Great Card Control

Addresses new and interesting links to other sites (not listed on the Genii website) that merit attention.

Postby Guest » 12/07/05 07:27 AM

Great Card control which can be performed with the spectators attention on your hands.

It is also very nice because the selection is left protruding from the deck.

It can be found here:

www.magic-trickz.co.uk
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/07/05 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Pharaoh:
Great Card control where which can be performed with the spectators attention on your hands.

It is also very nice because the selection is left protruding from the deck.

It can be found here:

www.magic-trickz.co.uk
Is this sleight original to you? Just curious.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/07/05 09:54 AM

Hi,

I believe it is original to me. I wanted a control which could be done despite the selection protruding from the deck and developed this control.

There are other uses and I particularly like the glimpse that it allows you to do.
Guest
 

Postby Matthew Field » 12/07/05 10:22 AM

Pardon my ignorance, Pharaoh, but without a movie (unless there's one I couldn't find on the site) or more detailed description this could be anything. Eleven pounds for something this nebulous -- sorry.

Matt Field
User avatar
Matthew Field
 
Posts: 2425
Joined: 01/18/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hastings, England, UK

Postby Bob Farmer » 12/07/05 02:04 PM

I have a method for this invisible control--

Have card returned to deck and allow it to protrude.

Place deck and both hands inside paper bag.

While in bag, one hand holds deck while other pulls out card and put it on top of deck.
Bob Farmer
 
Posts: 1637
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Short card above selection.

Postby Guest » 12/07/05 02:40 PM

Red backed deck or blue Bob?
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/07/05 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Bob Farmer:

....Place deck and both hands inside paper bag.

While in bag, one hand holds deck while other pulls out card and put it on top of deck.
Now that sounds like a real great control, can you make it available complete with a thorough description of all fingerpositions and pictures, so it is easily understandable and put it out at a reasonable price in pdf form?
Guest
 

Postby Matthew Field » 12/08/05 02:09 AM

C'mon, Farmer.

That's Marlo, 1948 (notes dated 1932).

Matt Field
User avatar
Matthew Field
 
Posts: 2425
Joined: 01/18/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hastings, England, UK

Postby Guest » 12/08/05 01:13 PM

Thanks for the sarcasm folks.

Videos are great for watching time and time again. When performing for a spectator the control would only be performed the once. I am therefore a little reluctant to put a video on the web of it.

If a video was on the web of, for example Lee Asher's Losing Control, would anyone have purchased it?

I wanted a control to look a certain way when performed and couldn't find one so developed 'The Burning Control'. I particularly like it and it will be one of the main three controls that I will always use.

If you like controls then I would say it's worth taking a look at. I can't give a detailed description of where each finger goes without exposing it. I have tried to describe it to say that it appears fair and simple and the card protrudes and the spectators can look at the deck whilst it is performed. If this is something that you think that you could use then I think you would like it.
Guest
 

Postby Jonathan Townsend » 12/08/05 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Pharaoh:
...If a video was on the web of, for example Lee Asher's Losing Control, would anyone have purchased it? ...
There was, and people did. It was funny too, a mock hostage situation. Bravo Lee!
Mundus vult decipi
Jonathan Townsend
 
Posts: 6534
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Westchester, NY

Postby Guest » 12/08/05 02:00 PM

And what about the Asher Twist?
People did buy it BECAUSE of the demo!!!

If anything is as good as the ad, it also can be shown on a demo..if one prefers NOT to give a demo, my guess is the *sleight* (that is said to be invisible in this case) is NOT living up to the ad.
It is that simple...
Guest
 

Postby Bill Duncan » 12/08/05 02:07 PM

Pharoah,

Can you at least assure us it's not another variant of the Hofsinzer spread, Jennings Immediate Bottom Placement, Marlo Convincing, Simon Versatile Outjog, Akerman Varies Kelly, concept? I know that one.

Thanks
Bill Duncan
 
Posts: 1352
Joined: 03/13/08 11:33 PM

Postby Guest » 12/08/05 02:25 PM

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
...the Hofsinzer spread, Jennings Immediate Bottom Placement, Marlo Convincing, Simon Versatile Outjog, Akerman Varies Kelly, concept?
What is all this????
Never heared about any of them, but I just heared about a *Great card control* that is invisible and surpasses everything that had gone before..it's real magic!!
Guest
 

Postby Bill Duncan » 12/08/05 05:37 PM

Ooops. I forget Joe Ovette's "Master Move".

Sorry Werner
Bill Duncan
 
Posts: 1352
Joined: 03/13/08 11:33 PM

Postby John Wilson » 12/09/05 02:06 AM

Originally posted by Werner G. Seitz:
Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
[b] ...the Hofsinzer spread, Jennings Immediate Bottom Placement, Marlo Convincing, Simon Versatile Outjog, Akerman Varies Kelly, concept?
What is all this????
Never heared about any of them, but I just heared about a *Great card control* that is invisible and surpasses everything that had gone before..it's real magic!! [/b]
You never heard of any of those moves....and you are posting on this forum why??
John Wilson
 
Posts: 98
Joined: 06/23/08 07:43 PM

Postby Guest » 12/09/05 05:32 AM

Uhmmm, may I suggest that it was intended as humor? Admittedly, a rare concept for ENTERTAINERS.
Guest
 

Postby Adrian Kuiper » 12/09/05 06:17 AM

Seems like this new "move" falls into either or both of two categories:

1. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is, and/or;

2. If I teach it to you, I'll have to kill you.

And he wants me to spend $$$$$ for it!?!?

Nope....

Adrian
Adrian Kuiper
 
Posts: 299
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Port Richey,FL

Postby Guest » 12/09/05 06:56 AM

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
Ooops. I forget Joe Ovette's "Master Move".

Sorry Werner
Much worth!!! You did forget the Drauns control, another one I never have heared of... ;)
Guest
 

Postby Countelmsley » 12/11/05 09:07 AM

I think you may be too hard on Pharaoh... perhaps it' s an "honest" mistake on his part? Just didnt do his homework... he may not be out to steal anyone, you know(bad english structure, without a doubt!)... That beeing said, I did enjoy the sarcasm very much ;) !

Seb
http://www.geocities.com/larrybarnowsky/kotr1.htm
www.geocities.com/larrybarnowsky
Countelmsley
 
Posts: 56
Joined: 03/11/08 07:14 PM
Location: NY

Postby Guest » 12/11/05 02:30 PM

I realise the debate goes on as to whether the Convincing Control and its variants are in fact one and the same.

This however, I believe to be different as the selected card is seen protruding.

Anyway, just to add wood to the fire there is now a demo.

http://www.magic-trickz.co.uk/trick4.php
Guest
 

Postby IanB » 12/11/05 04:23 PM

Well, it looks like it's slightly unfair to say this is a complete reinvention. It mimics a standard convincing control where the card above the selection is outjogged in its place - but instead seems to use a different card for the fake outjog. As a result it looks (to me anyway) like the outjogged selection magically changes its horizontal position when the spread is lowered. Maybe it's just my dodgy eyesight.

I can't for the life of me see what advantages it offers over a standard convincing control with outjog.

But, of course, I could be missing something.

Ian
IanB
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 03/05/08 01:00 PM
Location: UK

Postby Bob Farmer » 12/11/05 05:11 PM

Pharoah, the control looks very good in the demo, but I'm not convinced many would spend what your asking for the secret. There are many versions of the Convincing Control, all available for much less money in various books and magazines.

Your version does seem similar to what I think may be a Marlo variation published by Jon Racherbaumer, but I'll have to dig through my library.
Bob Farmer
 
Posts: 1637
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Short card above selection.

Postby John Bodine » 12/11/05 06:26 PM

Dan and Dave Buck have a control that also looks very similar. So much convincing going on it seems.

johnbodine
John Bodine
 
Posts: 98
Joined: 07/23/08 03:50 PM

Postby Ryan Matney » 12/11/05 09:37 PM

Originally posted by Pharaoh:
I realise the debate goes on as to whether the Convincing Control and its variants are in fact one and the same.

This however, I believe to be different as the selected card is seen protruding.
The selected card is ostensibly outjogged in almost all versions of the convincing control, being a key feature of the sleight. Jennings, Marlo, Simon...all outjogged the card.
Ryan Matney
 
Posts: 729
Joined: 01/18/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hurley, Va

Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/11/05 10:25 PM

That's not quite true:

Hofzinser culled the card, but did not outjog it.

Edward Victor visually isolated the card, but did not outjog it.

Jennings' first handling of the Immediate Bottom Placement did not outjog the card, either, and he preferred the version with no outjog.

Marlo does not enter the picture until after all of the above.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 20007
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC

Postby Chris Aguilar » 12/11/05 11:15 PM

Perhaps minor technical variations such as these would be best submitted to somethig like Magicana, the Linking Ring, MUM, etc.

For my own needs, I see little reason that this very slight variation would offer me much/anything I can't get from one of the other similar controls out there.

______________________________________________________
www.conjurenation.com - 'Cards Only' Forums
Chris Aguilar
 
Posts: 1410
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Sacramento

Postby Guest » 12/12/05 01:34 AM

My humble comments as I earlier joked re this move..
It doesn't look that bad, but it doesn't look clean either.

As Richard Kaufman pointed out, in the Hofzinser spread pass, the card isn't outjogged.

However IMHO, there are big similarities in the shown move, and to me this is a combination of the Hofzinser Bottom Control (as done so well and expertly by f.ex. Daryl) and the Hofzinser Spread Pass.

Running through a such combination with the cards in the hands, it isn't too tough to do..
I though wonder re the strange position of the spread cards on top (in the right hand) after the deck is turned face down, as this normally doesn't look like shown on the demo..

The move is done rather nicely and smoothly, especially the left thumb -that must be rather low down behind, when the deck is displaced face to specs- makes a very smooth (an invisible) move forwards when the deck is turned face down displaying the outjogged card..

So, TBH, not bad, what might need to be done cleaner is that the *fan* shouldn't change that much when the fan is turned face down, that's why I mentioned the move wasn't *clean* enough.
*Smooth* cards might help in this..

Anyway, my compliments, not bad and neither badly done, just not clean enough for real live work, something is going on, seen with the eyes of an onlokker, but I really think that move can be usefull, when *cleaned* up some more..
Guest
 

Postby Lance Pierce » 12/12/05 05:41 PM

Chris wrote:
Perhaps minor technical variations such as these would be best submitted to somethig like Magicana, the Linking Ring, MUM, etc.

For my own needs, I see little reason that this very slight variation would offer me much/anything I can't get from one of the other similar controls out there.
Ian wrote:
It mimics a standard convincing control where the card above the selection is outjogged in its place - but instead seems to use a different card for the fake outjog. As a result it looks (to me anyway) like the outjogged selection magically changes its horizontal position when the spread is lowered. Maybe it's just my dodgy eyesight.

I can't for the life of me see what advantages it offers over a standard convincing control with outjog.

Ian
I think I can. Familial relations notwithstanding, I like the control.

The versions of the Convincing Control I'm familiar with outjog the card as the deck is lowered or immediately after. The difference with Pharoah's (from other standard outjogging versions of the Convincing Control) is that he outjogs the card before the deck is lowered, and you apparently see the same outjogged card after. If there are standard handlings for the Convincing Control that do this, I plead ignorance.

It's a small detail, to be sure, but I love small details, and I have to say, "Well done."

Cheers,


Lance
PES
User avatar
Lance Pierce
 
Posts: 397
Joined: 02/19/08 01:00 PM
Location: Oklahoma City

Postby Bill Duncan » 12/12/05 06:20 PM

It looks pretty good, but it seems indistiguishable from Frank Simon's version of the Marlo/Jennings control.

There's a very nice tip in Card Collage which will help you correct the injogged card at the back of the spread problem.
Bill Duncan
 
Posts: 1352
Joined: 03/13/08 11:33 PM

Postby Pete Biro » 12/12/05 06:25 PM

I kinda like it... now to find a smooth deck to try it out.
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Ryan Matney » 12/12/05 07:19 PM

I don't think it's as bad as Werner does. I see no reason it wouldn't work in real performance as is.

What I meant earlier is that it wouldn't be the first convincing type control to outjog a card. I realize this version outjogs the card before the hands are raised.

I'd personally like to have a few tricks included in the booklet as well as the control.
Ryan Matney
 
Posts: 729
Joined: 01/18/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hurley, Va

Postby Guest » 12/13/05 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Ryan Matney:
I don't think it's as bad as Werner does. I see no reason it wouldn't work in real performance as is.
Let me explain why I'm a bit in doubt re how practical this handling is.

I simply have a hunch, an onlooker will notice the spread does move during the simple action of turning it from a vertical position to a horizontal one, and it is VERY hard to avoid this, and so, for a spec 'something' is going on.

The 'other' card has to be lined up in line with the one displayed and already pushed up a bit for the 'switch'.

I must however admit, the more I se the demo, the more I like it, my main concern is to an onlooker it might not be clean, something is going on, a move, whatever, it's not exactly 'just' a spread with an upwards outjogged card that is turned from vertical to horisontal, but again, well done as a demo for the fellow magis out there!

Also the card can only get controlled directly to the bottom, which of course isn't a problem as long as it is under control..
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/13/05 01:18 PM

One more thing re *cleanness*..
Compare this control with the Hofzinser Spread control, the way Daryl does it!
There is NO move..it is so convincing!

I just saw today a vid -I once got in private- from a swedish guy (John Houdi, now a long time pro) where he did use the Hofzinser Spread control/Daryl style, and it actually, even if I know it and I did know when he was doing it, FOOLED me..because there was no move at all..a very convincing display of the selected card..that's what I miss in the control in question, it isn't as clean as the one I just talked about, nevertheless somebody might get it to work the 'clean' way..ppl like Daryl most certainly, but we other mortals?

No doubt though, I'm far too critical re striving for 'the absence of moves' :(
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/13/05 04:54 PM

I checked earlier today. This looks very much

like the Ernest Earick version.Those that have

book, look it up ........Mike Walsh
Guest
 

Postby IanB » 12/14/05 01:39 AM

Originally posted by Lance Pierce:
The difference with Pharoah's (from other standard outjogging versions of the Convincing Control) is that he outjogs the card before the deck is lowered, and you apparently see the same outjogged card after.
By golly, you're right Lance - I knew I was missing something.

Still don't like the visible displacement of the outjogged card when you see the lowered spread - but maybe that's fixable.

Ian
IanB
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 03/05/08 01:00 PM
Location: UK

Postby Guest » 12/14/05 11:44 AM

Thanks to those that do like the control.

I would say that in performance I spread the remainder of the deck after its return to the horizontal whilst commenting, for example, that the spectators are free to choose a different card. The position of the card is not therefore an issue. Video demos are good for a guide but I do strongly feel that this is a great control and really is quite invisible in performance.

The instructions do cover a number of other ways of using the control.

There is also a glimpse that this control allows of the selected card which is invisible and extremely useful too. It's very deceptive.

www.magic-trickz.co.uk
Guest
 

Postby Matthew Field » 12/16/05 04:38 AM

I'd like to congratulate Pharaoh on the fine way he handled himself here on the Forum.

Well done, Pharaoh!

Matt Field
User avatar
Matthew Field
 
Posts: 2425
Joined: 01/18/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hastings, England, UK

Postby Guest » 12/19/05 02:06 PM

Thank you very much for your comments.

I have also now updated my website to give it a nice new look. Please let me know what you think to the new design.

www.magic-trickz.co.uk
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/20/05 03:57 PM

Originally posted by Lance Pierce:

The versions of the Convincing Control I'm familiar with outjog the card as the deck is lowered or immediately after. The difference with Pharoah's (from other standard outjogging versions of the Convincing Control) is that he outjogs the card before the deck is lowered, and you apparently see the same outjogged card after. If there are standard handlings for the Convincing Control that do this, I plead ignorance.
Earlier in this thread, John Bodine mentioned a Dan and Dave Buck control. Their control also starts with the card outjogged before the deck is lowered. It is called "The D.M.B. Spread Control" and can found on page 11 of their lecture notes, Nursery Rhymes, Vol. 3 (2003).
Here's a link:
http://www.dananddave.com/webstore/nr3.html

Bill
Guest
 

Postby Lance Pierce » 12/21/05 07:54 AM

I plead ignorance!

:)


PES
User avatar
Lance Pierce
 
Posts: 397
Joined: 02/19/08 01:00 PM
Location: Oklahoma City


Return to Link Watch