another interesting video from japan

Addresses new and interesting links to other sites (not listed on the Genii website) that merit attention.

Postby Roger M. » 02/08/08 11:37 AM

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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 02/08/08 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Blair M.:
This one has me a bit mystified:...
He's wearing a wig.
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Postby Philemon » 02/08/08 12:45 PM

It's a very large version of Tenyo's old "Wandering Hole" trick.
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Postby John M. Dale » 02/08/08 02:06 PM

Who here thinks this can be done without the edits and the wide eyed stoo... ,er, spectator? (Is that Criss Angel under that wig? :p )

I also suspect there's a significant difference between the "Wandering Hole" method and the this effect. Unless the performer has gone thru the "Buzz saw" for real. :eek:

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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Postby Roger M. » 02/08/08 02:19 PM

Thanks Jon, I knew it had to be something :)
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Postby Mark Paulson » 02/09/08 03:30 PM

I've lived in Japan, and I don't think she was a stooge. She may have seen the method he was using, but I still think she was fooled. The "talent" they use on Japanese TV shows aren't always the brightest bulbs.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 02/09/08 04:40 PM

Originally posted by Mark Paulson:
I've lived in Japan, and I don't think she was... the brightest bulbs.
Probably amazed by the wig - but certainly admiring the table.
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Postby David Alexander » 02/09/08 04:41 PM

Remember the girl that Angel pulled apart?

This is her brother.

He's real, his legs are stooged. ;)
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/09/08 05:30 PM

This has already been discussed in some other thread: it's Hiro Sakai performing in his TV personality as Dr. Leon.

No edits, no stooges.
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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 02/09/08 05:37 PM

Originally posted by Blair M.:
This one has me a bit mystified:
http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=514 ... 51001&f=fs
To me it looks so obviously fake....you guys here can't be serious about this effect! I find it an insult to magic. Can I tell here how this is obviously done? If not, you can check alt.magic. My speculations of course....as usual.

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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 02/09/08 05:38 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
This has already been discussed in some other thread: it's Hiro Sakai performing in his TV personality as Dr. Leon.

No edits, no stooges.
What do you mean exactly by "edits"?

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Postby Richard Perrin » 02/09/08 06:44 PM

:eek:
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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 02/09/08 06:59 PM

Just watch these crossing points

00.10

00:47

1:18 (ahh this one is a work of art! almost at the end of the white strip at 1:17, and all of a sudden, he's back to the beginning!)

1:38

Let me know if I really have to fill in the details.

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/09/08 07:00 PM

I mean that the illusion was done in one continuous shot, not little shots pieced together. It was performed as you see it.
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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 02/09/08 07:02 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
I mean that the illusion was done in one continuous shot, not little shots pieced together. It was performed as you see it.
Richard you GOT to be kidding right?

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/09/08 07:26 PM

No, I'm not kidding. I know Hiro Sakai well, and have watched the video several times. I see no reason why, with the proper funding, you couldn't build a really fancy table that would do what you see there.
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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 02/09/08 07:27 PM

Originally posted by John M. Dale:
I also suspect there's a significant difference between the "Wandering Hole" method and the this effect. Unless the performer has gone thru the "Buzz saw" for real. :eek:

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

JMD
Had never heard of the Wandering Hole, until now, but after having seen it a couple of times on video...you are obviously correct.

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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 02/09/08 07:39 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
No, I'm not kidding. I know Hiro Sakai well, and have watched the video several times. I see no reason why, with the proper funding, you couldn't build a really fancy table that would do what you see there.
Let me separate the two issues:

1. whether the actual performance on video is an edited video

2. whether one can build a table that would allow the perfomer to do the effect live.

for 1. there is no doubt that is an edited video. Beside the 1:17-1:18 idiotic editing, you can also take a look at how the size of his chest (or bust) diminishes starting from 00:48.

for 2: I have no clue, it might be possible, but certainly this is not what Sakai used.

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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 02/09/08 07:50 PM

Carlo,

Break it down - what do you feel was presented due to any sort of omission due to editing or video trickery?

Let's presume folks here are not going to be all upset if you want to discuss a table with an entrance, a slidy center roller with cutout section and and exit panel - or a shirt with a front plate.

Okay--- where's the problem (aside from that wig ;) )

-J
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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 02/09/08 08:13 PM

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
Carlo,

Break it down - what do you feel was presented due to any sort of omission due to editing or video trickery?

Let's presume folks here are not going to be all upset if you want to discuss a table with an entrance, a slidy center roller with cutout section and and exit panel - or a shirt with a front plate.

Okay--- where's the problem (aside from that wig ;) )

-J
I do not wnat to waste my time writing a post only to see it erased. I need to know if we can talk about it or not beforehand. Still thinking you guys are just joking around here...

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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 02/09/08 09:31 PM

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
a table with an entrance, a slidy center roller with cutout section
-J
Slidy roller of course! There had to be a roller! Much better than what I had quickly envisioned. The roller thing though would make it even more difficult to conceive an "entrance" (or an exit).

Much easier to fake the entrance with the fake bust, stop the filming, remove the bust, get in the cutout, resume filming slide along, stop the filming, get out of the table, resume filming and finish. Everything here is under the sun, nothing like Hooker...

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Postby Chris Aguilar » 02/09/08 09:40 PM

Originally posted by Carlo Morpurgo:
Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
[qb] a table with an entrance, a slidy center roller with cutout section
-J
Slidy roller of course! There had to be a roller! Much better than what I had quickly envisioned. The roller thing though would make it even more difficult to conceive an "entrance" (or an exit).
No it wouldn't. Simple hinged panels (perhaps spring loaded to return after he passed through) would do the trick. The back of his jacket conveniently covers that action.
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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 02/10/08 05:39 AM

Originally posted by Chris Aguilar:
No it wouldn't. Simple hinged panels (perhaps spring loaded to return after he passed through) would do the trick. The back of his jacket conveniently covers that action.
By "simple hinged panels" you mean a saloon-type door? Sorry. There's no way this solution is what you see in the video. Any entrance or exit however will not allow for roller supports on either front or back side, if there is material with a cutout which unrolls on the back side and rolls back in on the front side.

It's not so much the back of the jacket that is the problem, but the front, Again, it is so painfully obvious that he has a fake bust, and that he conveniently edits the video when he cannot move it forward any longer.

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Postby John M. Dale » 02/10/08 09:15 PM

Ok, Richard, I have no problem with being wrong if I am (it wouldn't be the first time.) But when the good Doctor "penetrates" the table at the beginning, the stiff shirt-front and solid straight line at the table surface looks nothing like his wrinkled shirt-front (through which you can see the contours of his chest) and the "puckered" look at the table surface when he takes his coat just before he comes out of the table.

No offense intended, but it seems apparent to me that something was removed from his shirt-front at some point which makes your "no edits no stooges" comment hard for me to believe.

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/10/08 10:13 PM

I've watched the video again (somewhat more clear-eyed as jetlag starts to wear off) and I can see that what has been said about the front of the shirt is correct: there is definitely a chest shell of some sort at the beginning that vanishes after he's a little bit into the table, so definitely an edit where that bit was removed.

This doesn't mean the spectator was necessarily a stooge--it's easy enough to ask a person to leave the room for a moment (as if there's technical trouble) then have her return when he's reset into the new position (or whatever) and continue from there.
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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 02/11/08 05:01 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
This doesn't mean the spectator was necessarily a stooge--it's easy enough to ask a person to leave the room for a moment (as if there's technical trouble) then have her return when he's reset into the new position (or whatever) and continue from there.
If that was the case, I am sure you can think of much better names for the girl in the show....

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Postby Mark Paulson » 02/11/08 11:04 PM

Seriously, after having watched countless hours of Japanese variety shows on tv, I firmly believe that Dr. Leon could have removed something from his shirt right in front of that girl and she'd be none the wiser.

Those "So-desu-ne" girls will believe anything you tell them. She was no stooge, at least not in the sense that many people may think.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 02/12/08 05:10 AM

Is that Japanese for "yes man"?
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 02/12/08 07:26 AM

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
Is that Japanese for "yes man"?
Not too far off, it seems...

And from here:

Another deceptive term is So desu ne, which literally means, Yes, thats right or That is so. In a culture where harmony is praised and confrontation something to be avoided, you will often hear people saying So desu ne in response to things they completely disagree with (although tone and body language will often tell you just how much - how little - they are in agreement). Doing a literal translation of that could cause some confusion, to say the least!
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