johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

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johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 21st, 2004, 1:09 am


Daniel
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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Daniel » August 21st, 2004, 5:10 am

I hate to say it, but I think Johnny Ace Palmer is one of the most overrated magicians there is.
Specially his close-up magic. His techqiue could use alot of improvement, and so could his timing/misderection.

Daniel

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 21st, 2004, 6:11 am

I have seen Johnny on several videos and most of his work is excellent. Timing and Misdirection is very hard to put into a video.

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 21st, 2004, 6:55 am

Johnny's work in competitions and in his convention lectures is outstanding, and he has the world-class trophies to prove it....

I don't know any professional who works harder to perfect his work, and he does succeed.

opie

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 21st, 2004, 7:44 am

peep peep peep peep peep peep peep peep .....
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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Daniel » August 21st, 2004, 7:52 am

I know his magic is respected by alot of magicians. But I also know alot of people who was very dissapointed (sp) with his videos he put out some years ago. I was certainly one of them.
Compare his close-up magic with the likes of John Carney, Mike Skinner, Bill Malone, David Williamson, Chad Long, Michael Close etc etc, he IMO is far behind.

Just my opinion.
Daniel

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 21st, 2004, 9:20 am

What exactly was disappointing about Johnny Ace's videos?

For anyone who wants to know the pure genius of quality magic, Johnny Ace Palmer is a great start. Keep in mind how impressed you were when you learned your very first trick! Also keep in mind ALL THE GOOD TRICKS that you no long perform because you think they're old or stupid!

I consider any magician making a living by performing magic a good magician!


J.Mirage

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 21st, 2004, 10:17 am

First time I saw him on a video he did an amazing Cups & Balls routine and produced several tiny live chicken as final. His routine was flawless a magical. I think that video was captured at Magic Castle.

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Tabman » August 21st, 2004, 10:52 am

JAP was one of the magicians I booked at The Music City Conclave in 1990. I had seen him at The Desert Magic Seminar and was impressed with him as a performer and a person. Because the numbers were off at the Conclave (and I was doing it mistakenly on the come)it took me several months to get everyone paid (which I did). Most of the lecturers were very kind and worked with me on this. Pete Biro refused to take any pay, Geno Munari insisted that I didn't owe him a thing (I paid Geno anyway), Max Maven gave me plenty of time to get his dough to him and felt so sorry for me he gave me a Toshiba laptop computer, Jim Sisti and Richard Hatch were also very kind and have become good friends however Johnny Ace Palmer called and threatened to have me put in jail!!! Pretty funny when you think about it.

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Daniel » August 21st, 2004, 11:09 am

Originally posted by Jmirage:
I consider any magician making a living by performing magic a good magician!
J.Mirage
I think your making a big mistake asuming a magician is good, just because, hes making a living by performing magic. All that proves is that hes a good seller. Nothing more.

Daniel

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Jeff Eline » August 21st, 2004, 11:41 am

Video is such a poor medium to judge a performers true ability. There are a number of performers I've seen on video and they didn't impress me at all. Then I saw them live and changed my mind completely.

Keep an open mind and don't use video as your only criteria.

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 21st, 2004, 1:03 pm

Magic-Daniel, you speak like somebody who has been burned by a product and everything else that the manufacturer puts out after that provokes anger and bile.

Johnny was my mentor for ten years. I went to his restaurant gigs frequently for seven of those years, and every week for the last three. I have seen his FISM-award-winning show a couple hundred times.

Johnny's timing and misdirection are still beyond me, even though I have made my full-time living as a magician for 15 years. He has performed restaurant magic for 20+ years on a consistent basis, often three and four restaurants a week, and the neural connections in his hands are amazing. His knowledge of what happens in the spectators' minds is stunning. He can anticipate reactions like no one else I know. And he has developed a disarmingly polite character that seems like just a supernice guy, but is actually deviously designed to put people at ease so he can slay them en masse like a serial killer.

The problem is that Johnny didn't put a whole lot of thought into his videotapes; he simply transferred his lecture onto tape. And since he pretty much turned his back on the magic world 15 years ago, after he attained the pinnacle and won that rarest of awards--second American to win FISM Gran Prix, first closeup magician to win it, too--and discovered that wallowing in the magic world was going to drive him into the poorhouse, he has turned his attention to making a living at magic. It's amazing how few magicians really make a decent living, and he was determined to make a good living.

As a result, he didn't understand that the easy tricks on his videotape should be segregated on a separate tape, and that the knucklebusting and award-winning stuff should be segregated on other tapes. He didn't talk it over with me beforehand, or anyone, for that matter. They just set up a camera and shot it in a day, and he went home to his two girls and wife by evening. He was determined to shoot it in a day so he could get back to his family.

Although there are tricks in there that you will not like, I defy you to not find numerous gems on each tape. I went back to the tapes last week to study Johnny's Transpo, which is a card transposition that kills.

Johnny won't defend himself because he's too busy working--all the time! When he performs closeup for corporations, he quotes $2,000 for his 20-minute world-championship show--and he gets it. There are echoes of Johnny's act in my closeup show, and even my stage show, all the time.

Johnny has won first place at IBM, FISM, in Florida, and at numerous other contests throughout the years. What were you doing in those years? To attack Johnny as you have by saying that he's a bad magician is like a blind man looking at Catherine Z.-Jones and saying she's ugly. It tells you more about the blind man than about Ms. Zeta-Jones.

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Daniel » August 21st, 2004, 1:37 pm

David:

The stage/stand-up/parlour magic I have seen him perform, have been worldclass. Simply topnotch.
But his close-up magic, I simply dont think is good. Not for a magician, who gets so much praise. Look at the videos at his site again, where he does close-up magic. It is anything but natural. Look at John Carney or Mike Skinner, and see how it really should look like. Im not just talking about techqiue, but as I said before timing/misderection. I know hes very respected for just that, but I just cant see it, when he does close-up magic. Take a look, when he performs a simple double lift. Anything but natural, and no misderection. I dont like it.

But listen, whether I think hes good or bad, shouldnt matter. Like you said. He is doing very well performing for a living. And has lots of repect all around the world. Hes very succesfull, thats what matters.

Peace,
Daniel

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Daniel » August 21st, 2004, 1:46 pm

BTW, I dont care how many titles a magicians has won, or how succesful he is performing for laypeople.
I know many magicians who are performing fulltime, that couldnt fool a corpse. And many amatuer magicians, who (at least IMO) are as good as anybody out there.


Daniel

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 21st, 2004, 3:34 pm

IMO This whole discussion is just plain SAD and has no merit on this or any other forum!

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 21st, 2004, 5:27 pm

Why is a discussion about the merits of a magician or his videotapes "sad" and undeserving of discussion?
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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Bill Duncan » August 21st, 2004, 5:48 pm

I consider any magician making a living by performing magic a good magician!
Seems like a pretty low standard by which to judge quality to me. Would you consider someone a great painter because they sell a lot of "sofa sized paintings" out of their van at the fair? Gaugain sold two paintings in his life. His friend Vincent sold one.

I've never seen Mr. Palmer save for the "street magic" special on the Travel Channel. I wasn't overly impressed with what he did, but the ladies for whom he performed certainly seemed to be having fun to to have been fooled and that is a measure of a magicians quality with which I cannot argue.

I wonder, if I were performing for tv cameras if I would do the stuff I don't do around other magicians or if I'd stick with stuff that I knew had mass appeal... like, oh, I don't know CARDTOON?

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Tabman » August 21st, 2004, 6:02 pm

Bill Duncan adds:
I've never seen Mr. Palmer save for the "street magic" special on the Travel Channel. I wasn't overly impressed with what he did but...
Whew!!! I thought you were talking about Bill Palmer there for a second!!!

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 22nd, 2004, 12:15 am

Daniel:

Who are you, anyway? What's your name?

Guest

Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 22nd, 2004, 1:40 am

peep peep peep peep peep peep peep peep .....
Ha! Ha! Ha!

Critics always draw heat, constructive or not. I love a good critic who will honestly answer the W's. I love a good (in-depth) explanation of why/why not something is dynamite/dud regardless of my personal tastes. Thorough explanations are more conducive to a productive environment.

Why would one magician not like another?

...Just a question...

Patrick

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 22nd, 2004, 1:09 pm

i smell envy :) a very popular personal status in the tiny nordic countries...

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 23rd, 2004, 10:22 am

Is it common practice on this forum to delete messages from people because they have an opinion. I remember reading a post on the 21st that has been deleted. It was posted after Chicago Magic thought that the discussion was "sad". Richard Kaufman replied with,

"Why is a discussion about the merits of a magician or his videotapes "sad" and undeserving of discussion? "

Then someone else replied to the effect that, if richard didn't know why it was sad, then it "spoke volumes" about his person.

Why are certain posts removed while others are left untouched. I think this "speaks volumes" about this forum.

Thanks

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » August 23rd, 2004, 11:18 am

Originally posted by David Groves:
Johnny has won first place at IBM, FISM, in Florida, and at numerous other contests throughout the years. What were you doing in those years? To attack Johnny as you have by saying that he's a bad magician is like a blind man looking at Catherine Z.-Jones and saying she's ugly. It tells you more about the blind man than about Ms. Zeta-Jones.
I understand your point, but that's a very poor analogy. In one instance, you can see whether he's a bad magician or not by just watching the performance. In the other, the blind man has no way to judge how beautiful or not she is.

A more correct analogy would be that saying JAP is a bad magician when you haven't won all those awards is like a man (blind or not) saying CZJ is ugly when he's not CZJ.

And that's just silly.

<sarcasm> BTW, I think that Ebert & Roeper should be taken off the air. They're not qualified to critique movies b/c neither of them have ever starred in an award winning movie. What do they know? </sarcasm>

-Jim

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Tabman » August 23rd, 2004, 11:57 am

novascotia asks:
Why are certain posts removed while others are left untouched. I think this "speaks volumes" about this forum. Thanks
The original poster of any message on this forum can delete their own messages. Thats probably what happened. I doubt if anyone on the "inside" deleted it, probably just the original poster. For example, only you can delete your message that I quoted above but only I can delete this one!!! Try it!!

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Terry » August 24th, 2004, 11:23 am

My personal opinion is that Johnny Ace is an entertaining magician. Having seen him perform his FISM act several times, and enjoying it every time, I find it has a naturally smooth flow that very few "magicians" can match.

Since he earns his living performing for lay audiences and not just at a magicians meeting, one could say that the real world is determining his abilities and since they ARE paying, that is all that matters.

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 24th, 2004, 1:41 pm

Originally posted by -=tabman:
JAP was one of the magicians I booked at The Music City Conclave in 1990. I had seen him at The Desert Magic Seminar and was impressed with him as a performer and a person. Because the numbers were off at the Conclave (and I was doing it mistakenly on the come)it took me several months to get everyone paid (which I did). Most of the lecturers were very kind and worked with me on this. Pete Biro refused to take any pay, Geno Munari insisted that I didn't owe him a thing (I paid Geno anyway), Max Maven gave me plenty of time to get his dough to him and felt so sorry for me he gave me a Toshiba laptop computer, Jim Sisti and Richard Hatch were also very kind and have become good friends however Johnny Ace Palmer called and threatened to have me put in jail!!! Pretty funny when you think about it.
Maybe it was Johnny's laptop that Max gave to you. :)

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Randy » August 24th, 2004, 1:55 pm

I have had the pleasure of taking many laypeople to see Johnny's award winning close up show as well as his walk-around at restaurants. For what it's worth, I believe Johnny is an absolutley fantastic magaician simply because all the laypeople where EXTREMELY entertained and all walked away with a renewed since of wonder. NONE of the laypeople even talked or cared about his "mis-direction" or "double lift". Who are we performing for anyway????

Guest

Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 24th, 2004, 2:00 pm

Johnny Ace Palmer will be at the Magic Apple in Studio City this Thursday the 26th . He will be giving a workshop / lecture and I would assume he will be performing some of his close up fism act. I will be there to make my own opinions about his magic. I would suggest that others, that have not seen him perform, check it out.

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Tabman » August 24th, 2004, 2:01 pm

Graham Nichols breaks the silence with:
Maybe it was Johnny's laptop that Max gave to you. :)
Now that is really funny. I almost fell out of my high chair when I read that!!!!!!!!! :) Thanks!!

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Ryan Matney » August 24th, 2004, 2:17 pm

Why don't we just start a thread called "The most over-rated magicians?" I nominate Jay Sankey, Simon Lovell and Bill Malone. I would nominate Randy Wakeman but I don't know if anyone rates him at all.

I don't think he is the greatest ever but I'd rather watch Johnny Ace Palmer over the above any time.
Bada-Bing! - The new e-book with Ten tricks for real world performance. Available now at http://retrorocketmagic.com/product/bada-bing-10-new-card-tricks-for-the-real-world/

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 24th, 2004, 3:47 pm

Magic, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. We can't like everyone. As with any performance art it is the variances in texture that makes it interesting.

Granted, some of that texture is eroding now that the internet offers the same material to a global market, but every performer has something to offer. Even if it is to teach the magic student never to do it in that manner.

I think it is wrong, to me, that performers should be dismantled on a forum for which they are not regular contributors. It makes the observations/arguements unbalanced, and thus unfair.

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Daniel » August 24th, 2004, 7:05 pm

I just watched his video again. Maybe I was to quick to judge him the first time I watched it...
But Its even more clear to me, that I dont think hes good...
When he is having a card selected and controlled, he is using a double undercut. From the camera angle the break is very clear. And so it must be even more clear from the spectators view. Then he is performing a double lift..First he moves the top card away, while he can get a break under the top card. Then he comes back to put the card on top of the deck again, and then double lift the card(s) as it veighted a ton. Very unatural double lift IMO...First when he moves the top card away, only to put it back on top 2 sec after...Then he do the double lift, like the cards were a ton each..
But by far the worst, is his colour change using the pass. His pass must be the worst I have ever seen, from a working performer. Absolutely horrible. He cant be fooling anyone with this pass. Specially with a colour change/vanish, where all the heat is on the deck...
Sorry, I simply cant see, why people concider him great...

Well, back to my old tapes of Michael Skinner...

Daniel

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Chris Bailey » August 24th, 2004, 7:17 pm

The problem is your judging him from his video. Johnny is a master of misdirection and his close up show is the best I've ever seen. His act is one I make the drive to LA to see every year and always bring people to see him. Other magicians that I grew up reading about in books and idolizing have on more then one occasion left me cold after seeing them live.

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Bob Coyne » August 24th, 2004, 7:32 pm

It's been several years since I saw him, but his FISM act which he performs in the close-up room at the Magic Castle is probably the best single magic act I've seen. Audiences are blown away. I had a friend just shaking his head with amazement for hours afterward the performance. It's extremely visual magic and his misdirection and timing are superb.

I haven't seen his videos or much or any of his other magic. So it's possible that when different people refer to his close-up magic they are talking about different things. His Magic Castle act is almost like stage/platform magic performed close-up. That's part of what makes it so amazing.

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 25th, 2004, 7:08 am

Originally posted by Magic-Daniel:
His pass must be the worst I have ever seen
I'd say you need to get out more ;)

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 25th, 2004, 9:50 am

I'd say you need to get out more
Why would one want to get out more only to see worse passes?

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Daniel » August 25th, 2004, 9:53 am

Doug:
I have seen worse passes. But not from someone who is making a living performing magic.

Daniel

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Gary Freed » August 25th, 2004, 4:08 pm

What's scary is that these are the clips HE chose to show himself off....... But compared to his Videotapes, these are a step up.

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Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 25th, 2004, 10:53 pm

Let's see, Johnny is working continuously as a PROFESSIONAL for Fortune 500 companies and Hollywood celebrities; he was the magician of choice for the Rose Bowl dinner function; he was one of two magicians for the "Pirates of the Carribean" party at Disneyland; and the list of high paying customers goes on and on...So from strictly a PROFESSIONal viewpoint, he's done quite well using magic as entertainment, even if some of his routines don't include a flawless S.W.E. shift with a backwards rotation and a half-pass twist.

At the Magic Castle, there's ALWAYS a line to see his show. Oftentimes he'll work an extra show just because there were people who couldn't get in to the last show. Once at the Magic Castle, I asked Shoot Ogawa, "who's your favorite close up magician?" Guess who he mentioned!

Everyone I've talked to has said that he is very generous with his time in helping out budding magicians. We all know about Johnny's competitions, but he's also mentored other magicians, including John George and Brian Ochab, who've both done very well recently in magic competitions, such as I.B.M. and S.A.M. Back in the old days, I visited a restaurant where Johnny was working. He was always very kind in answering any questions I had about doing magic for money or otherwise.

Johnny also has a real love for magic. I once asked him if he could see himself doing walk around magic twenty years from now. Without any hesitation he said, "I'll be doing magic until the day I die!" Shortly before I asked him that, he showed me a set of silver cups that used to belong to Michael Skinner. His wife bought them for Johnny for their anniversary. He even performed an excellent cups and balls routine tableside for me and my wife. I've always gone away from watching Johnny perform magic in a better mood than I was before watching him perform.

Are there better magicians than Johnny? Is he overrated? That's for you to decide. There aren't too many magicians who I would plan a vacation around; however, I have been known to have visiting family and friends attempt to shuffle their schedules so that they would have the distinct pleasure of seeing Johnny's Magic Castle shows in April and September. Now if we could just talk John Carney in to coming back to perform in the Castle, I'd be forced to take an extra vacation. :D ;)

Guest

Re: johnnyacepalmer.com - online videos

Postby Guest » August 26th, 2004, 7:08 am

Arnold Schwarznegger is an incredibly successful performer, starred in innumerable films, made millions upon millions of dollars, is incredibly popular... but would you call him a great actor?

Success and talent/ability do not go hand in hand. In most endeavors, the individual who wants to succeed MORE THAN ANYTHING is the one who succeeds, regardless of talent, ability, or training. Most people at the top of any field are there because their life's ambition was to be at the top.

Is that the case here? I dunno, but it holds true most everywhere else. --Asrah


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