurably different in some important way, but do you really need to write at length about it?


Sure, why not? Car and Driver has been comparing cars for years. Consumer reports the same with toster ovens. Genii reviews products, DVDs, and books (and over the years has saved me a lot of time and money.) So I thought it might be beneficial (and fun) to produce an article, analyzing the Cadillics and Lincolns of flipper coins. Of course I have no lofty aspirations of having it published; I'd just make it available to magic friends who were interested.

Flippers are expensive. I just looked, and for a Walking Liberty Half, Schoolcraft wants $95 and Lassen wants around $150; run-of-the-mill flippers are in the $25 to $40 range. So is there more than "brand" to justify the difference in price?

What is testable? Based on statements made on the Lassen and Schoolcraft websites, I find much to be testable:

1. Flipper insert tension. Possibly related to angle of deflection when open "via gravity" and the ability to lay flat on a horizontal surface; perhaps also speed of closing/opening.
2. Ease of band replacement. Subjective but may have testable steps. ("Due to trench cut...")
3. Geometry of flipper ("When flipped open, more of the insert coin shows...")
4. Sounds produced when in use (opening/closing.)
5. Physical properties of flipper (size, weight, gravitic deflection angle, & etc.)
6. Performance characteristics (speed of closing, speed of opening, and ballistic trajectory--when it closes how does it move?)

So there is much to test. Surely test results could aid one in determining which flipper to purchase.

I have no expectations, just a driving curiosity. I'm especially interested in the way band properties influence performance characteristics. After this flipper study I plan to experiment with various latex and non-latex bands to see if there is an optimal band material that provides both performance and longevity.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 06/13/08 09:26 AM

Dude, you have too much free time.
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Postby Todd Lassen » 06/13/08 10:46 PM

C'mon. Quit picking on the guy. Jonathan, I think there was just a little misunderstanding from the git-go. I think he has valid points of comparison to check out. And believe me Richard, there ARE guys that live and breath coin gaffs and want all the imformation they can possibly garner.

With all the politics going on, there is alot of bad and skewed imformation out there, whereas some may get credited as being a "master craftsmen" when they don't know their butt from a hole in the ground. And coin gaffs can become quite an investment these days for some.

You don't need to be a machinist to tell the difference in quality from one product to another, and certain peoples preferences or needs don't vary between a quality product and a crappy product.

That's my 2 cents. Besides, I bet I read a magic review about every other day where I think the reviewer had entirely too much time on his hands.

Sorry Richard H., I'm way behind on emails as usual, even more so these days. Send me another mail and I will get back to you.
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Postby Bill McFadden » 06/13/08 11:04 PM

Check it out: RK called a guy, "Dude."
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 06/13/08 11:53 PM

Hi Todd, I was hoping he'd want to visit your shop to see how you've approached the tool-up process, maybe a litte about how things are made and how that effects how the coins handle. Also if he does not have the tools to measure on his own - you have them and could explain some of what's behind the things he wants to measure.
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