JUST MY OPINION

Discussions of new films, books, television shows, and media indirectly related to magic and magicians. For example, there may be a book on mnemonics or theatrical technique we should know or at least know about.
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JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 6:22 am

I hate card tricks. This may seem strange from the son of Dai Vernon. Even my dad was drawn to Leipsig and Malini who did not appear with a bunch of pseudo Chinese or Egyptian props. They picked up everyday objects and performed miracles with them. See you not the difference between a stage act with exotic props and someone who sits across the table from you and does real magic with everyday objects? This is just my opinion and explains why Slydini was my personal favorite.

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 11:16 am

Hey Derek,

A deck of cards is an "everyday object"to a huge number of people.

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 11:23 am

Originally posted by Chris Aguilar:
Hey Derek,

A deck of cards is an "everyday object"to a huge number of people.
Some of us were brought up with the opinion that a deck of cards and any mention of gambling was not appropriate for polite company.

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 12:08 pm

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
Some of us were brought up with the opinion that a deck of cards and any mention of gambling was not appropriate for polite company.
Hey, is it our fault that your parents had such puritan views of the use of cards? ;)

Perhaps they were distressed at the thought that their children might play solitaire or "go fish"?

These days (especially with the incredible popularity of "hold 'em poker), I don't think it's a stretch to say that for many many homes, a deck of cards remains a household item.

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 12:29 pm

Playing cards are totally immersed in pop culture today. I see people playing a game of cards everywhere - public transit, libraries, coffee shops, etc. My friends question me when I don't carry my pack with me.

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 2:24 pm

How many of your non-magician friends carry a pack of cards with them?

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 2:35 pm

Originally posted by Vernon's son:
How many of your non-magician friends carry a pack of cards with them?
How many of your friends carry a blender around with them all day? Something can be a "household" item without being something that one carries around at all times.

So...your point?

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 2:50 pm

Derek, could it be that you hate card tricks because you were exposed to an endless line of them growing up?

It's been my experience, fortunately, that most people like card tricks -- once you show them what they can be. Often their only prior experience is watching a drunk uncle do something really stupid. You show them something like Open Travellers and even if they professed to dislike card tricks before they quickly become converts.

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 2:57 pm

I see groups of people at my college playing cards all the time. In fact, just the other day, a guy was walking while overhand shuffling a deck.

It is normal at my school to see decks of cards everywhere.

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 3:12 pm

Originally posted by rage1:
It is normal at my school to see decks of cards everywhere.
Um... no comment.

Where I work, there are four people who play cards on Thursday during lunchbreak. There are two decks of cards in the shop. And that is the only time I see them touched.

BTW, my comment about the attitude I grew up around was explained at the time as that especially around food, cards are dirty from ones hands and the table.

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 3:20 pm

I see groups of people at my college playing cards all the time. In fact, just the other day, a guy was walking while overhand shuffling a deck.
Obviously a Graduate Student!
Smile

:)

Adrian

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 3:57 pm

In the late 1950's I attempted to do a card trick

in a restaurant for some of my friends with me and

the owner was going to throw us out. He thought

we were gambling and he would loose his license.

I explained and he told me never to do it again.

To make sure we never went back....Mike

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 4:20 pm

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
Originally posted by rage1:
[b] It is normal at my school to see decks of cards everywhere.
Um... no comment.

Where I work, there are four people who play cards on Thursday during lunchbreak. There are two decks of cards in the shop. And that is the only time I see them touched.

BTW, my comment about the attitude I grew up around was explained at the time as that especially around food, cards are dirty from ones hands and the table. [/b]
I work in a car plant with fifteen hundred employees working at any one time, and at breaks I see cards everywhere. They mostly play euker and cribbage, but the other day I noticed a group of Asian gentlemen playing a game I just could not wrap my head around.
The funny thing is, with all of the card games going on, whenever anyone notices the pack I use to keep my magazine open hey automatically ask if I'm a magician. Go figure.

Gord

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 9:23 pm

Perhaps the Genii magazine gave you away Gord!

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 10:18 pm

I swear I am not posting this just to be contrary, but I honestly can't think of a single time in the last year where I have seen ANY random people in public doing ANY-thing with a deck of cards.

Sure, there's interminable poker on t.v., and I do card tricks at shows, but other than that, I don't know anyone who plays cribbage, rummy, whist, nor even bridge...come to think of it, I have NO IDEA WHEN was the last time I saw someone messing around in any way with a deck of cards? Holy crap--can it be there are no decks of cards on the west coast?!

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 17th, 2006, 11:24 pm

Attending a High School reunion last week, I recalled there was another student, Matt, who was seriously into card magic, while I was into escapes.
Matt carried a deck, to show his card effects, for other students.
I, (like any normal student), carried a pair of handcuffs, so I could show my ability to escape from them, to anyone, so interested.

One day, in Mr. Unsworth's metal shop class, Matt was showing a trick, and seeing the cards, Mr. Unsworth confiscated them.
Matt protested saying, "But we aren't playing/gambling, I'm just doing some card tricks!"
Mr. Unsworth replied, "Matt, you know cards are on the list of items, not allowed on campus."

Matt, (being Matt) then pointed at my jacket pocket, saying, "Well Diego has a pair of handcuffs on him?!"

Mr. Unsworth, in his dead-pan tone, replied, "Handcuffs, while unusual, are not on the list of items, not allowed on campus."

So I kept my cuffs, and Mr. Unsworth, kept Matt's cards.

(God Bless you, Mr. Unsworth, wherever you are.)

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 20th, 2006, 4:58 pm

My first post that started this thread was confused. I combined two of of my biases about magic into one blurred post. First: I don't like card tricks. Second: I dont like acts that use props that look like magic props, especially those inscribed with Chinese or Egyptian motif or lettering. I hate fishbowls and feather flowers and a zillion silks produced from nowhere.

To me real magic occurs when a magician picks up something ordinary from the dinner table and performs a miracle with it. There is some crossover in that a pack of cards is not usually lying around and thus it arouses suspicion as being just another piece of gimmicked magic apparatus.

I do not mean to offend stage acts and I did like Fu Manchu's act. I liked Cardini more because he did not appear in the persona of some exotic genius come here to amaze us, but as kind of a Jack Norton who seemed more the victim than the master of his magic.

I suippose my bias about cards has something to do with the thousands of card tricks I have been forced to view over the course of many decades. After long exposure, even the best card tricks get boring. (please don't tell me you have been into card magic for a million years - you chose that, I just got stuck with it. My interests were elsewhere.)

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 20th, 2006, 5:35 pm

l'd still love to learn how Malini could produce a block of ice under a hat after being watched like a hawk for hours before-hand. Damn! I wish I could have continued my father's work. I had other genes in my makeup. Too bad. but I think my Dad did not mind that none of his kids (HE HAD JUST TWO) inherited his madness and I am sure my Mom is very happy. There were just about four of the hundreds she met whom she had any respect for,

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 20th, 2006, 6:18 pm

Shame you did not read your father's books

because the ice trick is explained on page 56

of "Malini and his Magic " in the first edition.

I believe it was published around 1950.....Mike

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 20th, 2006, 7:01 pm

Originally posted by Mike Walsh II:
Shame you did not read your father's books

because the ice trick is explained on page 56

of "Malini and his Magic " in the first edition.

I believe it was published around 1950.....Mike
No one was ever able to catch Malini getting the ice 'loaded up' in preparation for its production. I believe this is the primary element Mr. Verner is alluding to here...

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 20th, 2006, 8:20 pm

My Dad tried very hard to find how MALINI GOT THE ICE IN THE FIRST PLACE. He was no fool but was never able to learn how the master loaded up, believe me -- he really tried.

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 20th, 2006, 9:05 pm

Originally posted by Vernon's son:
There is some crossover in that a pack of cards is not usually lying around and thus it arouses suspicion as being just another piece of gimmicked magic apparatus.
I'd say that in many homes and other places, you're dead wrong about that.

Just because they might not be common in your daily routine does not mean that cards are unusual items to have around. With the popularity of folks playing poker (and other games) at home, having a deck around isn't terribly unusual at all. Cards are widely available at just about any grocery store and pharmacy for crying out loud. What do you suppose people do with all those decks after they purchase them?

If one makes use of a borrowed deck (or allows the spectator crack open a fresh deck and shuffle it/handle it themselves), I wouldn't say it's a huge concern that the deck will be dismissed as "just another piece of gimmicked apparatus". And if someone does insist on making that claim, some performers will just finish by giving out the deck as a souvenir.

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 21st, 2006, 1:34 am

speaking personaly, i never carry any cards with me on a daily basis.
The only time i have a pack on me, is if i have a gig, or i have been asked to show someone something" next time your in the pub".
I try to have the savy to do something with what ever is laying around at the time.
to do this, i try to make sure i have a reasonabe working knolwedge of principles, rather than just effects.
then you can borrow a coin, or use a beer mat, or a ring and a shoelace, and make magic for the punters.
I agree with you 100% when you say that Boxes with Oriental designs have had their day.

Their day was during the 20's and 30's when everything was oriental or Egyptian.

Unfortunatly magic sometimes does get stuck in a rut as far as the look of it goes.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 21st, 2006, 8:19 am

I've had a deck of cards in my front right trousers pocket every day of my life since the age of 12. It has served me very well.
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Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » November 21st, 2006, 8:31 am

Originally posted by Mike Walsh II:
Shame you did not read your father's books

because the ice trick is explained on page 56

of "Malini and his Magic " in the first edition.

I believe it was published around 1950.....Mike
Unfortunately, it's my understanding that the Malini book is wildly inaccurate. While I don't have first-hand knowledge of this, I've been told this by folks who actually talked with Malini's son, Ozzie, about it.

I do know for a fact, though, that the book on Leipzig suffers from similar misinformation.

-Jim

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 21st, 2006, 8:55 am

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
I've had a deck of cards in my front right trousers pocket every day of my life since the age of 12. It has served me very well.
As in "Is that a deck of cards in your pocket, or are you you pleased to see me?"

Is that the sort of "served you very well"?

(I must dig out that jumbo deck that I've got laying about somewhere.....)

Dave

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 21st, 2006, 10:28 am

No, it has served me well when I wanted to do a card trick at an impromptu moment. Nothing else intended.
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Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 25th, 2006, 11:27 am

Household item or not, it isnt unusual to see a non magician carrying a deck of cards. And from now on I am going to carry one in my right front trouser pocket.

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 28th, 2006, 3:01 pm

When you go to an SAM or IBM convention, be sure to carry a pack of cards (or your cell phone) in your pocket. Many will believe you are an expert card man. To me, it seems like putting a pair of socks in your underwear.

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Tom Stone
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Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Tom Stone » November 28th, 2006, 6:44 pm

Originally posted by Vernon's son:
To me, it seems like putting a pair of socks in your underwear.
Ah, that makes more sense! I've always got that backwards, but of course, a log must be better than a limp.

Sorry, Mr. Verner. I've got a penchant for bad jokes, often self-deprecating ones. Most of them are probably lost in translation as well, so I'm not even sure why I persist with them.

I never met your father, as I was raised in the rural parts of Sweden and I was to young to catch him that one time he visited here. But I've learnt a lot from his books and through my late friend Max Milton (who taught himself english by translating the Dai Vernon Book of Magic, word by word, using a dictionary). So, it has been pleasurable to read your writings in these fora.

There are two items by your father that I've taken a certain interest in, and I'm a bit curious if he ever talked about them in an dissatisfied tone of voice. As if they didn't live up to his expectations (in the context of getting reactions from an audience).

The two items are "Ball and Cone" and "Silk and Silver" - the latter is the one where invisible coins appear in a folded piece of cloth.

I don't know if he talked about such matters in your presence. But I would be very interested in knowing just about anything about the Professor's own evaluation of those two pieces, and I hope you don't mind my asking.

Sincerely,
Tom Stone

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 28th, 2006, 9:33 pm

Never mind the magic nonsense. I am a devout word buff and I could not miss your use of the word "fora" Is this really the plural of "forum?"

(I only remember the ball and cone - sorry)

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Tom Stone
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Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Tom Stone » November 28th, 2006, 9:53 pm

Originally posted by Vernon's son:
Never mind the magic nonsense. I am a devout word buff and I could not miss your use of the word "fora" Is this really the plural of "forum?"

(I only remember the ball and cone - sorry)
Ah, you have no idea how complex and conflicting feelings that answer gave me. :-)
I'm a passionate artist, Mr. Verner, and magic is my craft. Had anyone but the son of Dai Vernon labeled my art "nonsense", I would have known exactly what to riposte with. But now, with you - gimbal lock! A very odd sensation!

Oh well..

I do enjoy words though. Unfortunately, my mother tongue is swedish, and I lack any kind of higher education, so my usage of the language is all based on guesswork. Although, I do know that in swedish, the proper plural of "forum" is "fora". And since "forum/fora" is latin, my uneducated guess is that the same plural applies in english.
But since we are on the internet, it takes just a second to bring up:
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=fora&gwp=16

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 28th, 2006, 11:34 pm

Regarding the ball and cone, Vernon certainly didn`t think much of the version published in his book. It was originally designed for his Harlequin act and a lot of the routine was dependant on the cover provided by the flaring sleeves of his extravagant costume.

Vernon was persuaded to quickly come up with an alternative routine for publishing in the book.

Check the Revelations videotapes for sources.

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 29th, 2006, 3:32 am

Originally posted by Tom Stone

Ah, that makes more sense! I've always got that backwards, but of course, a log must be better than a limp.

Sorry, Mr. Verner. I've got a penchant for bad jokes, often self-deprecating ones.:
shouldnt that read self defecating?

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 29th, 2006, 5:30 am

I, for one, will let you keep that one to yourself, Dale.

Tom: your English is terrific. So is your magic. Regarding "Silk and Silver", I only found it of vague interest until I saw Curtis Kam's approach on "Palms of Steel" -- suddenly the effect became ... entertaining.

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Tom Stone
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Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Tom Stone » November 29th, 2006, 6:43 am

Originally posted by jnhofzinser:
Check the Revelations videotapes for sources.
Thanks. I'm well aware of the published record, and my gut feeling is that the published record is flawed. That is what I was curious about.

Dale, I got your point. Is that the only interpretation of "log"? Hmm, another one lost in translation then.

Doug. Thanks :-)

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 29th, 2006, 7:16 am

Originally posted by Tom Stone:
Is that the only interpretation of "log"? Hmm, another one lost in translation then.
I got the joke, and I [censored] at it.

And I'm sure that all the other Brits here (including Dale) did too. I have no idea about US English, though.

Dave

Guest

Re: JUST MY OPINION

Postby Guest » November 29th, 2006, 9:28 am

Originally posted by Tom Stone:
Originally posted by jnhofzinser:
[b]Check the Revelations videotapes for sources.
Thanks. I'm well aware of the published record, and my gut feeling is that the published record is flawed. That is what I was curious about.
[/b]
Hi, just to clear up any confusion, I meant the videotapes as a source for my comments. The stuff I mentioned is not my opinion but came from Vernon himself, that's all.


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