Darwins Bottom run up

Discuss the tricks and sleights which appear in Genii.

Postby Jinx » 04/18/08 12:19 PM

I'm trying to find which issue this is in. If any one can help, please.


Chris
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Postby Denis Behr » 04/18/08 01:09 PM

It's also in Cardshark and there he says that's in the March 1993 issue of Genii.

(By the way, several "from the bottom" handlings are in Fulves' Riffle Shuffle Technique - Part 3, beginning on page 130.)

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Postby Jinx » 04/18/08 04:08 PM

Thanks for the references, Ya I'm still trying to get a hold of part 2 and 3 to complete my collection.


Thanks again.
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Postby John Carey » 05/03/08 09:37 AM

Some great material in cardshark
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Postby JimChristianson » 05/07/08 04:19 AM

I'll never forget the first time I saw Darwin run up a bottom! It was smoooooth.
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Postby Cugel » 05/07/08 05:52 AM

JimChristianson wrote:I'll never forget the first time I saw Darwin run up a bottom! It was smoooooth.


Would you give her a ten?
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/12/08 03:46 PM

I don't have any of Darwin's books or DVD's. However I have been using several run up's or stacking methods for quite some time and would now like to offer an opinion.

Most magicians that use stacking and culling techniques that I have known like to use the stacking and culling techniques that use the jog shuffle when doing poker deals for an audience.

The reason is that the cards are up and off the table. If the magician is standing and performing like John Scarne used to do shows and demonstrations. The whole room can see it and the magician.

The jog shuffle stacks also in my opinion have a lot more showmanship to them. They make noise as the cards are shuffled and because the cards are in the hands - it shows up better so a whole room can see it.

If your interested in some jog shuffle stacks and techniques I suggest Erdnase Expert at the card table. Ed Marlo's Lessin out culling and stacking methods in his book - lets see the deck ( I think). And some of the work Jimmy "Cards" Molinari put on to his DVD his Molinari cull is well worth learning.

As a table riffle shuffle stack the one I use the most is the Triumph Stack using the old Dai Vernon Triumph shuffle to stack the four aces off the bottom of the deck.

I published it in several message boards and also wrote it up in my 4th blog book that is at my web site.

www.bishmagic.org

It is an easy no fuss way to stack cards using the triumph riffle shuffle that was invented by Dai Vernon. Stacking the cards from the bottom of the deck.

I hope this helps.
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Postby Cugel » 05/12/08 06:10 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:I don't have any of Darwin's books or DVD's.


That's too bad.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/12/08 06:28 PM

Why? Would you give them a ten?

I did have the pleasure of seeing Darwin lecture in the back of Magic Inc. In Chicago in the late 70's early 80's.

However I would give the lecture more than a ten.

It was great!

Just my opinion.
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Postby Cugel » 05/13/08 06:23 AM

Yes. Yes, I would.

I am amazed, given your known obsession with card magic, that you have none of his books.

As an Englishman once said to Mark Twain, "Mr Twain, I'd give ten pounds not to have read your book Huckleberry Finn." Which stunned Twain until the fellow continued, "Because then I would have the inestimable pleasure of being able to read it again for the first time."

I envy you the enjoyment that lies ahead.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/13/08 10:37 AM

Yes there are a lot of magic books that I don't own and have not read that are published today about card magic. Like I said in the thread that talked about magic theory - many of them were published way "after" I got into magic.

My foundation took a different path. In reading material for card magic that was commercial - and that made great stuff to perform for an audience - the Harry Loryane books were and still are great for commercial card magic ideas and routines.

For technique and inspiration - I found books like "The card magic of LePaul by Paul LePaul, Erdnase, Ed Marlo's Published works and the published works of Dai Vernon - well worth learning.

As I have mentioned - most of this stuff was published way before the stuff that is published today. Books like Marlo in spades - called the dream book when it was first published because many magicians did not think the ideas were practical at the time that this book was published.

I find the spade book one of the best books on card magic.

Then besides reading I spent time with magicians like Jack Pyle and Billy Bishop - who knew a thing or two about card magic and what was "commercial" in card magic.

Yes there are a lot of books on cards that I do not own and have not read - however I never considered that to have held me back.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Cugel » 05/13/08 06:01 PM

I envy you the enjoyment that lies ahead.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/14/08 09:06 AM

Sorry but I do not have the time to read magic books like I had the time when I was just starting out in magic. From 1965 - to about 1980 was the time that I purchased the most magic books. Most of this library was given to a friend who was a magician that helped me get into computers back when I closed down my Dads old magic shop after he had a stroke.

I am trying to find the time to write books not read them. I have a new shell game book that I am writing - also a book about the punch deal that will have some things that did not fit on the DVD that I produced.

I am also writing a book about culling and stacking using the triumph shuffle - including culling and stacking on the fly. And from a slug like I do in this video.

http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/GlennB ... riumph.wmv

However card magic is only one thing that I do out of "many" things that I do in many magic acts that I do to earn a living doing magic - I do not have the "obsession" about card magic as some may think.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 05/14/08 09:48 AM

Glenn Bishop wrote:Sorry but I do not have the time to read magic books ...
I am trying to find the time to write books not read them...


Such has led some to clutter our literature with minor re-discoveries.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 05/14/08 11:52 AM

If I may, I think the problem is not people who write magic books without reading large numbers of them, but people who print their books without first checking with someone who is familiar with the literature. I was very lucky that before printing Scripting Magic, I took Max Maven to lunch and asked him dozens of crediting questions. I also show almost everything I come up with to a number of well-read friends, most notably Bill Goodwin, librarian at the Castle.

There are a lot of people with a lot of knowledge who will go out of their way to help anyone who is interested in getting the credits right.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/14/08 12:54 PM

Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Glenn Bishop wrote:Sorry but I do not have the time to read magic books ...
I am trying to find the time to write books not read them...


Such has led some to clutter our literature with minor re-discoveries.


Sorry but I do not agree.

It may be easy for some in magic to dismiss - or not value the work of others. Or to perhaps consider an improvement of another as simple clutter.

But in my opinion clutter or magic material that is of no value to one magician - may be of great value to another. If that is what they are into and what they are reading is the first that they have read upon the subject or the method.

My search in magic is not to buy every card magic book that is out there. And then add what I feel are improvements to the work.

My search in magic is only for practical performance material for doing shows. Not to have a performing repartee of several tricks that I perform for friends.

But for "good practical performance material and techniques I can use" for a show to sell for money as a service to clients and customers that need entertainment for some kind of an event. I do not have the time to read many magic books - like I had the time when I was younger in the days that I was starting out in magic.

If I am reading a magic book and in it I find something that I already know - or do better - I do not consider the published work as clutter.

When I find time to read that is and it is rare today because I am busy with other projects and making a living in magic. But in doing shows I work out stuff that works for me - like many of the old school magicians did back in the old days. I am talking about magicians like Billy Bishop, Jack Pyle and Don Alan - and many others. Performing Magic Shows to me is a business. To some it may be a job but to me it is a career.

"Sorry but I do not have the time to read magic books ...
I am trying to find the time to write books not read them..."

Perhaps I should have said - I am not looking for any more methods in card shark material because I have my own methods and they work for me.

And by writing a book about my methods or producing a DVD - that is just my way of documenting my own work.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 05/14/08 01:51 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:...I have my own methods and they work for me...


It's making sure they are new (or the bits of other folks work that you have combined are identified) that forms one aspect of the clutter prevention. Finding ways to communicate how a thing works for you and how it can be adapted to work for others can make your findings valuable to others.
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Postby Eoin O'hare » 05/14/08 04:48 PM

Glenn, I have just finished reading the last couple of posts you've made in this thread.

I was going to give you my opinion of your comments, but you know what?, I just can't be arsed to read your previous posts, in order to make my comment have any sense of context or accuracy.

So I just don't feel qualified to comment... my comment could be misinformed, repetitive, inspired or just plain wrong.....Feck it...gotta go, I've half read another thread I really want to share my opinion on.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/14/08 06:47 PM

Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Glenn Bishop wrote:...I have my own methods and they work for me...


It's making sure they are new (or the bits of other folks work that you have combined are identified) that forms one aspect of the clutter prevention. Finding ways to communicate how a thing works for you and how it can be adapted to work for others can make your findings valuable to others.


I am not sure if "new" would be the word I would use when talking about magic - or card sharp magic - a special branch of magic.

When talking about magic instead of using words like new or better technique - I often use the word different - or a different point of view or a different slant on a magic technique or a routine!

Having said that card sharp magic has a lot of material that is written about a lot of stuff is the same thing over and over again - yet different. Take the second deal. Erdnase, Bill Simon, Mickey McDoogle, Marlo, Vernon and many others published a lot of different things on the second deal.

The second deal is a strike or a push off for the most part.

I wouldn't put one method over another yet I see each person that published ideas on how to do a second deal. And how to use a second deal as being a good thing - and not clutter.

The same for the bottom run ups or stacking methods. I am glad I can choose between the Erdnase system and the Marlo Lessin out method of stacking - or something different altogether.

Each person that writes a book on this subject is giving their own point of view on things like the second deal and perhaps stacking methods and other techniques.

That to me is not clutter that is giving a magician more stuff to choose and find something that might work for them.

When I was doing comedy clubs and I wanted to do the needle trick. I got every method of doing the needle trick that I could get my hands on. Then using the many different ways to do it and many different points of view as a starting point. I was able to work out something different that worked for me.

In my opinion one gets to a point when they have several ways to stack poker hands - they are all good if they work. But the best one in my opinion for me would be the one that "works" - and gets the job done when performing it in a magic show performance situation - using it to entertain an audience.

The same with the second deal when I wanted to learn how to do a second deal. I got every book that had information on the second deal and read and worked on the information.

One of the great things in my opinion is that there is a lot of published stuff today - that wasn't around when I started magic.

However - being a performer doing shows - after a time one learns enough card work. Years ago I had a conversation with Jack Pyle. And he said to me something like - "I know enough card tricks and I have an act. What I look for is little bits of business and little things to make what I do - and what I have been doing for years - go over better or stronger with my audience".

I was very young at the time and really did not understand what he meant when he said that. But having been doing magic for more than a few years. I think I understand what he was talking about.

I would also like to add a moment of Zen in here at this time if I may. Often at times I feel that this story has a lot to do with learning magic.

It is the story of the Zen master and a student and the cup of tea. And the student is telling the Zen master about life. As the student talks - the Zen master fills the students cup till it over fills the cup.

The student says something like "master you over filled the cup and tea is spilling".

The Zen master says something like this to the student - "yes now you must empty your cup before you can sample my cup of tea".

I think this story has a lot to do with magic, magicians, teaching, publishing and learning magic today.

But that is just my opinion.
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Postby Cugel » 05/15/08 04:48 AM

Eoin O'Hare wrote:Glenn, I have just finished reading the last couple of posts you've made in this thread.

I was going to give you my opinion of your comments, but you know what?, I just can't be arsed to read your previous posts, in order to make my comment have any sense of context or accuracy.

So I just don't feel qualified to comment... my comment could be misinformed, repetitive, inspired or just plain wrong.....Feck it...gotta go, I've half read another thread I really want to share my opinion on.


Glenn, did you appreciate the subtle allegorical nature of Eoin's post?
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/15/08 09:55 AM

Yes - I found it just as amusing and unimportant as what you posted Cugel. Just as unimportant as what you posted in the thread about theory.

This thread started about a guy asking about what book a run up was in. The question was answered. Several weeks later I provided a link to a run up that I discovered several years ago that used the triumph shuffle.

That is in a "free" e-book at my web site.

Then the thread got side tracked by a person hiding behind a screen name that said this "I am amazed, given your known obsession with card magic, that you have none of his books."

Being the good natured person that I am I decide that this may be a person that is not just trolling or trying to jerk my chain - I try to answer the question.

So from my point of view I offer yet another opinion based on my experience and my education about magic as to the whys in my education and my experience.

I answered your questions Cugel and others to the best of my ability. I don't really care about the little unimportant remarks that are above that came along the way - that in my opinion are nothing more than clutter.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Cugel » 05/15/08 04:31 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:Yes - I found it just as amusing and unimportant as what you posted Cugel. Just as unimportant as what you posted in the thread about theory.


Huh?

This thread started about a guy asking about what book a run up was in. The question was answered. Several weeks later I provided a link to a run up that I discovered several years ago that used the triumph shuffle.

That is in a "free" e-book at my web site.

Then the thread got side tracked by a person hiding behind a screen name that said this "I am amazed, given your known obsession with card magic, that you have none of his books."


No, actually: it was a genuine question. It is clear that you love magic (and especially card magic). I was honestly curious that you had never read Darwin's books (either by accident, deliberately, or whatever). I really think you would enjoy them and derive a lot of benefit from them.

Being the good natured person that I am I decide that this may be a person that is not just trolling or trying to jerk my chain - I try to answer the question.


An ironic statement since you have misinterpreted my intentions and assumed the worst.

So from my point of view I offer yet another opinion based on my experience and my education about magic as to the whys in my education and my experience.

I answered your questions Cugel and others to the best of my ability. I don't really care about the little unimportant remarks that are above that came along the way - that in my opinion are nothing more than clutter.


My dear fellow: you state you are writing a book on card magic. And yet you behave like a magical Luddite proudly boasting of your failure to educate yourself by reading significant texts that have been published since - I don't know - the 70's? I suggest that is the point Eoin was making.

Just my opinion.


Your usual caveat...

Glenn - it is clear you have a passion for magic. It is also clear you have a desire for attention. If you don't like the attention you get, consider the impression your posts will make before you hit the "submit" button.

I envy you the enjoyment that awaits should you decide to swallow your misplaced pride and read Darwin's books (and those of a few others that have been published since Marlo died).

Just my opinion.
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Postby Eoin O'hare » 05/15/08 05:32 PM

Glenn, I am beginning to come round to your way of thinking.

You are right, why bother reading books later than the 80's.

By the way, when will your new book be out?
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/16/08 09:23 AM

Eoin O'Hare wrote:Glenn, I am beginning to come round to your way of thinking. You are right, why bother reading books later than the 80's.


Sorry - that is not what I am saying at all.

Eoin O'Hare wrote:By the way, when will your new book be out?


Several books and several DVD projects in the works but I don't think I will release them - I have stopped selling DVD's months ago - and I have no plans on releasing any new material that I am writing and producing.

Good luck with your search for new magic material.

Best wishes.
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Postby Cugel » 05/16/08 09:49 AM

Glenn Bishop wrote:Several books and several DVD projects in the works but I don't think I will release them - I have stopped selling DVD's months ago - and I have no plans on releasing any new material that I am writing and producing.


I admire your self-discipline, Glenn. If more authors (with no knowledge of the history of card magic over the last 30 years) refrained from rushing to publication - magic would be a lot better off. You're setting a great example.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/16/08 12:00 PM

Since this thread is about stacking and the question was answered a long time ago I would like to add this opinion on stacking using the triumph shuffle if I may.

The funny thing about stacking and doing run ups is that most if not all the methods that have been published in magic - they all stack the four aces from the bottom of the deck. Or three aces are at the bottom of the deck and one ace is on the top.

Experimenting with several different methods one of the problems of doing a riffle shuffle stack is that if the magician is stacking the four aces from the bottom of the deck. As the aces are stacked one at a time they go deeper into the deck the magician might lose one or more of the aces as they riffle stack the aces and the magician continues to stack each ace in turn.

I have found the Triumph shuffle that Dai Vernon came up with and was published in the classic book the stars of magic - a great riffle shuffle for stacking aces from the bottom. Because it is a false and a block transfer shuffle - with practice and experimenting I found that it solved the problem I had in many of the methods that I experimented with in stacking the four aces with the riffle shuffle.

I also think that the Triumph shuffle has sort of fallen by the way-side in card magic - magicians favor other riffle shuffle techniques over the classic triumph shuffle.

Further experimenting with the triumph shuffle I found that it makes a great cull shuffle to cull the four aces. And through further experimenting I found that I could cull and stack the aces on the fly from a shuffled deck. That is using this technique - I can take a shuffled deck and stack two - three - four of an kind on the fly.

That led to further experimenting with the triumph shuffle and later I found that I could stack a hand from a slug. That is from a group of cards that are not on the top or the bottom of the deck. Most stacking methods that are in print - if not all of them - in magic books teach methods of stacking the aces from the bottom or the top of the deck.

As far as I know there are not any methods in print that I have been able to find that stack cards from a slug of cards that are not on the top or the bottom. This led to a great 5 card stud demo that I have bee doing lately. That is I deal out five hands of five card stud. Pick the hands up - then put the hands on top of the deck and then I cull stack using my slant of the triumph shuffle to cull stack a hand from the cards I spotted from previous deal - to get at least three of a kind in the next deal in a demonstration.

That may not seem like a big deal to some magicians but it is a big deal to me. Being able to cull and stack on the fly using a riffle shuffle. And being able to cull stack from a slug of cards that are not on the top of the deck or the bottom of the deck.

To me that is very cool.

Further experimenting I found that I could cull stack more than one hand from a slug of cards giving one player four kings and another player four jacks and me the dealer the four aces.

http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/GlennB ... riumph.wmv

All these techniques using the triumph shuffle and one or two more have been documented on a DVD that I produced last month. Now I am wring a book about this and the punch deal and the three shell game. I have no plans in releasing any of this at all - like I released DVDs in the past.

Selling magic DVDs magic products etc. Is just not my thing.

And like my ideas of culling and stacking on the fly using the punch and a jog shuffle cull - I have never seen any of it written in in any magic book.

http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/glennb ... chcull.wmv

Stacking the four aces from the bottom of the deck is great - I am not trying to say that being able to cull stack the aces on the fly - or to be able to cull stack them from a slug that it is not on the top or the bottom of the deck is a better way to do it. Its just different.

Well I am going to close this post and my participation in this thread with saying this - to each their own!

Just my opinion.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 05/16/08 02:28 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:Further experimenting I found that I could cull stack more than one hand from a slug of cards giving one player four kings and another player four jacks and me the dealer the four aces.

http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/GlennB ... riumph.wmv


What is the background music you used here?
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Postby Bob Gerdes » 05/16/08 04:03 PM

Am I the only one who thinks the triumph shuffle is exposed in that clip?

P.S. Bill... that sounds like the same music from the Charlie Miller clip that is floating around the web, but I think the Miller clip was originally from Glenn's website.
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Postby Eoin O'hare » 05/16/08 05:05 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:

Sorry - that is not what I am saying at all.


Are you sure? I might have only read a couple of your posts, albeit in a half arsed sort of way, but I'm sure you said something like that. Maybe I should read more of your posts to avoid any misinterpretation!
I must read before I write.- Thanks for the lesson.
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Postby Cugel » 05/16/08 06:29 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:As far as I know there are not any methods in print that I have been able to find that stack cards from a slug of cards that are not on the top or the bottom.


And you're not likely to ever find out if you refuse to read anything published after 1970.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/20/08 08:57 AM

That is very funny - If I may add that I know a little more about the published works after 1970 than you might think. I spent about 15 years as a magic trick demonstrator - first at the Marshall Brodien Magic Shop at Old Chicago amusement park.

Then at Bishop's Magic Shop Oak Park location and Bishop's Magic Shop Riverside location.

Between 1975 and up until the about 15 years this is before the magic shop closed. I had the most sales in magic books of anyone that ever worked there in the history of "Bishops" magic shop.

In order to sell the books I had to at least - shall we say know a little bit about the product and the book and it's content. Just because I choose not to own a book and add it to my library doesn't at all say that I do not know anything about some books and their content.

Culling in magic and stacking and culling on the fly - there is not that much of that information published in magic.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Jinx » 05/20/08 07:35 PM

This thread went south fast.

Glenn Bishop wrote:
The funny thing about stacking and doing run ups is that most if not all the methods that have been published in magic - they all stack the four aces from the bottom of the deck. Or three aces are at the bottom of the deck and one ace is on the top.

Experimenting with several different methods one of the problems of doing a riffle shuffle stack is that if the magician is stacking the four aces from the bottom of the deck. As the aces are stacked one at a time they go deeper into the deck the magician might lose one or more of the aces as they riffle stack the aces and the magician continues to stack each ace in turn.


I'm thinking your a little out dated. See references below to help you.
Your missing a couple key books here.

Glenn Bishop wrote:As far as I know there are not any methods in print that I have been able to find that stack cards from a slug of cards that are not on the top or the bottom. This led to a great 5 card stud demo that I have bee doing lately. That is I deal out five hands of five card stud. Pick the hands up - then put the hands on top of the deck and then I cull stack using my slant of the triumph shuffle to cull stack a hand from the cards I spotted from previous deal - to get at least three of a kind in the next deal in a demonstration.


See Fulves Setting up exercises and blocking off part 2. Also just on the travel channel the other day in one of the "Cheating Vegas" video's. A Guy (can't remember the name) stacked from a slug. ON T.V>!!!! I was pissed when I saw this cause I consider this style the cream of the crop. Also MR. Bishop, Is that video of you doing the Zarrow cull how you do it in real time for people? You might (if you haven't yet) read Marlo's RST, while he does explain his version of the Zarrow, that's not the point -
there is stuff in there that you claim "hasn't seen print". While it doesn't distinctly deal with the Zarrow shuffle it does cover in depth block transfers. Which IMO ( might not matter to most) a block transfer is a block transfer.


Glenn Bishop wrote:And like my ideas of culling and stacking on the fly using the punch and a jog shuffle cull - I have never seen any of it written in in any magic book.


See Marlo mag #4

Glenn Bishop wrote:This led to a great 5 card stud demo that I have been doing lately. That is I deal out five hands of five card stud. Pick the hands up - then put the hands on top of the deck and then I cull stack using my slant of the triumph shuffle to cull stack a hand from the cards I spotted from previous deal.


Daley,Marlo,Vernon,Gardner, and Sadowitz (sorry Mr. Kaufman) Ring a bell at all?

While I hope you don't take this as a attack on you by any means. It just seemed you were missing a few GOOD references. Maybe you read them and forgot, who knows. I'll leave you guys with this. I made this to prove to someone that this was possible. Its just a cull, but it can be stacked just as fast. Hope you like. If it's not ok to post this here sorry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH9vdCy25fs


2 cents

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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/20/08 11:31 PM

Jinx wrote:This thread went south fast.
See Fulves Setting up exercises and blocking off part 2. Also just on the travel channel the other day in one of the "Cheating Vegas" video's. A Guy (can't remember the name) stacked from a slug. ON T.V>!!!! I was pissed when I saw this cause I consider this style the cream of the crop.



I have not read any of the Fulves or Marlo's work on this subject and at this time - it may sound strange but I do not intend to read their work on the subject.

Not until I finish publishing my own work on the subject.

Jinx wrote:Also MR. Bishop, Is that video of you doing the Zarrow cull how you do it in real time for people? You might (if you haven't yet) read Marlo's RST, while he does explain his version of the Zarrow, that's not the point -



I am not doing a Zarrow shuffle I am doing the Triumph shuffle. I don't think that you could do what I am doing in my video with the Zarrow shuffle. And to this date - I have never seen the "triumph shuffle" used the way I use it.

Jinx wrote:See Marlo mag #4
.

Your telling me that Ed Marlo came up with a jog shuffle cull using the punch? To cull and stack the cards using the punch? I did a whole DVD on the subject.

Jinx wrote: Daley,Marlo,Vernon,Gardner, and Sadowitz (sorry Mr. Kaufman) Ring a bell at all?

As my post above said - one idea leads to another if you experiment with it. And when I started working on these ideas over time - one idea led to another. As far as your list of magicians named - these works are some very rare published works in magic.

Marlo's manuscripts on riffle shuffle work were very rare even when they were in print. If I remember right - you had to have Ed Marlo's approval for them and other Marlo books in order to buy them.

And I have never seen a Marlo Magazine - I am not a collector I am a performer and I work out stuff for my show - most often on my own.

And I might add that even with your list - with the amount of card magic books that are published in magic. The list that you name and even if you added to it would still be a very short list compared to the amount of books that have been published on card magic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH9vdCy25fs

I enjoyed your video very much - great stuff. But in my video "speed" or fast shuffling is not something I go after. I also do not try to deal cards fast when doing the false dealing like a lot of magicians do today when they do card sharp stuff.

I find the triumph shuffle a shuffle that you can do slow and there is little need for speed. That in my opinion is one of the cool things about the shuffle - to bad it is sadly overlooked.

Because most magicians I have talked with favor the Zarrow.
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Postby Denis Behr » 05/21/08 04:19 AM

Glenn Bishop wrote:I have not read any of the Fulves or Marlo's work on this subject and at this time - it may sound strange but I do not intend to read their work on the subject.
Not until I finish publishing my own work on the subject.


I stopped reading your post right there. That's all I need to know.
Instead of "strange", some other adjectives might be more appropriate.

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Postby Cugel » 05/21/08 05:32 AM

Glenn Bishop wrote:That is very funny - If I may add that I know a little more about the published works after 1970 than you might think. I spent about 15 years as a magic trick demonstrator - first at the Marshall Brodien Magic Shop at Old Chicago amusement park.

Then at Bishop's Magic Shop Oak Park location and Bishop's Magic Shop Riverside location.

Between 1975 and up until the about 15 years this is before the magic shop closed. I had the most sales in magic books of anyone that ever worked there in the history of "Bishops" magic shop.

In order to sell the books I had to at least - shall we say know a little bit about the product and the book and it's content. Just because I choose not to own a book and add it to my library doesn't at all say that I do not know anything about some books and their content.

Culling in magic and stacking and culling on the fly - there is not that much of that information published in magic.

Just my opinion.


Having seen you perform I think you would derive great benefit from reading Darwin Ortiz's books.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 05/21/08 09:55 AM

Denis Behr wrote:
Glenn Bishop wrote:I have not read any of the Fulves or Marlo's work on this subject and at this time - it may sound strange but I do not intend to read their work on the subject.
Not until I finish publishing my own work on the subject.


I stopped reading your post right there. That's all I need to know.
Instead of "strange", some other adjectives might be more appropriate.

Denis


I would like to add that I do what is in the video with the Triumph shuffle. This is the shuffle that was in the Stars of magic book by Dai Vernon.

The point of the video is that in my opinion there is a lot of stuff that was done with other shuffle work can be done with the triumph shuffle. My goals in magic are very different than others in magic.

I try to simplify things and not to complicate magic. In my opinion I think that it is great that the old triumph shuffle can be used to cull cards - cull and stack cards on the fly and cull and stack multiple hands - up to "three" hands as I did in my video.

As to other complicated methods - why would I take on other methods when my own methods work - under fire in a real show?

I found it interesting that in all the card magic books that were published that only one book that was listed had information about culling cards from a slug.

I also find it interesting that just by posting video - I get nothing but negative flack. And I don't think that there is anything "strange" about that. However I do not mind at all if any magicians don't like my magic, me, my act, my techniques etc.

Well I am going to close this post and my participation in this thread with saying this - to each their own!

And that is just my opinion.
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Postby Jinx » 05/21/08 12:26 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:I have not read any of the Fulves or Marlo's work on this subject and at this time - it may sound strange but I do not intend to read their work on the subject.


Your selling your self short here. While I can understand wanting to come up with stuff on your own. If its in print, I like to read it for further ideas and to see what else is out there. If you ignore the stuff in print and pretend thats its not there. I see that as just as bad as changing the name and calling it my own. Thats the problem with magic now days.

Glenn Bishop wrote:I am not doing a Zarrow shuffle I am doing the Triumph shuffle. I don't think that you could do what I am doing in my video with the Zarrow shuffle. And to this date - I have never seen the "triumph shuffle" used the way I use it.


My mistake.Whether its 1 card or a bunch of cards a block transfer is a block transfer. Your work in the sense of the "triumph" shuffle is unique.


Glenn Bishop wrote:Your telling me that Ed Marlo came up with a jog shuffle cull using the punch? To cull and stack the cards using the punch? I did a whole DVD on the subject.

I'm not sure if you use it as a over hand shuffle and stack or table. If your using an overhand stack then no. If your using a table, yes he does cover jog, and punch cull,and stacks. I know most is in 4 some could be in 6. Also I'm not a collector.


Glenn Bishop wrote:I enjoyed your video very much - great stuff. But in my video "speed" or fast shuffling is not something I go after. I also do not try to deal cards fast when doing the false dealing like a lot of magicians do today when they do card sharp stuff.


Thank you.
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Postby Denis Behr » 05/21/08 01:28 PM

Glenn Bishop wrote:I would like to add that I do what is in the video with the Triumph shuffle. This is the shuffle that was in the Stars of magic book by Dai Vernon.


Not really. In the Triumph Shuffle you do not move the top block but rather the elongated deck underneath.
That is absolutely essential to the deceptivness, which your execution is sadly lacking.

Stacking methods with Block Transfers are of course not new. Using the Triumph Shuffle might be. But of course there is no real need to redescribe a shuffle sequence if all you do is replacing the block transfer methods. In general, almost all block transfer work can be done with either a Zarrow Shuffle, Strip-Out Shuffle or variations of those shuffles (like the Triumph Shuffle).
Consequently, it is important to know what's out there already.

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Postby Eoin O'hare » 05/21/08 02:28 PM

I have not read any of Glenn Bishop's work on this subject and at this time - it may sound strange but I do not intend to read his work on the subject.
Designer & Maker of The Stripper Jig Card Trimmer
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Postby Jinx » 05/21/08 03:02 PM

Denis Behr wrote:Stacking methods with Block Transfers are of course not new. Using the Triumph Shuffle might be. But of course there is no real need to redescribe a shuffle sequence if all you do is replacing the block transfer methods. In general, almost all block transfer work can be done with either a Zarrow Shuffle, Strip-Out Shuffle or variations of those shuffles (like the Triumph Shuffle).
Consequently, it is important to know what's out there already.

Denis


Thats what I was trying to say. Well said.

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