One handed palm

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Postby Guest » 01/18/04 06:58 AM

I'm having a little difficulty with the palm that's done in the right hand using the little finger. Either the card doesn't move forwards (ie, lack of grip), or several cards lift up. I mainly have problems with the latter, as a quick lick of the finger helps to push the card. Any suggestions?

Thanks

J
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Postby Guest » 01/18/04 10:47 AM

Where are you learning this from?
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/18/04 12:34 PM

About getting more than one card to push over and pop...

The OHTP is a useful move and would be enhanced by a technique to get more than one card palmed. How are you doing this?

As things are, the fleshy pad of my pinkie contacts the card a few millimeters diagonally inwards from the corner and pushes the card out towards the corner of the deck. I can't get more than one to move unless I push DOWN and even then the finish on the cards makes moving more than one card unreliable.

I'm interested to know what you are doing.
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Postby Guest » 01/18/04 12:59 PM

I'm learning it from Derren Brown's videotape, The Devil's Picturebook (although he just breezes through it) and also a little from one of ellusionist's ezines.

I'm making several come up by pushing forwards and down with the fleshy part, just left of the top right corner on the cards or thereabouts. I think that my problem is that as I'm doing it, I tend to push the deck forwards at the top with my thumb and this means that several cards up. Usually about two or three come up, but occasionally only one does. It may need a little refining to be reliable :)

Thanks for the tip.

J
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Postby Guest » 01/19/04 07:36 PM

The classic reference for the One-Hand-Top Palm is ECT (p. 177-178 of the Dover edition). The text description is of a replacement but the footnote on p. 177 talks about reversing the action for the palm.

Like Jonathan, I can't imagine what you might be doing to get multiple cards, unless, perhaps, you are using a deck with relatively rough backs. Hoyle?

cheers, Doug
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Postby AMCabral » 01/20/04 08:12 AM

There's a description in the L'Homme Masque issue of Genii that comes from Magic Without Apparatus describing a one-hand top palm for one or multiple cards by squeezing (a la springing the cards). It's a technique for a large hand.

Perhaps your grip on the deck is such that you're squeezing and letting cards escape from under your thumb? Either that or sticky cards...

-Tony
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Postby Guest » 01/20/04 12:09 PM

It's not because of sticky cards, as I thought this was the problem and started practicing with a new deck. I think maybe it's because I'm putting too much downwards pressure on the top card and it's causing multiple cards underneath to move when it's pushed sideways. Should the top of the deck be positioned at the joint of the thumb, or under it (away from the palm)? Or above it, for that matter?

I might also tag this onto the end: When doing the Impromptu Haunted Deck wherein the deck appears to cut itself, is there any advice for using new cards? All of them seem to slide and the only way I can think of to prevent this is to make the cards stickier. May need to pop out and buy some jam in any case.

Thanks to all.

J
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Postby Ed Oschmann » 01/20/04 12:59 PM

In his video, 'Creating Magic', Gary Kurtz gives a very lucid description of the OHTP. I'm pretty sure that it's in his routine 'Hypothetical Possibilities.
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Postby Thomas Van Aken » 01/23/04 05:44 AM

Hi Jason,
Holding the deck in the proper position is essential to the success of the OHTP and where a lot of peoples fail.
I suggest that you have a close look at the illustration in ECT which tell all.
Even if I never had a close look at it, I bet that Giobbi's description in CC3 is also to recommand.
Good luck
Thomas
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Postby Guest » 01/23/04 12:47 PM

Sorry, but...ECT?
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 01/23/04 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Jason Lee:
Sorry, but...ECT?
Expert Card Technique, by Hugard and Braue.

-Jim
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Postby Jason England » 01/23/04 05:38 PM

My guess is you're not holding the deck tightly enough.

When I first read that you had a problem with more than one card coming up at a time, I tried to replicate it and I couldn't. Why? Because I was holding the deck properly. As soon as I put the deck on the table and pushed with my pinkie, I got about 3-4 cards to pop up in the same manner that you describe.

In the same way that the left fingers act as a gauge when strike second dealing to ensure that only one card is dealt at a time, the right fingers and thumb act as a gauge during the one-hand top palm. They should be gripping the deck firmly enough so that your right 4th finger can push the top card, and ONLY the top card slightly forward of the pack. At that point your 4th finger can push downwards on the jogged upper right corner and palm the card.

As you'll find with more experience with this move, the inner left corner of the deck moves in a counter-clockwise direction until it clears the right thumb. It is at this point that the card "pops" up into the palm. Your right thumb is therefore a control point, and should allow only the top card to move. Try experimenting with how much pressure your right thumb applies and see if that helps.

Jason
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/23/04 06:55 PM

Jason Lee, don't feel bad
I've been trying for years and I'm still mad
Have never been able to palm the damn card
with just one hand, though I've tried real hard.

Seriously, I have NEVER been able to do the One-Hand Top Palm. And, though Hugard claims to have invented it, Vernon told me that it really belonged to Judson Cole.
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Postby Brian Morton » 01/23/04 07:30 PM

Wow, Richard, thank you. [earnestly]

Now I don't feel like a dork -- I've never been able to do that thing, and I was starting to feel like I'm the last guy picked at kickball.

brian :cool:
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Postby Bill Duncan » 01/23/04 11:34 PM

I recommend that anyone wishing to learn a One Handed Top Palm check out Jon Racherbaumer's Card Finesse. On page 74 there is a Marlo handling called "Refined One-Hand Top Palm".

You don't see many people using it and that amazes me because it's so clearly the right idea. The method avoids the "cupping" of the pack tell that most people have when they do a OHTP.

I find it easier to do as well, but your mileage may vary in that regard.
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Postby Guest » 01/24/04 10:14 AM

In the Magic of Eddie Fechter there is a nice method for hiding the cupping of the hand during the one handed palm..As you do the palm you simply tap the side of the deck on the table top as if simply squaring the deck.
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Postby Guest » 01/24/04 10:49 AM

The description which nailed the move for me was Roberto Giobbi's from Card College 3 which crystallized the necessary mechanial actions.

J. England's tips are beneficial, to which I would add the following: a gentle squeeze inward, essentially trying to push the outer right corner diagonally toward the inner left, immediately followed by the little finger push. This in-then-out action frees those of us with extra dry hands from applying too much pressure, and allows the card to pop into the palm.

--Randy Campbell
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Postby Guest » 01/24/04 11:35 AM

For those interested in the Fechter misdirection, it was actually published by Marlo in Action Palms (pp. 35-36, 1956) long before it was published in Mentzer's Card Cavalcade (1972).
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Postby Guest » 01/25/04 11:42 AM

Wow, thanks to all you guys for these tips. I'll probably order ECT in pretty soon, as soon as I get the cash for it.

It's actually working pretty well now. I'm using it by carrying out the technique with my right hand while patting my left pockets with my left hand and saying "And your card is...". Then I switch the hand holding the deck and plunge my right hand into a pocket. Still need practicing though, before I can use it.

Thanks again.

J
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Postby Jeff Haas » 01/25/04 07:30 PM

It's also worth looking at the description in Card Manipulations Series 1-5, also published by Dover. See page 2.

(This was published earlier than ECT and Hugard mentions this in the ECT footnote, described above.)

I've also found that it can help to break the palm up into two half-moves (thank you, Roger Klause!)

The first half-move is to "[censored]" the card: The little finger presses down on the top right corner of the card, and pivots it counter-clockwise, so the top right corner hangs over the rest of the deck. You can look down next to your right thumb and see the position the card has moved to. This also allows you to check and see if you've only got one card.

The second half-move is to re-position the right little finger so the top-right corner of the [censored] card goes into the pad at the end of the little finger. (To find this spot, palm a card in your normal palming position; then look at where your little finger tip is holding the corner of the card.) You can then press down with the little finger and pop the card into palm position. A slight twist of the right hand, as if turning a doorknob, can help push the card all the way into the palm.

By repositioning the little finger so the card will go into palming position, you gain more control over it and keep it from popping out of your hand to the side. And, by breaking up the palm into two half-moves, you can have the card "[censored]" and then turn your attention away from the deck, palm the card under cover of a gesture, and then hand the deck off to your left hand so the right hand can go into a pocket or wallet.

Jeff
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/26/04 06:45 AM

Learning the palm was not so tough, though as per the original write up... that replacement is truly a 'bit of a corker'.

The move can be done from a double lift and as a color change.
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Postby Stefan Sprenger » 01/26/04 06:53 AM

By the way there is an alternative handling which where it is possilbel to palm more then one card for a refernece check out Rene Lavand Magic from the Soul.

Best,

Stefan
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Postby luigimar » 01/26/04 03:50 PM

I learned this through a Paul Harris video (Stars of Magic). I think it was his second video where he teaches Bushwacker and Strange Exchange which is a good trick where a card and a coin change places. He uses the OHTP to make a card disappear and a coin takes its place.

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Postby Guest » 01/26/04 05:09 PM

Jason,
You should be able to get a copy of ECT for less than 10....I got mine from Jb magic in Blackpool...Good luck..Steve.
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Postby CHRIS » 01/26/04 09:37 PM

Originally posted by gregory:
You should be able to get a copy of ECT for less than 10....
You might want to download it for $6 from http://www.lybrary.com/index.html?goto= ... nique.html

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Postby Guest » 01/31/04 09:18 AM

... two things That I've found help: the first is some Motion-Lotion (from Tannen's) and, most especially - a very very light grip in the left hand, right pinky on the outer-right corner, and the the first joint of the 3rd finger next to it... Then as you push forward in a sliding-over-a-waterfall sort of motion with your right hand, turn it from 12oclock to a 11oclcok position to move the card out in a counter-clockwise spin-- this is where you can grip it .. and practice an awful awful lot:))

Good Luck - Rich
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Postby Guest » 01/31/04 12:53 PM

...sorry - ONE HANDED.... sorry..... I misread...

... as the pinky moves forward, it pushes the leading edge of the card against the 2nd finger (which is locked down over the front and is the main-stay against the pressure of the thumb) and this acts as a pivot so the card swings out to the right a bit. Practice will help control that swing..... Use one finger of your left hand to lightly and gently press up against the face of the deck to steady it and add a measure of security.... but mostly rely on your right hand grip and slowly ween yourself from the left hand assistance as your muscles learn what is expected of them........

... hope that helps...Rich
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Postby Steve Hook » 02/01/04 10:50 AM

Is there a trick to keeping the card from pivoting too far to the right, past the edge of the palm?
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Postby Guest » 02/01/04 11:24 AM

Steve,
You can tap the right side of the pack on the table as you palm the card. This is a Marlo idea from Action Palm, pp. 35-36.
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Postby Andi » 03/01/04 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Seriously, I have NEVER been able to do the One-Hand Top Palm. And, though Hugard claims to have invented it, Vernon told me that it really belonged to Judson Cole.
Richard...

You'll almost certainly know this (Grandmother... meet eggs), but I thought I'd throw another tip of the hat to Cole anyway:

In Arthur Buckley's Card Control, Buckley also credits the move to Cole and comments, "It has been published before, and my reason for including it here is that I believe it was originated by Judson Cole, some twenty year or more ago."

Thats it. Nothing more to see here :)

--Andi

P.S - It was good meeting with you in Blackpool, Richard.
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Postby Craig Matsuoka » 03/01/04 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Steve Hook:
Is there a trick to keeping the card from pivoting too far to the right, past the edge of the palm?
I had the same problem. The card would sometimes swing too far. After thinking about it for a while, I realized that my ring finger was pressing too hard on the forward edge.

You shouldn't have to do this, but here's a tip you might find helpful while you practice.

Try relaxing the grip of your ring finger as your pinky pushes over the card. In fact, don't even touch the deck with your ring finger. Imagine that it's broken and taped up in a splint. Just let it hang out in space.

Keep practicing and eventually, you'll be able to palm the card without having to loosen up your ring finger.
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