Great Card Control

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Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 7th, 2005, 6:27 am

Great Card control which can be performed with the spectators attention on your hands.

It is also very nice because the selection is left protruding from the deck.

It can be found here:

www.magic-trickz.co.uk

Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 7th, 2005, 7:39 am

Originally posted by Pharaoh:
Great Card control where which can be performed with the spectators attention on your hands.

It is also very nice because the selection is left protruding from the deck.

It can be found here:

www.magic-trickz.co.uk
Is this sleight original to you? Just curious.

Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 7th, 2005, 8:54 am

Hi,

I believe it is original to me. I wanted a control which could be done despite the selection protruding from the deck and developed this control.

There are other uses and I particularly like the glimpse that it allows you to do.

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Matthew Field
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Matthew Field » December 7th, 2005, 9:22 am

Pardon my ignorance, Pharaoh, but without a movie (unless there's one I couldn't find on the site) or more detailed description this could be anything. Eleven pounds for something this nebulous -- sorry.

Matt Field

Bob Farmer
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Bob Farmer » December 7th, 2005, 1:04 pm

I have a method for this invisible control--

Have card returned to deck and allow it to protrude.

Place deck and both hands inside paper bag.

While in bag, one hand holds deck while other pulls out card and put it on top of deck.

Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 7th, 2005, 1:40 pm

Red backed deck or blue Bob?

Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 7th, 2005, 1:45 pm

Originally posted by Bob Farmer:

....Place deck and both hands inside paper bag.

While in bag, one hand holds deck while other pulls out card and put it on top of deck.
Now that sounds like a real great control, can you make it available complete with a thorough description of all fingerpositions and pictures, so it is easily understandable and put it out at a reasonable price in pdf form?

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Matthew Field
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Matthew Field » December 8th, 2005, 1:09 am

C'mon, Farmer.

That's Marlo, 1948 (notes dated 1932).

Matt Field

Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 8th, 2005, 12:13 pm

Thanks for the sarcasm folks.

Videos are great for watching time and time again. When performing for a spectator the control would only be performed the once. I am therefore a little reluctant to put a video on the web of it.

If a video was on the web of, for example Lee Asher's Losing Control, would anyone have purchased it?

I wanted a control to look a certain way when performed and couldn't find one so developed 'The Burning Control'. I particularly like it and it will be one of the main three controls that I will always use.

If you like controls then I would say it's worth taking a look at. I can't give a detailed description of where each finger goes without exposing it. I have tried to describe it to say that it appears fair and simple and the card protrudes and the spectators can look at the deck whilst it is performed. If this is something that you think that you could use then I think you would like it.

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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 8th, 2005, 12:19 pm

Originally posted by Pharaoh:
...If a video was on the web of, for example Lee Asher's Losing Control, would anyone have purchased it? ...
There was, and people did. It was funny too, a mock hostage situation. Bravo Lee!
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 8th, 2005, 1:00 pm

And what about the Asher Twist?
People did buy it BECAUSE of the demo!!!

If anything is as good as the ad, it also can be shown on a demo..if one prefers NOT to give a demo, my guess is the *sleight* (that is said to be invisible in this case) is NOT living up to the ad.
It is that simple...

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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Bill Duncan » December 8th, 2005, 1:07 pm

Pharoah,

Can you at least assure us it's not another variant of the Hofsinzer spread, Jennings Immediate Bottom Placement, Marlo Convincing, Simon Versatile Outjog, Akerman Varies Kelly, concept? I know that one.

Thanks

Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 8th, 2005, 1:25 pm

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
...the Hofsinzer spread, Jennings Immediate Bottom Placement, Marlo Convincing, Simon Versatile Outjog, Akerman Varies Kelly, concept?
What is all this????
Never heared about any of them, but I just heared about a *Great card control* that is invisible and surpasses everything that had gone before..it's real magic!!

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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Bill Duncan » December 8th, 2005, 4:37 pm

Ooops. I forget Joe Ovette's "Master Move".

Sorry Werner

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Re: Great Card Control

Postby John Wilson » December 9th, 2005, 1:06 am

Originally posted by Werner G. Seitz:
Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
[b] ...the Hofsinzer spread, Jennings Immediate Bottom Placement, Marlo Convincing, Simon Versatile Outjog, Akerman Varies Kelly, concept?
What is all this????
Never heared about any of them, but I just heared about a *Great card control* that is invisible and surpasses everything that had gone before..it's real magic!! [/b]
You never heard of any of those moves....and you are posting on this forum why??

Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 9th, 2005, 4:32 am

Uhmmm, may I suggest that it was intended as humor? Admittedly, a rare concept for ENTERTAINERS.

Adrian Kuiper
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Adrian Kuiper » December 9th, 2005, 5:17 am

Seems like this new "move" falls into either or both of two categories:

1. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is, and/or;

2. If I teach it to you, I'll have to kill you.

And he wants me to spend $$$$$ for it!?!?

Nope....

Adrian

Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 9th, 2005, 5:56 am

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
Ooops. I forget Joe Ovette's "Master Move".

Sorry Werner
Much worth!!! You did forget the Drauns control, another one I never have heared of... ;)

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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Countelmsley » December 11th, 2005, 8:07 am

I think you may be too hard on Pharaoh... perhaps it' s an "honest" mistake on his part? Just didnt do his homework... he may not be out to steal anyone, you know(bad english structure, without a doubt!)... That beeing said, I did enjoy the sarcasm very much ;) !

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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 11th, 2005, 1:30 pm

I realise the debate goes on as to whether the Convincing Control and its variants are in fact one and the same.

This however, I believe to be different as the selected card is seen protruding.

Anyway, just to add wood to the fire there is now a demo.

http://www.magic-trickz.co.uk/trick4.php

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Re: Great Card Control

Postby IanB » December 11th, 2005, 3:23 pm

Well, it looks like it's slightly unfair to say this is a complete reinvention. It mimics a standard convincing control where the card above the selection is outjogged in its place - but instead seems to use a different card for the fake outjog. As a result it looks (to me anyway) like the outjogged selection magically changes its horizontal position when the spread is lowered. Maybe it's just my dodgy eyesight.

I can't for the life of me see what advantages it offers over a standard convincing control with outjog.

But, of course, I could be missing something.

Ian

Bob Farmer
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Bob Farmer » December 11th, 2005, 4:11 pm

Pharoah, the control looks very good in the demo, but I'm not convinced many would spend what your asking for the secret. There are many versions of the Convincing Control, all available for much less money in various books and magazines.

Your version does seem similar to what I think may be a Marlo variation published by Jon Racherbaumer, but I'll have to dig through my library.

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Re: Great Card Control

Postby John Bodine » December 11th, 2005, 5:26 pm

Dan and Dave Buck have a control that also looks very similar. So much convincing going on it seems.

johnbodine

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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Ryan Matney » December 11th, 2005, 8:37 pm

Originally posted by Pharaoh:
I realise the debate goes on as to whether the Convincing Control and its variants are in fact one and the same.

This however, I believe to be different as the selected card is seen protruding.
The selected card is ostensibly outjogged in almost all versions of the convincing control, being a key feature of the sleight. Jennings, Marlo, Simon...all outjogged the card.
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 11th, 2005, 9:25 pm

That's not quite true:

Hofzinser culled the card, but did not outjog it.

Edward Victor visually isolated the card, but did not outjog it.

Jennings' first handling of the Immediate Bottom Placement did not outjog the card, either, and he preferred the version with no outjog.

Marlo does not enter the picture until after all of the above.
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Chris Aguilar » December 11th, 2005, 10:15 pm

Perhaps minor technical variations such as these would be best submitted to somethig like Magicana, the Linking Ring, MUM, etc.

For my own needs, I see little reason that this very slight variation would offer me much/anything I can't get from one of the other similar controls out there.

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Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 12th, 2005, 12:34 am

My humble comments as I earlier joked re this move..
It doesn't look that bad, but it doesn't look clean either.

As Richard Kaufman pointed out, in the Hofzinser spread pass, the card isn't outjogged.

However IMHO, there are big similarities in the shown move, and to me this is a combination of the Hofzinser Bottom Control (as done so well and expertly by f.ex. Daryl) and the Hofzinser Spread Pass.

Running through a such combination with the cards in the hands, it isn't too tough to do..
I though wonder re the strange position of the spread cards on top (in the right hand) after the deck is turned face down, as this normally doesn't look like shown on the demo..

The move is done rather nicely and smoothly, especially the left thumb -that must be rather low down behind, when the deck is displaced face to specs- makes a very smooth (an invisible) move forwards when the deck is turned face down displaying the outjogged card..

So, TBH, not bad, what might need to be done cleaner is that the *fan* shouldn't change that much when the fan is turned face down, that's why I mentioned the move wasn't *clean* enough.
*Smooth* cards might help in this..

Anyway, my compliments, not bad and neither badly done, just not clean enough for real live work, something is going on, seen with the eyes of an onlokker, but I really think that move can be usefull, when *cleaned* up some more..

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Lance Pierce
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Lance Pierce » December 12th, 2005, 4:41 pm

Chris wrote:
Perhaps minor technical variations such as these would be best submitted to somethig like Magicana, the Linking Ring, MUM, etc.

For my own needs, I see little reason that this very slight variation would offer me much/anything I can't get from one of the other similar controls out there.
Ian wrote:
It mimics a standard convincing control where the card above the selection is outjogged in its place - but instead seems to use a different card for the fake outjog. As a result it looks (to me anyway) like the outjogged selection magically changes its horizontal position when the spread is lowered. Maybe it's just my dodgy eyesight.

I can't for the life of me see what advantages it offers over a standard convincing control with outjog.

Ian
I think I can. Familial relations notwithstanding, I like the control.

The versions of the Convincing Control I'm familiar with outjog the card as the deck is lowered or immediately after. The difference with Pharoah's (from other standard outjogging versions of the Convincing Control) is that he outjogs the card before the deck is lowered, and you apparently see the same outjogged card after. If there are standard handlings for the Convincing Control that do this, I plead ignorance.

It's a small detail, to be sure, but I love small details, and I have to say, "Well done."

Cheers,


Lance
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Bill Duncan
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Bill Duncan » December 12th, 2005, 5:20 pm

It looks pretty good, but it seems indistiguishable from Frank Simon's version of the Marlo/Jennings control.

There's a very nice tip in Card Collage which will help you correct the injogged card at the back of the spread problem.

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Pete Biro
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Pete Biro » December 12th, 2005, 5:25 pm

I kinda like it... now to find a smooth deck to try it out.
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Ryan Matney » December 12th, 2005, 6:19 pm

I don't think it's as bad as Werner does. I see no reason it wouldn't work in real performance as is.

What I meant earlier is that it wouldn't be the first convincing type control to outjog a card. I realize this version outjogs the card before the hands are raised.

I'd personally like to have a few tricks included in the booklet as well as the control.
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 13th, 2005, 12:04 pm

Originally posted by Ryan Matney:
I don't think it's as bad as Werner does. I see no reason it wouldn't work in real performance as is.
Let me explain why I'm a bit in doubt re how practical this handling is.

I simply have a hunch, an onlooker will notice the spread does move during the simple action of turning it from a vertical position to a horizontal one, and it is VERY hard to avoid this, and so, for a spec 'something' is going on.

The 'other' card has to be lined up in line with the one displayed and already pushed up a bit for the 'switch'.

I must however admit, the more I se the demo, the more I like it, my main concern is to an onlooker it might not be clean, something is going on, a move, whatever, it's not exactly 'just' a spread with an upwards outjogged card that is turned from vertical to horisontal, but again, well done as a demo for the fellow magis out there!

Also the card can only get controlled directly to the bottom, which of course isn't a problem as long as it is under control..

Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 13th, 2005, 12:18 pm

One more thing re *cleanness*..
Compare this control with the Hofzinser Spread control, the way Daryl does it!
There is NO move..it is so convincing!

I just saw today a vid -I once got in private- from a swedish guy (John Houdi, now a long time pro) where he did use the Hofzinser Spread control/Daryl style, and it actually, even if I know it and I did know when he was doing it, FOOLED me..because there was no move at all..a very convincing display of the selected card..that's what I miss in the control in question, it isn't as clean as the one I just talked about, nevertheless somebody might get it to work the 'clean' way..ppl like Daryl most certainly, but we other mortals?

No doubt though, I'm far too critical re striving for 'the absence of moves' :(

Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 13th, 2005, 3:54 pm

I checked earlier today. This looks very much

like the Ernest Earick version.Those that have

book, look it up ........Mike Walsh

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Re: Great Card Control

Postby IanB » December 14th, 2005, 12:39 am

Originally posted by Lance Pierce:
The difference with Pharoah's (from other standard outjogging versions of the Convincing Control) is that he outjogs the card before the deck is lowered, and you apparently see the same outjogged card after.
By golly, you're right Lance - I knew I was missing something.

Still don't like the visible displacement of the outjogged card when you see the lowered spread - but maybe that's fixable.

Ian

Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 14th, 2005, 10:44 am

Thanks to those that do like the control.

I would say that in performance I spread the remainder of the deck after its return to the horizontal whilst commenting, for example, that the spectators are free to choose a different card. The position of the card is not therefore an issue. Video demos are good for a guide but I do strongly feel that this is a great control and really is quite invisible in performance.

The instructions do cover a number of other ways of using the control.

There is also a glimpse that this control allows of the selected card which is invisible and extremely useful too. It's very deceptive.

www.magic-trickz.co.uk

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Matthew Field
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Matthew Field » December 16th, 2005, 3:38 am

I'd like to congratulate Pharaoh on the fine way he handled himself here on the Forum.

Well done, Pharaoh!

Matt Field

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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 19th, 2005, 1:06 pm

Thank you very much for your comments.

I have also now updated my website to give it a nice new look. Please let me know what you think to the new design.

www.magic-trickz.co.uk

Guest

Re: Great Card Control

Postby Guest » December 20th, 2005, 2:57 pm

Originally posted by Lance Pierce:

The versions of the Convincing Control I'm familiar with outjog the card as the deck is lowered or immediately after. The difference with Pharoah's (from other standard outjogging versions of the Convincing Control) is that he outjogs the card before the deck is lowered, and you apparently see the same outjogged card after. If there are standard handlings for the Convincing Control that do this, I plead ignorance.
Earlier in this thread, John Bodine mentioned a Dan and Dave Buck control. Their control also starts with the card outjogged before the deck is lowered. It is called "The D.M.B. Spread Control" and can found on page 11 of their lecture notes, Nursery Rhymes, Vol. 3 (2003).
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Lance Pierce
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Re: Great Card Control

Postby Lance Pierce » December 21st, 2005, 6:54 am

I plead ignorance!

:)


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