Credit debt

A place where beginners can participate, ask questions, and post their views. However, beginners typically ask a lot of questions about sources, tricks, books, and so on. In fact, all magicians are interested (or should be) in the provenance of tricks, ideas, and related matters. This department will service these needs.

Postby Guest » 09/05/06 02:31 AM

Hello everyone,

My name's oliver meech and I'm new to this board, though I've been doing magic on and off for about ten years now.

I'm in the process of writing my first book and want to get the creditting for my effects correct. I'm trying to include the book/magazine title, author, first publication date, publisher and page number for all the tricks and moves I reference.

I've managed to find quite a few of the references but there are some that I'm struggling with.

I'd be hugely grateful if anyone could help by providing details for any of the following (information needed is in brackets). I believe correct creditting is very important and want to get it right.

-Out To Lunch (inventor, date)

-LifeSavers by Michael Weber (date)

-The Flushtration Count by Norm Houghton (book/magazine title, publisher, date, page)

-David Regals effect using photograph(s) in Spectacle by Stephen Minch (date, publisher, trick name, page)

-Henry Christ force (book/magazine title, date, publisher, page)

-The K.M. move (inventor, book/magazine title, date, publisher, page).

-Dry Marker principle (inventor, book/magazine title, date, publisher, page).

-John Bannons trick where a small photo of a card develops, in Impossibilia (trick name, page, publisher, date)

-Merryls Knife Book (spelling of Merryl, publisher, date, page where he recommends doing the paddle move horizontally rather than vertically).

-Penn and Tellers trick where the name of a card appears on contact lenses from The Unpleasant World of P & T TV show (series and episode number, production company, date)

-Derren Browns invincibility at Paper, Scissors, Stone (name of TV series, episode)

Thank you hugely in advance for any help you can give with any/all of these.

Oliver
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Postby Guest » 09/05/06 05:38 AM

Originally posted by olivermeech:
LifeSavers by Michael Weber (date)
It says Copyright 1991 in my copy. The foreword is dated June 1991. No other date info that I can find.

Dave
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 09/05/06 06:33 AM

Originally posted by olivermeech:
-Out To Lunch (inventor, date)
Max Maven posted the following information on the MagicTalk forum a number of years ago:

The Out-to-Lunch Principle gets its name from a marketed trick devised by Clare Cummings and Bob Ellis in the mid-1940s.

The roots extend back much further, to seance gaffs of the 19th century. See, for example, "The Interrupted Flap" in _Spirit Slate Writing and Kindred Phenomena_ by William Robinson, 1898.

It has been commonly held by modern magic historians that the paper modification should be credited to Edward Bagshawe, used in "The Recurring Name" in _Twenty Magical Novelties_, 1930).

However, in 1994 I tracked down the existence of a prior source, Tom Bowyer's "A Message From Nowhere" in the April 1928 _Linking Ring_. And, in 1995, I found yet an earlier credit: William Larsen Sr., "Finger Prints" in the July 1923 _Sphinx_.

This historical information has appeared in print more than once, but few seem to notice, and fewer seem to care. And thus, magic continues to spin, an unknowing ouroboros.


The info can be found here: Magic Talk Archives -- Out to Lunch

-The Flushtration Count by Norm Houghton (book/magazine title, publisher, date, page)
Houghton published it in Ibidem #1, June 1955. The name, and it's association with Br. John Hamman, came from Hamman's marketed effect, "Flushtration" in 1969. In the Ibidem description, it was said to be an old principle, perhaps referring to the Hindu Shuffle, though that is unclear. The two are certainly related.

-David Regals effect using photograph(s) in Spectacle by Stephen Minch (date, publisher, trick name, page)
Spectacle was published in 1990 by L&L Publishing. The effect in question appears on pg 27 and is called "Baby Face". Thanks to Doug Atkinson for making this info available here: Magic Books Table of Contents

-The K.M. move (inventor, book/magazine title, date, publisher, page).
The 'K.M.' refers to Kardyro/Marlo, the two inventors of the move. It was published in 1962 in a booklet by Marlo. This info comes courtesy of Jim Molinari


-Merryls Knife Book (spelling of Merryl, publisher, date, page where he recommends doing the paddle move horizontally rather than vertically).
Merrill's Knife Book was published in 1981 by Robert Lee Jacobs. The Paddle Move is explained on pg. 8, but I can't say for certain what exactly he recommends there, as I don't have the book in front of me. Thanks again to Doug Atkinson.

-Jim
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Postby Guest » 09/05/06 06:45 AM

Afterthought - the following site is often useful when seeking such info.

http://www.lybrary.com/mlp/

Dave
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Postby Guest » 09/05/06 09:28 AM

Wow!

What a speedy response!

With your credits and through the websites mentioned (and imdb and google) I've now found references for everything except the dry marker principle.

So if anyone knows where it came from, please get in touch.

And thank you very much Dave and Jim. I'll mention you guys in the acknowledgements.

Thanks again,

Oliver
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Postby Max Maven » 09/05/06 01:05 PM

The "dry marker" idea predates markers. It was first done with a prepared pencil, by Tom Sellers of Scotland. I do not have the precise reference at hand, but I think it was in the 1920s.

Variations followed, with a dried ballpoint pen an obvious next step. The first to make the (also obvious) leap to a dried marker might have been me, in 1973.
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Postby Bob Farmer » 09/05/06 02:56 PM

The dry marker method was exposed in a Columbo episode involving feuding psychics. However, I don't know the original air date or the title. I believe it may have been written by Bill Woodfield. Max?
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Postby Guest » 09/05/06 04:03 PM

Originally posted by Bob Farmer:
The dry marker method ...
Is this about a dry marker or a "dry marker" which has similar applications while being visibly applicable?
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 09/05/06 04:11 PM

Originally posted by Bob Farmer:
The dry marker method was exposed in a Columbo episode involving feuding psychics. However, I don't know the original air date or the title. I believe it may have been written by Bill Woodfield. Max?
Columbo Goes to the Guillotine in 1989 with the great Anthony Zerbe playing a James Randi-like character versus a Geller-like character played by Anthony Andrews. Yes; William Read Woodfield has a writing credit.

Dustin

Oh, and Jonathan: Its a dried up magic marker versus the dry-erase markers used these days.
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Postby Guest » 09/06/06 02:33 AM

Hello,

You could find some references on www.magicbooks.be, hope this helps,

Jacky
www.magicbooks.be
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Postby Guest » 09/08/06 01:01 AM

Hurrah!

I have all the references.

Thanks to everyone who helped out - you've done in a few days what would have taken me a few months!

Thanks again,

Oliver
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