One exposure site feels the pain...

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.

Postby Sue Anne Webster » 04/16/08 04:16 AM

Looks like there is a way to shut down these magic exposure sites after all.

Take a look
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Postby Joe Pecore » 04/16/08 08:28 AM

How will going to an Andre Kohl show help?

Looks like the wrong link Tim.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/16/08 08:38 AM

Joe Pecore wrote:How will going to an Andre Kohl show help?

Looks like the wrong link Tim.


It will help you feel the love of the lickle baby Jesus.
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Postby naquada » 04/16/08 09:42 AM

I think he actually meant this
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 04/16/08 09:55 AM

??? - the critter bought the DVD and offered it as a download on his site - not an "interpretation" or "work inspired by" but the actual copyrighted content... amazing.
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Postby Bob Farmer » 04/16/08 11:10 AM

Tim, this is great and this is exactly what U.S. creators should do -- call the FBI. In Canada, it's the RCMP. That's what the large TV and movie companies do. As usual the thief is whining about how much it's going to cost to "fight this thing" -- and if he only had the money, he'd be found innocent. Sure pal, you're the victim!
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Postby mrgoat » 04/16/08 11:17 AM

Bob Farmer wrote:Tim, this is great and this is exactly what U.S. creators should do -- call the FBI. In Canada, it's the RCMP. That's what the large TV and movie companies do. As usual the thief is whining about how much it's going to cost to "fight this thing" -- and if he only had the money, he'd be found innocent. Sure pal, you're the victim!


No, they shouldn't. The more you publicly fight content theft with large public lawsuits the more you advertise the locations of where this stuff can be found.

Has happened with the MPAA and RIAA cases in the states. Traffic to the large sites went up.

http://www.slyck.com/story1218_Pirate_B ... fic_Surges

There really is nothing you can do about it. It has always been around and will always be around. Why fight battles you cannot win?

For every little site like this run by a kid there are hundreds of others, then there are torrents, then usenet, then private magic FTP servers.

It's a waste of time.

Why not think about how you could work WITH these technologies - see the MASSIVE ($750k in 3 days) success Trent Reznor had from his album sales after he released torrents of the album for free.

What could you do differently? How could you make people actually WANT to buy the physical product you sell?
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Postby Bob Farmer » 04/16/08 06:48 PM

First, this is not a civil lawsuit, it's a crime -- that's why the FBI are involved. Responding to crime and criminals with only a new business model is not good enough.


Second, though I agree that changing general business practices is a good idea, if someone steals from me, it's personal and I'm going to bury the guy any way I can.

Third, comparing the magic business to the music and film business is just silly -- the economics of the magic business are completely different. The magic business is miniscule. If a trick sells 1,000 units it's a big hit -- so any sales lost to the thieves has an enormous impact.
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Postby Lemniscate » 04/16/08 09:12 PM

I think that Bob has hit the nail on the head.
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Postby David Alexander » 04/16/08 11:15 PM

Before I moved to Illinois I had a candid conversation with the local FBI agent in charge of the copyright squad in Orange Co. California. I was specifically discussing piracy by bit torrent sites, but the principle he explained will carry over to the rest of copyright infringement for the "little guy."

While the law may say one thing, enforcement is something else again. Simply put, there isn't any...or damn little.

I was told that if the losses didn't amount to a significant amount - that is, hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars - the FBI doesn't have the interest or the manpower to devote to the matter. I was told to tell my friends whose work was in the bit torrents to "make a report." That, of course, meant that nothing would happen except their losses would become part of some spreadsheet someplace in the bowels of the Justice Department. Crime and financial loss reduced to illuminate pixels on a screen, an electronic version of the crate that held the Ark of the Covenant at the end of the first Indiana Jones movie.

If this was the pirating of a film it would be a different story as that industry is wealthy, powerful, and employs a lot of people. Losses there are in the millions...and film people support politicians with campaign donations, so when the legal department of a studio complains that their products are being ripped off, the Feds will do their job.

For the little guy, well, we're just S.O.L.
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Postby Sue Anne Webster » 04/17/08 12:13 AM

The key to this is to threaten to take them to court.

They are mainly kids and have no resources to fight in court, whether they win or lose it will STILL cost them legal fees.

As for Mr Goat saying "Why fight battles you cannot win"...

thanks for letting us know what an easy target you must be!
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Postby mrgoat » 04/17/08 05:52 AM

Tim Ellis wrote:The key to this is to threaten to take them to court.

They are mainly kids and have no resources to fight in court, whether they win or lose it will STILL cost them legal fees.

As for Mr Goat saying "Why fight battles you cannot win"...

thanks for letting us know what an easy target you must be!


Yeah, that approach worked BRILLIANTLY for the MPAA and RIAA. You are right. I mean, file sharing with movies and music is now non-existant thanks to the legal threats made by those wonderful organisations.

Oh, hang on a sec. No, my bad. It has massively INCREASED traffic on torrent sites!

Silly me!
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Postby Sue Anne Webster » 04/17/08 07:23 AM

You seem very sure of yourself Mr Goat.

Somehow you KNOW that, if the MPAA and RIAA took no action at all, there would be less file sharing.

There is also a boom in sites like iTunes selling files legally online.

If you told me "Hey a site where they illegally share Magic Videos was shut down by the FBI and threats of legal action." and, in my humble opinion I don't think I'd be rushing to be a part of that site.

By NOT taking a stand against these sites - regardless of whether we win or lose every battle - we are accepting their existence and at the same time condoning them.

We are telling other magicians "Hey, those guys who buy a dvd then post it online for everyone to share... we've got no problem with that."

Peer pressure is a powerful force.

As is apathy.
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Postby Sue Anne Webster » 04/17/08 07:38 AM

By the way, the case you referred to in your link (The Pirate Bay) did result in more users for the web sharing site. But it did also result in more legal action against the site and it's owners.

http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.143146

The battle is still not over. If the site owners go to prison, it will definitely have an impact on other file sharing sites.

The law is trying to catch up with technology.

Until it does, we should demonstrate ethics, and if not that, at least respect for the creators of the material being stolen.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 04/17/08 08:27 AM

Exposure of magic data to non-paying magicians, exposure of magic data to non-magicians, unauthorized propagation of copyrighted material and the ethics of file sharing on the internet are distinct issues.

Muddy the waters enough and you can ...
Last edited by Jonathan Townsend on 04/17/08 08:29 AM, edited 0 times in total.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/17/08 09:15 AM

Tim Ellis wrote:You seem very sure of yourself Mr Goat.


I believe very strongly in this. Hence my attitude.

Tim Ellis wrote:Somehow you KNOW that, if the MPAA and RIAA took no action at all, there would be less file sharing.


Oh please Tim. If you are going to argue against me at least argue against what I posted, not inventing things I said.

I KNOW that the cases against individuals from the MPAA and RIAA led to an increase in traffic to all torrent sites. You can go to alexa.com, and type in the sites, and the dates big lawsuits happened and see the spikes. That is what I know.

Tim Ellis wrote:There is also a boom in sites like iTunes selling files legally online.


Brilliant. Don't understand the relevance of this?

Tim Ellis wrote:If you told me "Hey a site where they illegally share Magic Videos was shut down by the FBI and threats of legal action." and, in my humble opinion I don't think I'd be rushing to be a part of that site.


Me neither. Your point?

Tim Ellis wrote:By NOT taking a stand against these sites - regardless of whether we win or lose every battle - we are accepting their existence and at the same time condoning them.


So the alternative is to publicise their existance and increase their traffic? No thanks, I would prefer to just ignore them. If - in your mind - that is me condoning this, sobeit. I don't fight battles I cannot win.


Tim Ellis wrote:We are telling other magicians "Hey, those guys who buy a dvd then post it online for everyone to share... we've got no problem with that."


No. We are saying "If you post links to rapidshare piratebay isohunt etc you will increase traffic to those sites. You will also alert people that possibly didn't know how easy it was to obtain pirated material to go and get it. If you want to close down a site for file trading, then contact the company that hosts the site, tell them there is illegal content on it, and ask for it to be removed." Bragging about how wonderful you are for doing this on a magic forum or blog is actually helping the pirates. Also, bear in mind that you cannot shut down rapidshare, or any torrentsites. This will only work on privately owned sites that are directly hosting stolen content on their servers.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/17/08 09:20 AM

Tim Ellis wrote:By the way, the case you referred to in your link (The Pirate Bay) did result in more users for the web sharing site.


Yes it did. Thank you for acknowledging that.

If you really think the MPAA and RIAA have so much power they can force sweden to change its laws, you are wrong.

The piratebay is breaking the same law as google. LINKING to somewhere where you MIGHT be able to get stolen content.

search for "jay sankey torrent" on google.

Look! Places you can download torrents of jay sankey's content.

That's all the pirate bay is doing. The media may try and spin it another way, but until they close down google, they won't be closing the torrent sites.

For the record, I don't agree with piracy, I think stealing other people's work is wrong. But, I do believe that there is no way to stop torrent sites.

I guess time will tell who is right. Since the dawn of the printing press people have tried to stop piracy and have failed. In fact, the printing press was thought of as a device of piracy when it was invented. But if you wanna push water uphill, if it makes you feel better great. Just don't post about it on websites as that helps the pirates.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 04/17/08 09:28 AM

As an experiment I went to the searchbar at the upper right of my browser window and typed in "torrent FAQ how to download video files" and found this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNZ3m9sXZ74

Given that the tools and tutorials are in place for all and sundry, IMHO, part of this discussion is like dinosaurs debating whether or not the use of feathers is ethical while somehow ignoring the fact that rodents are...

We might be better served by keeping focus on those who "expose" and those who publicly offer other people's copyrighted material without express permission as if such "teaching" is ethical or even congruent to the basic tenants of our craft.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/17/08 09:42 AM

Jonathan Townsend wrote:As an experiment I went to the searchbar at the upper right of my browser window and typed in "torrent FAQ how to download video files" and found this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNZ3m9sXZ74

Given that the tools and tutorials are in place for all and sundry, IMHO, part of this discussion is like dinosaurs debating whether or not the use of feathers is ethical while somehow ignoring the fact that rodents are...

We might be better served by keeping focus on those who "expose" and those who publicly offer other people's copyrighted material without express permission as if such "teaching" is ethical or even congruent to the basic tenants of our craft.


Hehe JT. Yes, exactly, great analogy. It's not like it's a secret

What I really like is how musicians are embracing this technology and using it to their advantage. Canada just used torrent technology to distribute a TV show. The BBC here in England are about to use it for ALL their shows.

Clearly there are more Radiohead fans than there are Doc Eason ones. However, point still applies. Think outside the box.
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Postby Bob Farmer » 04/17/08 09:45 AM

The size of the magic world provides an easier solution. It is a small comunity, so when someone breaks the rules, identify the person and shun them. If they are members of the IBM or the SAM, file a complaint. Notify their local magic shop. Notify their local magic club. Get rid of these vermin.
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Postby Brad Henderson » 04/17/08 12:05 PM

A young lady I know was sued by the RIAA for having downloaded songs illegally. They are after her for a $3,000 settlement. That was their price tag regardless of the number of songs taken.

Will this stop people from downloading songs illegally? Probably not.

Has it stopped her and her friends...definitely.

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Postby mrgoat » 04/17/08 02:01 PM

They also sued a dead woman for doing the same thing.

I wonder if her friends stopped downloading music too?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/05 ... _the_dead/

And a 12 year old little girl who thought she was doing no crime as had paid 30 dollars a month to a site

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/09/09 ... _the_face/

--

You know how we all have a friend who had a spooky experience and swears blind it was supernatural forces?

Your tale seems like that to me. I am sure she has stopped stealing songs. With iTunes, eMusic and all the other good legal services, there is no excuse for stealing music.

However, have 'all' her friends stopped? How many stole content beforehand? I honestly don't know many people that steal content. Maybe cos I have nice friends? who knows.

However, one thing that is a demonstrable fact is that large scale public prosecution of individuals by the RIAA and MPAA increases traffic to file trading sites and thus file trading. For all of your friend's friends that stopped, there are dozens of other people that STARTED stealing content because they heard about how easy it was to do via the publicity.

Click here to see the success of the RIAA against the piratebay

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traff ... ize=Medium
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Postby Brad Henderson » 04/17/08 03:12 PM

Basically, if it doesn't come out of your mouth, you refuse to accept anything as being remotely true...that's you're M.O., right Goat?
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Postby Naphtalia » 04/17/08 03:48 PM

I believe in protecting intellectual property when one becomes aware of violations. It's my understanding that if you don't protect such material in small cases you of which you are aware, you may lose the right to them when larger violations occur.

As to publicity, I believe in keeping quiet about such legal procedings for the very reason that it does help to drive the market.

Sadly no perfect solution on this one.
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Postby Lemniscate » 04/17/08 07:33 PM

Took the words right out of my mouth, Naphtalia.

In this type of case, a decision not to pursue one's rights can (and has) been interpreted as a waiving of these rights. mrgoat can argue the effects or the points all he wants but the fact remains: if you want any type of protection, you need to pursue legal avenues when you become aware of infringement of your copyrights.

There is a logical fallacy that mrgoat seems to be engaged in(reducia ad absurdum if I remember correctly). The fact that is a logical fallacy seems a bit beyond his reach, however. Pursuing your rights, any rights, will not make all crime (which is a violation of your rights) go away. Me reporting a burlary next door will not stop all robbery, and to try to stretch that argument to there is actully pretty stupid. However, it will help with the exact problem at hand.

Also, for the record, arguing that stopping in person robbery won't prevent online robbery is also... um... logically suspect, to say the least. As for me, if I see somebody breaking in next door, I am calling the cops and not engaging in pointless rants about how crime will continue no matter what I do and, frankly, I think people who do make that argument are pretty stupid...sorry, sadly lacking in common sense is more PC.

Lem

Edit: It has been raised to my attention that mrgoat's argument is actually this:

If you see somebody robbing your house, you should not call the police. Robberies are low on the priority scale and, more than that, crime will continue regardless of whether or not you report it. I hope we can all see the stupi... lack of common sense here. Really really sad that somebody can even make this kind of argument, what has this world come to?
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Postby mrgoat » 04/17/08 07:48 PM

Brad Henderson wrote:Basically, if it doesn't come out of your mouth, you refuse to accept anything as being remotely true...that's you're M.O., right Goat?



No, I just like some evidence. I can't see anyone coming forward with anything that disproves my point.

You wouldn't expect me to believe in something just cos your told me your friend believes in something and so do all her friends would you?
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Postby mrgoat » 04/17/08 07:57 PM

Lemniscate wrote:Took the words right out of my mouth, Naphtalia.

In this type of case, a decision not to pursue one's rights can (and has) been interpreted as a waiving of these rights. mrgoat can argue the effects or the points all he wants but the fact remains: if you want any type of protection, you need to pursue legal avenues when you become aware of infringement of your copyrights.

There is a logical fallacy that mrgoat seems to be engaged in(reducia ad absurdum if I remember correctly). The fact that is a logical fallacy seems a bit beyond his reach, however. Pursuing your rights, any rights, will not make all crime (which is a violation of your rights) go away. Me reporting a burlary next door will not stop all robbery, and to try to stretch that argument to there is actully pretty stupid. However, it will help with the exact problem at hand.

Also, for the record, arguing that stopping in person robbery won't prevent online robbery is also... um... logically suspect, to say the least. As for me, if I see somebody breaking in next door, I am calling the cops and not engaging in pointless rants about how crime will continue no matter what I do and, frankly, I think people who do make that argument are pretty stupid...sorry, sadly lacking in common sense is more PC.

Lem

Edit: It has been raised to my attention that mrgoat's argument is actually this:

If you see somebody robbing your house, you should not call the police. Robberies are low on the priority scale and, more than that, crime will continue regardless of whether or not you report it. I hope we can all see the stupi... lack of common sense here. Really really sad that somebody can even make this kind of argument, what has this world come to?


Golly gee you seem like an angry chap. Let's pick apart your somewhat rude and agressive post and see if we can get you to understand my point shall we? Ready? Off we go now...

My argument is if you find a way to really easily rob someone's house YOU SHOULDN'T POST INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO DO THAT ON THE INTERNET.

And you shouldn't DISCUSS where to FIND instructions on how to rob someone's house. If you do this MORE HOUSES WILL BE ROBBED.

However, if you SEE someone robbing someone's house using these methods, indeed report them to the relevant authorities. Just don't make blog posts or forums posts saying how great you are for doing so as this LETS MORE PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO ROB HOUSES.

Really. Don't try to make me out as something I am not. Do not put words into my mouth. Please do not create appallingly flawed analogies trying to explain my point, then end up missing my point and vaguely insinuating I am some kind of pro-copyright theft monkey. If you wish to disagree with me, I would defend to the death your right to do so. Just please don't be rude about it. There isn't a need.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/17/08 08:01 PM

Naphtalia wrote:I believe in protecting intellectual property when one becomes aware of violations. It's my understanding that if you don't protect such material in small cases you of which you are aware, you may lose the right to them when larger violations occur.

As to publicity, I believe in keeping quiet about such legal procedings for the very reason that it does help to drive the market.

Sadly no perfect solution on this one.


Hi Naphtalia, nice to see you! (albeit virtually)

I agree with you entirely about publicity. Although I believe what you are talking about initially is trademark, not IP. I am no lawyer and certainly probably wrong. But, my belief is if you have a trademark (digg.com) and someone makes (bigg.com) using a similar logo, and makes a similar site you MUST defend your tm and send them cease and desist etc.

I cannot see a copyright holder losing his/her rights if they content is on a torrent site?

Otherwise most of hollywood, the software and adult industries would have no copyright left at all! ;)
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Postby Sue Anne Webster » 04/17/08 08:10 PM

mrgoat wrote: Bragging about how wonderful you are for doing this on a magic forum or blog is actually helping the pirates.


How am I helping them by posting this topic? I didn't identify the site, all I said was that one has been forced to shut down thanks to legal threats.

As one who claims to be against this sort of piracy I would think you'd be pleased, and not so negative.


As an insight into the minds of the people who set up these kind of sites, here is a comment sent to me from the owner of said site. He seems to think he's the "Robin Hood of magic", stealing from the rich and giving to the poor.

------------------------------------------------------

Hello,

I would like to clear some things up. You guys are not much better by spreading negative comments around. Look how your almost "insulting" our community. If you would read into it our user base was 80% 3rd world countries, many of which none of these distributors ship to. Put yourself in a Lithuanian's shoes. Say you loved magic, loved the art form, and loved the concept, yet you were too poor to get your own DVD. Even if you DID have enough money to purchase it you where not able to have it shipped to your region.

Please look at both sides, not just a one-sided "You are all thieves"

Thanks
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Postby Bob Farmer » 04/17/08 08:15 PM

"Put yourself in a Lithuanian's shoes."

If they can afford shoes, they can pay for my tricks.
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Postby Kurt Lee Flickner » 04/17/08 08:16 PM

Many years ago, I worked in Corporate Retail Management. The company I worked for the longest, had a strong policy. Every shoplifter was prosecuted, our loss management department, put all it's presuure on DAs to make sure that happened. When an employee or a customer was caught stealing, we made sure the police, escorted them out of the store in front of everyone, in handcuffs.

Not all retailers do this, many believe, it is better to sweep such things under the carpet, keep it all quiet, pretend it is not happening, so others don't get similar ideas. Even when shoplifters are caught and prosecuted, they don't want it to be general knowledge.

The corporation, I worked for had the lowest loss percentage compared to any other major retailer, some as much as 3 times the difference.

No, it doesn't stop everyone, but it definatly makes a lot of people think twice. Word gets around!

The same will happen to these scum bags, but only if we are persistant, and do everything to take them down. We won't get rid of them all, but we can have a major impact.
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www.MagicEstateSale.com
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Postby mrgoat » 04/17/08 08:28 PM

Tim Ellis wrote:
mrgoat wrote: Bragging about how wonderful you are for doing this on a magic forum or blog is actually helping the pirates.


How am I helping them by posting this topic? I didn't identify the site, all I said was that one has been forced to shut down thanks to legal threats.

As one who claims to be against this sort of piracy I would think you'd be pleased, and not so negative.[/quote/

I am pleased it's shut down. I don't know why you posted saying you had done it though. Now, as a 13 year old new magician reading your blog for the first time, I realise that there are website you can steal magic! How cool! And I know the names of some of the people to google to see if I can find where they come up again! Super cool!

Clearly, I am in fact not 13. But you see my point. Also, now this whole thread has appeared, as a result of your post. Thus further aggravating the problem.

I applaud you for getting the site closed. I really do. I just don't see the need to post about it.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/17/08 08:32 PM

Kurt Lee Flickner wrote:The same will happen to these scum bags, but only if we are persistant, and do everything to take them down. We won't get rid of them all, but we can have a major impact.


I am afraid it won't. They have tried. They have failed. I have proved it won't with links to the traffic these sites get when you do major busts.

It has nothing to do with persistence, it has to do with media publicity.

I agree with you on prosecuting shoplifters, there is a real point to that. However, if you publicised it around town, in local tv and radio saying you prosecute EVERY SINGLE robber would you actually halt all theft? Or would you send them to the other store over the road where they are more likely to get away with it?
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Postby Sue Anne Webster » 04/17/08 08:42 PM

Mr Goat, I didn't close it, nor did I claim I closed it. Please get your facts right.

A 13 year old stumbling upon my site who doesn't already know he can steal magic from a website? Is there such a creature? I doubt it.

What a 13 year old will read from my website is that MAGICIANS DO NOT APPROVE of this sort of thing and will not only shun but also try to sue people who do it.

Unless they stumble upon this threat and they might get the impression that Mr Goat seems to think these websites are here to stay and it's a pointless battle trying to stop them.
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Postby Sue Anne Webster » 04/17/08 08:45 PM

mrgoat wrote:However, if you publicised it around town, in local tv and radio saying you prosecute EVERY SINGLE robber would you actually halt all theft? Or would you send them to the other store over the road where they are more likely to get away with it?





Possibly the most inane, illogical argument in this thread so far.

"Don't protect your own store or you might drive the thieves away to someone else's store."
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Postby Sue Anne Webster » 04/17/08 09:07 PM

mrgoat wrote:They also sued a dead woman for doing the same thing.

I wonder if her friends stopped downloading music too?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/05 ... _the_dead/

And a 12 year old little girl who thought she was doing no crime as had paid 30 dollars a month to a site

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/09/09 ... _the_face/

--

You know how we all have a friend who had a spooky experience and swears blind it was supernatural forces?

Your tale seems like that to me. I am sure she has stopped stealing songs. With iTunes, eMusic and all the other good legal services, there is no excuse for stealing music.

However, have 'all' her friends stopped? How many stole content beforehand? I honestly don't know many people that steal content. Maybe cos I have nice friends? who knows.

However, one thing that is a demonstrable fact is that large scale public prosecution of individuals by the RIAA and MPAA increases traffic to file trading sites and thus file trading. For all of your friend's friends that stopped, there are dozens of other people that STARTED stealing content because they heard about how easy it was to do via the publicity.

Click here to see the success of the RIAA against the piratebay

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traff ... ize=Medium


Mr Goat, is your point here "Don't bother charging people because it doesn't stop them?" because that's how it reads.

I guess, by the same argument, judging by the number of speeding repeat offenders, we should just stop charging drivers for speeding because it obviously doesn't stop them. And those road safety campaigns where they show drivers speeding and then crashing... I guess that just publicises the fact that their cars can go a lot faster than they thought and actually encourages them to speed...
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Postby JustinRYoung » 04/17/08 11:46 PM

Goat,

I very much see where you are coming from, the challenge of stemming downloads is a complicated one. Sure, the wholesale persecution conducted by the RIAA and MPAA has not been effective. At the same time, seeding bad or fake copies of the files and authorizing an easy legal resource like iTunes has made downloading legally the viable, easy option.

Even there, there is a long way to go.

The key thing is: we are all on the same side of this issue. We want magic to thrive online. I know running iTricks.com I would love to co-opt some of the misspent passion of these kids. I would love for them to run blogs or review their favorite tricks. If we were all banned from discussing the piracy issue, imagine what their different perspective could bring to a magic debate?

We aren't going to solve piracy until we solve the cultural rift between these kids and those who know the truth, as Bob Farmer accurately said ANY COPY stolen off the internet taking away from a very thin profit margin of your average creator.

As that happens, the law should be enforced. Although if we kept the names of the sites on the down low, that wouldn't hurt anyone either...
Magic News, Rumors and Culture -iTricks.com
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Postby mrgoat » 04/18/08 04:46 AM

Tim Ellis wrote:
mrgoat wrote:However, if you publicised it around town, in local tv and radio saying you prosecute EVERY SINGLE robber would you actually halt all theft? Or would you send them to the other store over the road where they are more likely to get away with it?





Possibly the most inane, illogical argument in this thread so far.

"Don't protect your own store or you might drive the thieves away to someone else's store."


Again, where did I say that? Jebers. I said if you PUBLICISED the fact your store prosectued everyone would that stop crime in your town or drive the criminals to a store with more lax security.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/18/08 04:46 AM

Tim Ellis wrote:Mr Goat, I didn't close it, nor did I claim I closed it. Please get your facts right.


I do apologise. I thought you did.
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Postby mrgoat » 04/18/08 04:49 AM

Tim Ellis wrote:
mrgoat wrote:They also sued a dead woman for doing the same thing.

I wonder if her friends stopped downloading music too?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/05 ... _the_dead/

And a 12 year old little girl who thought she was doing no crime as had paid 30 dollars a month to a site

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/09/09 ... _the_face/

--

You know how we all have a friend who had a spooky experience and swears blind it was supernatural forces?

Your tale seems like that to me. I am sure she has stopped stealing songs. With iTunes, eMusic and all the other good legal services, there is no excuse for stealing music.

However, have 'all' her friends stopped? How many stole content beforehand? I honestly don't know many people that steal content. Maybe cos I have nice friends? who knows.

However, one thing that is a demonstrable fact is that large scale public prosecution of individuals by the RIAA and MPAA increases traffic to file trading sites and thus file trading. For all of your friend's friends that stopped, there are dozens of other people that STARTED stealing content because they heard about how easy it was to do via the publicity.

Click here to see the success of the RIAA against the piratebay

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traff ... ize=Medium


Mr Goat, is your point here "Don't bother charging people because it doesn't stop them?" because that's how it reads.


or rather "because that's how I read it"

No, as I have now repeated at least half a dozen times, my point is if you ADVERTISE the prosecution of these thieves it drives more thieves to steal because it educates them as to where they can steal from. This is irrefutable and I have provided several links with evidence that proves this.
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