Richard Turner "The Cheat"

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Postby Guest » 02/02/05 12:10 AM

I just watched Richard Turner "The Cheat" on the new DVD release. This guy is incredible! His seconds and bottoms are beautiful and his riffle shuffle stacking is just... ...Scary!

RK, how about a cover story in Genii on Turner? I bet the guy's got an interesting tale to tell. I understand he's declared blind and is also a great martial artist.

Does anyone know if "The Cheat" has got anything in print on his card work? Does he perform or lecture for magicians? Please do tell!

Roberto
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Postby Guest » 02/02/05 05:48 AM

I was watching a demo for the video, and my jaw dropped when I got to the part that said "legally blind".

That's impressive.

I hate advertising.. but here's a link to the page with the demo.

http://www.ellusionist.com/order/Cheat- ... Turner.htm

David.
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Postby Guest » 02/02/05 08:43 AM

Richard performed at the Castle recently. Incredible. He's the only performer I've ever seen do a center deal demonstration where he actually dealt the cards from the center of a squared up deck.

He appears to be almost completely blind, but not quite. For example when a spectator put the deck down on the table, he could pick it up. But when a card fell to the table, he could not tell if it was face up or face down.

This was one of the most impressive displays of sleight-of-hand I have ever seen.

I didn't know anything about martial arts, but I sure wouldn't want to push hands with him.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/02/05 10:28 AM

Richard Turner is legally blind, but so is Brad Aldridge, our webmaster. He can see quite a bit! So can Richard Turner.
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Postby Guest » 02/02/05 01:02 PM

One of the more disconcerting aspects of the Turner vids is that, during any glass tabletop shot, you can clearly see that Richard is NOT looking at or focused on his hands in any way, shape or form. Gives you something to think about. Of course, he learned it the hard way.

-T
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Postby Guest » 02/02/05 05:54 PM

Are the vids/DVD instructional or just performance?
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Postby Guest » 02/02/05 07:04 PM

Antonio,
Yes, I too noticed that as well. I also noticed that he was able to flick the ash on his cigar in the ash tray with no problem so I'm thinking that he's able to see to some degree.

PapaG,
The video is not instructional however, many of the moves are shot in slow motion and underneath a glass table. I think anyone with a good working knowledge of card work should be able to learn most of the moves on the video.

I'm just wondering why don't we hear more of Richard Turner in magic circles. This guy's skill with a pack of cards is unheard of. Even Vernon states in the video that Richard is one of the best in the world!

Roberto
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/02/05 08:05 PM

Yes, he can see. "Legally blind" doesn't mean you have no sight, it means your sight is impaired to point that the law considers you "legally blind." Webmaster Brad sees well enough to read, go to movies, watch magic videos, see other magicians perform, travel, etc.
It's different with each person, of course, but it's in Richard Turner's interest to let audiences think he can't see since he bills himself as a "blind" card cheat.
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Postby Guest » 02/02/05 09:01 PM

Good point. My father was legally blind but still managed to function in a pretty much normal fashion. I believe the classification is made if your vision falls below a certain range even with the aid of corrective lenses. So how bad the person's vision really is varies with the individual.
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Postby Guest » 02/02/05 09:27 PM

Richard is legally blind but can see, at least to some extent. But the main point is that he is good -- and he entertains an audience! I've been lucky enough to see him on two or three occasions and the audience absolutely loves him -- he's fun to watch!

I don't know if he's still there, but the last time I saw him perform he was at the Amusement Park in San Antonio -- sorry I can't remember the name right now.

Sixx
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Postby Guest » 02/07/05 07:24 PM

I saw Mr. Turner at the Castle a few weeks ago and got a chance to hang out with him and a few other very well respected card guys after the show. It was a lot of fun.

As for the "legally blind" discussion, it seems that his condition is degenerative and has worsened considerably since making those videos well over 10 years ago. Jason England commented that when he met Mr. Tuner about 5 years ago his sight was better then and is much worse now.

Anyway, I'd hate for anyone to get the idea that this guy is somehow exaggerating his degre of blindness to better market his act. From what I witnessed, that couldn't be further from the truth. Aside from being an absolutly incredible handler of cards, Mr. Turner was very kind and helpful to all of us.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/07/05 07:55 PM

I don't want anyone to get the impression from my previous post that I think Turner is attempting to deceive his friends into thinking he can see less than he actually can.
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Postby Steve Bryant » 02/07/05 09:03 PM

I just watched (much of) the video for the first time this evening. Richard's 30-minute Magic Castle act is thrilling to watch. Stuff like this just makes you cry.
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Postby Guest » 02/08/05 12:00 AM

I can confirm that Richard Turner does not exaggerate his blindness. At the castle, he did not make any mention or other reference to it. Only gradually did it begin to dawn on me (and other people in the audience) that he was visually impaired.
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Postby Guest » 02/09/05 09:32 PM

I've watched his DVD over and over again, since recently having purchased it and I'm simply amazed at his skill with the pasteboards. I too enjoyed his Magic Castle act.

But I'm still left wondering why don't we hear more about Richard Turner in magic circles? More interestingly, at least for me, would be to know more about his earlier days in magic, who were his early influences, how does he practice, etc., etc..

Richard, how about it, a cover story on Richard Turner "The Cheat". I think this will be up there with a cover story on Steve Forte! Anyone else out there who would like to see Genii do Turner?

Roberto
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Postby Guest » 02/10/05 02:24 AM

Mr Turner is one of the very best I have seen, and I have only seen the trailer of his DVD and just sent for it.

I am told the moves are not given a name on the DVD and it is not really a teaching DVD.

Is there anywhere I can learn the moves or can you guys tell me the names of the moves so I can try and find them? Did Mr Turner ever write a book of his work?

What is that stud second called for a start?


Regards

COOPER
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Postby Steve Bryant » 02/10/05 04:39 AM

While not exactly a teaching dvd, 100s of moves are demonstrated (without names!), as if Richard were demonstrating the moves to laymen so they could avoid being cheated. You can learn from these demonstrations, it's just that it's not what you would expect, say, from an L&L teaching video. Also, although this is a dvd, the producers were very lazy and did not include a menu to get to all the moves, so you have to scan through to find what you want, as if it were a tape. All this said, it's still a wonderful resource, and a 30-minute performance in the Magic Castle close-up gallery is worth the price of the item. Turner is just awesome with a deck of cards.
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Postby Guest » 02/10/05 07:02 AM

Originally posted by Steve Bryant:
While not exactly a teaching dvd, 100s of moves are demonstrated (without names
I copied this from an ad for the product.

- 13 minute biography of amazing Richard Turner.
- 30 minute no-holds-barred riveting performance
- 1 hour/33 minute filled to the brim teaching

I was going to purchase it on the basis of the 1 1/2 hour teaching.

For those that own the product, how would you rate the teaching part?

Thanks
Phil
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Postby Ian Kendall » 02/10/05 08:21 AM

Basing my observations on the Video version (which I understand is the source of the DVD); I would not class it as a 'teaching' video, but I think I should explain more -

I believe that there is a big difference between _showing how to do something_ (teaching) and _showing how something is done_ (exposure/expose). The Cheat, along with other similar titles from Forte, Joseph, Lovell et al, shows how the move is done. This is probably from it's original guise as a protection video, and not produced as a How-To lesson on cheating.

That is not to say that it is impossible to learn from it. Given a bit of nouse and a rewind button most people would be able to figure out what is going on after a while. But as far as planned, detailed instruction goes, this is not it.

However, it is fascinating to watch in fifteen to twenty minute chunks, and I understand the extras are phenomenal.

Take care, Ian
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Postby Guest » 02/10/05 09:05 AM

I think that I can be just as good (if only I could live another 4 generations). ;) ;)
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Postby Guest » 02/10/05 10:49 AM

Originally posted by COOPER:
Mr Turner is one of the very best I have seen, and I have only seen the trailer of his DVD and just sent for it.

I am told the moves are not given a name on the DVD and it is not really a teaching DVD.

Is there anywhere I can learn the moves or can you guys tell me the names of the moves so I can try and find them? Did Mr Turner ever write a book of his work?

What is that stud second called for a start?


Regards

COOPER
This is going to sound flip and "old-hat", but I swear to you it's the truth:

Read Erdnase.

After that, spend some time with the Vernon Inner Secrets books.

-Tony
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Postby Guest » 02/10/05 07:18 PM

Gentlemen,

I have had several minutes of delight reading your comments and questions regarding my husband work and his visual impairment.

As his wife of 13 years, I think that I can clear up some of the mystery regarding his loss of sight.

Rick began loosing his sight at the age of nine due to a childhood illness. This condition is degenerative and has made some dramatic changes over the last decade. However, since Rick does not talk about it, nor does he ever mention it anywhere or anytime when he is performing, most people don't know about it. He relies on his skill with his cards to speak for his abilities. When someone is slated to introduce him as a performer or speaker, they are instructed not to "tag" him as being blind. This is true at the Magic Castle also.

That said, Rick's sight is to the point that he cannot see the cards, he does not drive (he has never been able to drive), he does not watch TV or movies, he cannot see who is in the audience, and for all of those magicians who keep trying to get him to watch you moves--he can't see what you're doing. However, he can watch your moves, akward vs smooth, and hear the sound of your cards, snap vs quiet, and by the way you move your hands, natural vs unnatural,and get a very good idea of your technique and skill level.

As for his early training--he's got some great stories to tell--Vernon, Marlo, Jennings, Skinner, Slydini, Miller, Georgio, Robinson--he's known and worked with them all!

Kim Turner
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/10/05 07:49 PM

Kim, welcome to the Forum and many thanks for the update. Please give our best wishes to Richard!
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Postby Guest » 02/11/05 12:44 AM

WOW!!! Mrs. Turner, thank you for sharing that information about your husband. I must say that I have seen many card magic/gambling videos and I can honestly say that in my opinion Richard Turner is by far the most impressive with a deck of cards (Ricky Jay and Steve Forte coming in at a very close 2nd).

I would like to learn more about Richard Turner and his work with cards and I'm sure many other magicians would as well. Can you tell us, has Mr. Turner considered putting his life's work in print? And can you enlighten us with some of those stories with Marlo, Vernon, Jennings, etc.?

Many thanks,
Roberto
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Postby Guest » 02/13/05 07:20 PM

MRS Turner

Thank so very much for your help. I have now got the DVD. Your guy is not one of best I have seen, he is the best.

Cooper
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Postby Guest » 02/13/05 11:43 PM

To all who may be interested, my name is Doc and I am a real cheat and I would like to say that I may be tooting my own horn a bit but I'm good, really good and I out of all people really am capable of critiquing Mr. Richard Turner's work (video/DVD) and for the record he's not the best that I've seen, I give that to Steve Forte but he is better than me and I have to tip my hat off to him as a new living legend in my book. I'm just sorry I didn't get his video years ago in order to study when I was really practicing but...

I've finally got and looked at the Richard Turner's video and the one at that site and for the record Richard Turner is absolutely INCREDIBLE. Regarding Richard's Second Deal...now that's second dealing to the highest level. The only way it could have been better is if his thumb melted through the top card and took it besides that the only way it could be spotted at its worst angle was in slow motion now how stong is that?

Why is it that these magicians that I've met throughout the years never mentioned this guy or video to me? This guy to me rates right along with Steve Forte if not better especially being that he's considered now blind. This gentleman would have been one of my gambling idols if I had known of him years ago.

His middle deal is absolutely perfect especially his hand grip and his mucking ability is that of Steve Forte. I see why some of the people to whom I've met excelled at certain things, that is because of knowing and studying Richard Turner's stuff. I would have been way better than I am today with the studying of his video if I had only known how the real stuff really looked when I was practicing a lot.

Richard's handling is not like that of a magician even though I see him do magic stuff; he's a gambler and does both very well and rightfully deserves the comments given to him by Dai Vernon of his card skills ability.

Just learning about Richard Turner at this here site is worth its weight in gold. To all interested in gambling Richard Turner's video/dvd is a must have like Steve Forte's GPS to have on your bookshelf. I will be practicing from his video as soon as I get it.

Richard Turner where ever you are YOU HAVE MY HIGHEST RESPECT and Mrs. Turner it's an honor speaking to the wife of a living legend.


Your New Friend and Wanna-Be-Student

Docholiday aka Doc
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Postby Guest » 02/14/05 03:22 PM

Originally posted by Pete McCabe:
I can confirm that Richard Turner does not exaggerate his blindness. At the castle, he did not make any mention or other reference to it. Only gradually did it begin to dawn on me (and other people in the audience) that he was visually impaired.
Rene Lavand is the same way, he doesn't advertise himself as the one-armed magician, just comes out and starts doing magic with the cards in his good hand, and the other hand tucked in his pocket.
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Postby Guest » 02/26/05 04:40 PM

My husband would like to thank you all for the kind comments you have made regarding his work.
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Postby Guest » 02/27/05 07:28 AM

I must add my comments regarding Mr. Turner. The only time I ever saw Mr. Turner was on TV in the late 70's or early 80's. I believe the show was "That's Incredible". Although I can only remember parts of the show, I clearly remember watching him practice his second deals in front of a mirror. The mirror was just on the other side of his close-up mat. He placed his hands very close to the mirror and leaned in to see his second deals. On the show he performed seconds and bottoms that were also shot from below on a glass table. He was icredible then and still is!
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Postby Guest » 02/27/05 01:16 PM

Mr Turner appeared on the Paul Daniels Show, in the UK, in the early 80s. Such was the audience's response (thousands of letters and calls) that he was invited back several weeks later.

I remember his routine brought the cards back into new deck order for the climax, but somehow one card got out of sequence. The woman asked to assist from the audience pointed this out, which I found very churlish. It's the only time I've ever felt like slapping a spectator for being so crass. I could have understood it if she'd seen me do the same routine and get 51 cards wrong :)

Mr Turner came across as a real gentleman with the feather touch of the master that he is.

An educational and truly inspirational display of a man in tune with his art. Mere words can't do him justice.
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Postby Guest » 03/08/05 08:21 PM

I bought the Turner video tapes when they first came out ($100 bucks back then?) The tapes show he is truly an incredible technician. I have never seen him perform live however. The tapes do not show him as an incredible performer, or an incredible teacher. I hope I have an opportunity to see him lecture or perform sometime. He has certainly gotten good reviews here.
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Postby Steve Bryant » 03/09/05 07:05 AM

The dvd (perhaps not the tapes?) shows Mr. Turner doing a 30-minute show for a live audience at the Magic Castle's Close-up Gallery. For me this certainly showed him as a wonderful performer. Excellent lines, good laughs, and oh those card skills!
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Postby Guest » 03/09/05 09:43 AM

Although I too have Mr Turner's video, I am considering purchasing the DV,D as it boasts a bio.

Can anyone who already has the DVD please tell me if Mr Turner talks about his influences and thoughts on general card handling? I would find that to be of great interest.

Hopefuly Mr Turner will someday have his technique/practice philosophy committed to print. Not the sleights, but his whole perspective on learning and performing with cards.

Thanks!
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Postby Guest » 03/09/05 07:02 PM

Nice that the DVD's include a performance. I'd love to see him write on practice. It's apparent he has done plenty. Having spent a lot of time in the world of classical music where the role of teacher is well defined, it is sad that each of us must learn so much by trial and error. Just two examples of how to learn something come to my mind, Darwin Ortiz teaching basic blackjack strategy in "D.O. on Casino Gambling" and Tamariz teaching how to memorize his stack in Mnemonica.
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Postby Guest » 03/15/05 08:20 AM

I juts recieved the Richard turner dvd and it is incredible.

He is VERY skilled with cards.His push-off second deal is the best.

The biography was a treat which is something i wish could be on all dvd's. :)

His performance at the magic castle was great and was a delight to see him in action.
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Postby Guest » 03/16/05 07:25 PM

For everyone that missed Richard's performance when he was at the Magic Castle last time, he is intending to go again the week of June 13-19, 2005. He will be performing early close-up.

If you do attend, be sure to introduce yourselves as Rick very much enjoys talking "shop" with others in the magic and card world.

If you can't make the Castle or live out of the area or country, Richard will try to respond to emails when time permits. He can be reached at showdown.creations@sbcglobal.net

Kim
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Postby Guest » 02/05/07 09:20 AM

I know this thread is a few months old but here we go,

I just saw Richard Turner lecture last night in Montreal and all I can say is he's incredible! His false deals technique is flawless and what fooled me the most (along with everybody who was present) is his ability to control the cards! He kept the secret on this one and that's what's driving me nuts... Borrowed deck, no crimp (apparently, as it was handled and scrutinized by some of the best cardmen present) and yet he has an uncanny ability to control a few selected cards , without the least bit of dirty work (well...you know...)! Richard Turner is also a great and generous human beeing who spent waaaay too long answering our questions before and after the lecture.

Needless to say,
he just got a new fan,
S.
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Postby Bill Wells » 02/05/07 02:46 PM

Since this 2 year old thread has been reopened ...

I will hasten to add that those who haven't seen Richard Turner can do so by attending the upcoming World Magic Seminar in Las Vegas (Feb. 18 - 21) where Richard will both be lecturing on February 18 and performing in the Close Up Show on February 21.

Bill
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Postby Guest » 02/07/07 08:11 PM

Since my earlier postings I have purchased Richard Turner's new series of 4 DVD's AND had the good fortune of seeing him perform live in San Antonio. A tradeshow I was working threw a night before party on the show floor for exhibitors. I just went in to make sure my sound was set up for the next day and there was Richard at a table, entertaining. Well, stopping the first spectator is usually one of the tougher things to do at a tradeshow, but Richard had no trouble. That is because I stayed and watched him the entire party! First, let me say the tapes have a lifetime of material to learn. Most is gambling related as that is Richard's specialty. However, there are also powerful and very subtle tools for the card magician. His key card will fool all but the most knowledgeable cardmen. Considering the huge amount of information and instruction, they are a BARGAIN! That said, he is even better LIVE. Buy his DVD's, and see him any time you have the chance.

Mark
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