Shoot Ogawa Article in MAGIC

Talk about what is being written in other magic publications.

Postby Guest » 02/27/03 09:07 PM

I found the article about Shoot in Magic Magazine to be very imformitive and interesting. Shoot sounds like an amazing performer, and I have heard some controversy over his supposed "exposure" on japanese televison. This article cleared that whole issue up for me at least. I hope I can go see Shoot perform and lecture at LVMI.

So I guess what I am saying is, did any of you guys read it, and what did you think.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/27/03 09:29 PM

If the article had been in Genii it would have had some of his tricks to accompany it!
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Postby Guest » 02/28/03 08:20 AM

That's why I stopped subscribing to Magic...They're simply not as thoughtful
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Postby Rick Schulz » 02/28/03 11:21 AM

Richard, you stated:

If the article had been in Genii it would have had some of his tricks to accompany it!

Any chance of such an article appearing in Genii any time soon? :)

BTW - thanks for March issue on Ross Bertram. It has truly "raised the bar" for magic publications. Keep up the good work! :D
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/28/03 11:40 AM

Once MAGIC does a story, we stay away from that subject for a while.
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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 02/28/03 11:51 AM

MAGIC magazine tends to examine "contours" and give readers a ten-cent tour of whatever subject is hot or at hand, an approach that has its place...just as Entertainment Weekly, National Enquirer, and USA Today have their places and niches. Many readers want chapter headings and glosses, coupled with splashy graphics. This is not necessarily a bad thing...

Although I cannot fully speak for RK, I can say with great confidence that he and I are on the same page when it comes to approaching the various subjects magicians love to think about. We resist glosses. Instead we feverishly look for "depth" and "details"--the juice and secrets that lurk below the surface.

I'm interested to know WHY Shoot's presentations now resonate with magicians. I want to REALLY know how he got the way he is. More important, I want signature tricks. One of the reasons for including explanations of someone's "magic" is that lots of subtext and interesting insights are discovered by studying WHAT HE OR SHE DOES rather than simply rummaging through the vaporous contents of a hyperbolic, press kit.

So...

Yes, GENII would have given you the Full Monty if they had written about Shoot Ogawa.

Meanwhile, check out the latest issue of PENUMBRA and luxuriate in the explanation of Shoot Ogawa's "Neo Purse Frame Routine," which includes 32 lucid photographs and 10 pages of detailed text. The only thing I would have preferred to the excellent photography would be having the supple, clarifying drawings of Earle Oakes or Ton Onosaka...

Onward...
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/28/03 03:14 PM

Jon, I haven't received the new Penumbra yet: has yours actually come in the mail?
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Postby Guest » 02/28/03 03:46 PM

Yeah, I was hoping Genii would have published something on Ogawa first. I agree with everyone saying that I loved the Bertram article. Actually that wasn't an article that was a book! And I also agree with Jon, about how Magic publishes whats hot in magic right now. I do like both magazines though, and I am glad I am subscribed to both.

Also, where can I get this issue of Penumbra, or even a subscription. I really want to learn the purse routine I have heard so much about.
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Postby C. Hampton » 02/28/03 06:34 PM

Can anyone tell me where can I get penumbra????

Thanks,

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Postby Terry » 02/28/03 07:24 PM

My issue of Penumbra arrived today and Jon is right on the money. Shoots 'Neo Purse Frame Routine' is verrry nice. The pictures are clear.

Carlos - Penumbra is $50 (US) $70 (Outside US)for 1 year of 6 issues.

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Postby Dustin Stinett » 02/28/03 07:36 PM

Received MAGIC today. Am I the only one who thinks the cover photo looks as if he's flipping me the bird?

Not that I don't deserve it just lately...
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Postby C. Hampton » 02/28/03 07:58 PM

Thank you Mr Terrell.
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Postby Terry » 03/01/03 06:00 AM

Am I the only one who thinks the cover photo looks as if he's flipping me the bird?
No, I thought to myself, 'it looks like Shoot is flipping Dustin the bird'. By the way, they are out for you....... :D :D

Carlos, you are more than welcome.
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Postby Steve Hook » 03/01/03 10:20 AM

Finally got around to reading the Shoot article and I surely agree with Jon. It starts off well but in the last 30 or 40 percent, it takes off on an odd tangent, the tv exposition issue. At the end, I felt like I'd failed to read a couple of pages or something.
:confused:

Definitely not the definitive article on Shoot Ogawa.

Relatedly, Stan Allen's interviews are usually insightful. And many of the articles are better than this one on Shoot.

But I don't think it's my imagination that, other than the previous issue with Bob Kohler on the cover, the issues from the new editor have not been what they were under Stan's direct effort. (The Kohler issue was successful to me for the Bob article and the sheer number of other articles I found interesting, e.g., Meir, H&R, etc., none of which were extensive though.)

And by the way, Mike Close did a nice job really digging through Bob's background so we could see how he got to where he is today.

That said, Genii is definitely the preeminent magic magazine today.

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Postby Ian Kendall » 03/01/03 10:23 AM

Sort of on topic, but only just;

There seems to be a lot of 'MAGIC' bashing on the forum (given the location, not exactly surprising)but one thing bothers me...

...how many of us buy Genii but not MAGIC? I enjoy reading both for the reasons everyone else has given, but I kept buying Genii through the, how shall I put it? less than stellar years of the previous publishers. I get information from both and I enjoy looking through the back issues (notwithstanding the unpleasant taste I got a couple of weeks ago upon finding the Bob Markwood special issue...).

I understand that this is a business, but how much of this is playful sniping and how much is serious?

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/01/03 10:26 AM

Ian, there is very little MAGIC bashing on this forum. I wouldn't allow it. People are free to criticize articles in ANY magazine here.
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Postby Steve Hook » 03/01/03 11:20 AM

Ian:

I subscribe to both magazines and have for many years.

My only reason for saying something critical (amidst my compliments) is, since I'm a $48.US per year subscriber to MAGIC, I hope it gets better and better.

No "sniping", which my dictionary defines as "malicious, underhand remarks or attacks".

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Postby Dustin Stinett » 03/01/03 11:23 AM

Ian,

I've taken a few swipes at MAGIC in the past, but I have a (very) small grudge I carry. Most of it is good-natured. I subscribe to both magazines and will continue to do so as long as I can.

Steve,

You may still be imagining things. Evidently John Moehring was the full-time editor for quite some time before the official change in editorship. I had an opportunity to chat with Mr. Allen in November of 2001 and I commented that I would miss his presence in the magazine. He said then that I wouldn't be missing much, that John had been doing most of the job for, "a long time."

Genii and MAGIC have only one thing in common: they are both independent magic magazines. Otherwise, they are on opposite ends of the spectrum in style and taste, and I think that's a good thing.

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Postby Dustin Stinett » 03/01/03 11:38 AM

Originally posted by Terry Terrell:
By the way, they are out for you......
I knew it! And people think I'm paranoid! HAH! It's all just one big conspiracy!
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Postby Ian Kendall » 03/01/03 11:38 AM

A clarifiaction; perhaps 'bashing' and 'sniping' were ill chosen words. But I do remember the glee when Flim Flam jumped ship :)

As for value for money; since I get my magazines from Roy's shop I pay full price which works out much more than a subscription. However, I feel I get my money's worth from both (as they are pretty much my only contact with magicians, albeit two dimentional).

Anyway, let's get back to the matter in hand. Genii would have run the tricks, eh?

Take care, Ian
Who would be quite happy never to read another description of a routine using a feke card I threw out long ago...
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 03/01/03 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Ian Kendall:
Genii would have run the tricks, eh?
That goes to divergent the styles of the magazines. MAGIC generally runs more than one personality profile, each in differing levels of depth. Obviously the featured (cover) subject gets the more in-depth article while the others are fluff pieces, often introducing the magic community to someone who is perhaps less known than they should be. Meanwhile, Genii tends to focus on a single subject and goes very deep, always including selected magic from the subject. But even when MAGIC goes “deep,” it's still not as deep as Genii. This has been a point of contention with fans of MAGIC, who feel Genii is too steeped in history.

There is a hypothetical question that arises from the Shoot Ogawa issue: Had Genii run the article, would Shoot have been prepared to part with enough magic? His star is just on the rise and it's my thinking that he may want to test the magic market even further than he already has. Of course, he did let go of a very interesting piece for Penumbra and Richard Kaufman can be a very persuasive fellow!

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Postby Steve Hook » 03/01/03 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Dustin Stinett:

Steve,

...Mr. Allen in November of 2001...said then ...that John had been doing most of the job for, "a long time."
Dustin:

As Bob Nelson said, "The mind is a terrible thing..."

Also,


Genii and MAGIC have only one thing in common: they are both independent magic magazines. Otherwise, they are on opposite ends of the spectrum in style and taste, and I think that's a good thing.

Dustin
Point well-taken. And I, too, will continue to subscribe to both, preferring the in-depth style of Genii.

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Postby Frank Yuen » 03/01/03 05:48 PM

I enjoyed the Shoot article but it did leave me wishing more indepth coverage. Perhaps in lieu of an article on Shoot, Genii could do an article on Masahiro Yanagida. I am intrigued by his "team". I would love to discover more about the EMC competitions as well. 56 coin rolls in one minute! :eek:

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Postby Guest » 03/01/03 11:21 PM

I will take the opposite view, but bear me out. Last year, I decided not to renew Genii and stay with MAGIC only. I guessed my attention span was becoming too short for the in-depth material in Genii. I found the articles in MAGIC concise; I didn't really want a "whole dissertation" on a subject. HOWEVER, I admit that I began to crave for the fascinating choice of articles that Genii offered, so I just recently renewed my subscription to Genii.
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Postby Terry » 03/02/03 06:09 AM

I agree with Dustin as to each magazine appealing to different personalities for individual reasons.

MAGIC seems to be written like most entertainment style magazines. The rule being most articles are no longer than what can be read during a normal bowel movement (let's be honest - with wives/girlfriends, kids, pets or just life in general - the bathroom is the ONLY real alone time we get).

Genii, on the other hand, has moved into the more detailed information arena which appeals to me more and more as I get older. I want to know more about the person and why they do what they do and not so much how. I have enough books of tricks.

HAH! It's all just one big conspiracy!
Dustin, just ignore that sound outside...it's only the little black helicopters......
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Postby Matthew Field » 03/03/03 08:16 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
I haven't received the new Penumbra yet: has yours actually come in the mail?
My Penumbra arrived in the mail and, as Jon said the Shoot Ogawa"Neo Coins from Purseframe" is one of the best coin effects I've seen in some time. Simply inspiring material.

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Postby Steve Bryant » 03/03/03 08:32 AM

Originally posted by Terry Terrell:
(let's be honest - with wives/girlfriends, kids, pets or just life in general - the bathroom is the ONLY real alone time we get)
The worst (regardless of which room of the house you happen to be in) is when you are trying to learn some complicated card trick, you are three phases into it, and your fingers are locked around the cards like some wire puzzle, and THEN your mom or wife shouts, "Dinner! Now!"
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Postby Terry » 03/03/03 09:09 AM

The worst is when you are trying to learn some complicated card trick, you are three phases into it, and your fingers are locked around the cards like some wire puzzle, and THEN your mom or wife shouts, "Dinner! Now!"
Two scenerios:

1. Go to the table with your hands in position around cards, take your seat, bend at the waste and eat from the plate using only your mouth. Finish card trick and proceed to eat with utensils.

2. Go to the table with your hands in position around cards, take your seat, proceed to eat with utensils held by your feet and finish card trick.

Granted, this will improve your card handling, but you will probably be eating outside with the dog from that point on. :D :D
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Postby Leonard Hevia » 03/03/03 07:33 PM

I agree with you Mr. Kendall. I just left that Overlap Card feke inside the magazine still siliconed to the page. No doubt the redoubtable Mr. Jay will continue to invent clever uses for this gaff. I'm waiting for the issue where he explains how to slyly switch it out when the spectator asks to examine "those cards/card?" And YES they do Mr. Jay. Ah....but that would require more work than just plain ol noodling with that card.

Why do I still buy Magic? I guess it's because I like to read Mike Close's reviews--and that last part of Mr. Jay's column--"Expert Talk."

One more thing. I have an opinion on personalizing playing cards with my name on them. Nuts! Fine if you are a stage persona scaling them into the audience as souvenirs--in Vegas--but in formal or informal close-up situations? It does not require hard thinking to realize that if the performer went to the trouble of personalizing his own playing cards, then perhaps he also "faked" them.
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Postby Guest » 03/04/03 11:29 AM

Mike Close's column and Jim Steinmeyer's "Conjuring" are, to me, absolute jewels, and probably the main reason I keep reading Magic.

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Postby Guest » 03/05/03 09:14 AM

The David Kaye and Steinmeyer columns do it for me. If there was some manip stuff in Magic or Genii, I'd be a happy guy.

Since most profiles of magicians who are alive are quite fluffy, I'd like to see them kept short. Especially since most seem to be written by friends or fans of those profiled.

The interviews in MAGIC are usually quite good too.

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Postby Pete Biro » 03/05/03 12:05 PM

Where is Senator Crandall when we need him? :confused: :D :confused:
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Postby Dave Shepherd » 03/07/03 04:10 AM

Describing Shoot Ogawa's performance of the Ninja Rings, the writer reports that Mr. Ogawa "literally destroyed" his audience.

I'm wondering, then, why Shoot is not in jail for manslaughter? :D

Ah, the misuse of "literally..."
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Postby Guest » 03/07/03 09:34 PM

I don't know if this should be posted here, but what the heck:

We had Shoot as one of our alternate lecturers at the Minnesota Magic convention last June 2002. It was a last minute change, and many people were disappointed that the originally sceduled performer wasn't able to make it, because none of us had heard of Shoot except that he was supppsed to be one of Japans top young magicians.

Most of us didn't know Shoot from Adam but we were assured that he was a hit in california and we were assured that we would like him. Boy were we pleasantly surprised! You can't find a more pleasant young man than Mr. Ogawa. Yoko and his teacher (who's name I can't prounounce so I won't bother butchering it by mispelling it), plus another calfornian who's name I can't recall were were also part of his entourage, but they weren't quite as approachable, partly because their command of the english language wasn't as perfect at Shoot's (and he was really working overtime, going way behond what was expected of him at a convention, in my opinion). Shoot also has a very disarming character that has no evidence of the 'hotshot syndrome' that some groupies get, (and I'm as guilty of it as anyone else)

Shoot's command of the english language is superior to many American citizens. The cards he uses are very different than the standard bikes that I use and I had a hard time with his colorful but vastly different feeling decks. I couldn't deal a passable second with his expensive but very colorful decks no matter how hard I tried, I only wish I bought some of his decks decks becuase tricks that rely on changing color backs look great with those brightly colored cards. Of course he had no problem with my Bikes or Bee's. Dang it!

By the end of the first, very long Friday night, all the hard core people (perhaps a 8 to 10 out of a total of about 140 registered attendees) realized what luck we got by getting Shoot Saturday afternoon and late into Saturday night kept him in the spotlight amongh the dozen or so harcores. Many people never bothered to spend any tuime at all with him. Too bad for them.

Mr. Ogawa clearly took the lead and that's saying a lot because was among a lot of heavy hitters such as Paul Cummins and Doc Eason, (both great guys who I also spent quite a few enjoyable hours with), Greg Wilson and Thom Peterson, Jerry Andrus and some of the 'big name' locals such as Tyler Erickson and Al Schneider. He had a tough crowd to follow and he did very well indeed!

I hope that someday Genii does a typical artical on Shoot, which would be a longer, more in depth article about Shoot that does him justice, as I have as much respect for him as just about any magician, living or deceased. He spent a lot of time on how he constructs his original routines including the genesis of an old idea and the process of developing it into a new effect, and though at times I saw facets of older items, everything he did had such a freshness that even though I consider myself a relatively well-read magician, I rarely have the opportunity to experience the wonder of magic and simply enjoy it, such as Shoot was able to demonstrate time after time. He would explain and even spend time working with me some things, and there were many others that he would not tip for various reasons, (some of which I simply didn't have the requisite skill for a particular move) and I respect him for that.

If anyone reading this has an opportunity to meet Shoot, even if it means a long trip or drive, believe me, it's well worth it. You can't meet a nicer guy, and once you've warmed him up, he really shines. At 3am he looks as fresh as if he just woke up. The rest of us looked like escapees from a mental institution. His lectures were very good but over the heads of 95% of the audience, but the late night sessions were by far the highlight of our convention.

When I first was introduced to him I thought he was going to be unapproachable because he is foreign and had a relatively large entourage. Of course just the opposite was true, he is and was the most approachable magician I have ever met and the hours and hours that I spent with him over the weekend were simply fantastic. He spend hours working with me on some diffucilt sleights and was very patient and and his philosophy was as refreshing as his talent.

Late one night, on a whim he did some thimble routines and cane routines that had us all but peeing in our pants. His forthrightness and honesty is very refreshing, and I can't wait to meet him again in a few years to see how his wisdom in magic construction matures even more. Most of the stuff he performed at our late night sessions were magician foolers and were very difficult, but I'm sure there were some things that an average magician could do if published and illustrated in Genii. My understanding is that Richard has a high respect for Mr. Ogawa, and I hope I've not offended Richard (who I've not met but also highly respect as a superior cardman and also a fellow pork-dodger) by mentioning the 'other' magazine.
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Postby Danny Archer » 03/12/03 05:01 PM

My two cents ... at the end of the day it's all about the magic .. and Shoot delievers ... Apollo's article covered a lot of ground and I don't think that American magicians can understand how different things are in Japan ... that said I am looking forward to seeing Shoot perform at LVMI/Coinvention ...
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Postby Guest » 03/14/03 11:03 PM

I ordered the Shoot Ninja Ring routine based on the ecstatic articles about them and Shoot in general and have seen the video demo. It seems to have the same kind of feel that Dan Fleshman's video demo of his routine has; four rings,chain link etc. but thus far, neither of these has the "magic" that Vernon's Close Up Routine on his 8 volume Video set has, wherein he simply slowly links and unlinks 3 rings, as I recall, but with marvelous magical patter that interacts with his two seated-at-the- table-with-him spectators. I had never seen the rings used, small size, as a close up item. It was (and is) intriguing, funny, good-feeling -creating. Shoot's and Fleshman' are more( first impression) razzle dazzle, usually rapid, moves (though I have read that he has some slow motion linkings). Magicians will love the newness of it; my guess is that lay audiences would choose Vernon's.
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Postby Guest » 03/20/03 07:09 AM

Originally posted by Danny Archer:
I don't think that American magicians can understand how different things are in Japan...
You are so right Danny. I've been residing in Japan for about 7 months now (after 22 years of living in America), and a majority of the magicians I've met either have not seen Mr. Ogawa perform or they have and do not think very highly of him and his Wizard's Inn Family.

The only comparison I can think of is that he is like David Blaine in regards to popularity. Lay people seemed to like David Blaine, but most magicians weren't too fond of him. It seems that magicians around the world like Shoot Ogawa, but most magicians in Japan are not too fond of him.

KC
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Postby Max Maven » 03/20/03 05:23 PM

Originally posted by KC:
I've been residing in Japan for about 7 months now (after 22 years of living in America), and a majority of the magicians I've met either have not seen Mr. Ogawa perform or they have and do not think very highly of him and his Wizard's Inn Family.

The only comparison I can think of is that he is like David Blaine in regards to popularity. Lay people seemed to like David Blaine, but most magicians weren't too fond of him. It seems that magicians around the world like Shoot Ogawa, but most magicians in Japan are not too fond of him.
I think your comparison is off. The Yanagida group ("Wizard's Inn") is estranged from most of the other Japanese magic groups, due to some complex history that has little to do with Shoot Ogawa.

Despite the over-the-top statements in the Magic profile, Shoot Ogawa does not have Blaine-level fame among the Japanese lay public or magicians.

The bottom line is that he's a good magician who is growing, and working hard at it.
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Postby Guest » 03/20/03 11:10 PM

Mr. Ogawa is not as widely known as David Blaine among magicians, but Mr. Ogawa is gaining popularity among Magicians all over the world (i.e. Magic Magazine Cover, Ninja Rings, Magic Castle appearances, Lecturing, convention appearances, this discussion about him, and future DVD releases) while magicians in Japan still don't respect him and the rest of the Wizard Inn Family.

It wasn't the best analogy or comparison, but that's all that I could think of to describe this (somewhat) confusing situation.

I was talking with a few magicians in Japan the other day, and we got to talking about the linking rings. One of the guys then brought out a set of the Gold Ninja Rings and did the routine. Another magician asked him where he got those 'Rings', and he coyly said, "the Wizard's Inn."

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Postby Glenn Farrington » 03/23/03 04:57 PM

Is it just me...or is Shoot flipping me the bird on the cover?

(Just kidding Stan) but it does look a little like it ;)
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