Illusion plans for magicians with tight budget!

A place where beginners can participate, ask questions, and post their views. However, beginners typically ask a lot of questions about sources, tricks, books, and so on. In fact, all magicians are interested (or should be) in the provenance of tricks, ideas, and related matters. This department will service these needs.

Postby Guest » 09/11/06 11:27 AM

Hi - just wanted to let you know I have a couple of illusion eBooks (with demo videos) for magicians who want to do big stuff but don't have a huge budget.

I wil be adding all the while, but here's a start. I, too, am one of those magicians!

Click here...
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Postby Guest » 09/11/06 05:17 PM

You might want to re-shoot the demo videos of the bike appearance and the car production. Both have either edits or video jumpiness which look suspicious.

Assuming the videos are representative of the illusions, nice work.

It wouldn't cost much to customize the fabrics with your clients artwork, making it practical to offer made to order illusions for corporate clients.
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Postby Guest » 09/11/06 07:51 PM

Um...I'm sorry ...when did David Copperfield join the forum. The troupe vanish looks nice but music, staging, ...well everything...is a little too David Copperfield, heck elsewhere on the site you even do an exact David impression with the motorcycle. I would be careful with this type of approach if you want to sell yourself as someone who knows what they are doing, and someone who has stuff that will work in the real world and not just TV I would try and be yourself.
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Postby Guest » 09/11/06 08:16 PM

Originally posted by Brian Scott Ambrosch:
Um...I'm sorry ...when did David Copperfield join the forum.
Is harsh sarcasm really the best way to make your point, Brian?
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Postby Guest » 09/12/06 08:12 AM

Sometimes a little "harsh" is what is needed to make a point, I think sometimes we as a group can be a little too timid about calling someone out on being a copy...but I am sorry if anyone was offended, it wasn't meant to be too harsh.
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Postby Guest » 01/20/07 11:57 PM

It seems that if one performs anything larger than say a flaming head chest then it's a copy of Mr. Copperfield in some way. The video, although a bit choppy, is still impressive. Really what do you expect an illusionist (who already said he's on a budget) to do? Walk out in a plaid shirt and blue jeans? Black is a dominate colour used by nearly every magician at some point in their career. Why, Copperfield himself has copied other magicians Illusions, routines and lines. What besides smoke and a black box (hundreds of illusionists have much of the same stuff) does this guy have in common with Dave? I suppose if I performed Misled or The Floating Rose Youd think I was a copy, but the audience would think hes magic! (Incidentally my performance is much different then what whats previously seen.). We cannot always be original as to what tricks we do, rather we learn what others have invented. Funny that we dont refer to that as copying we simply call it learning. Of course we should always can strive have an original performance but originality is something that becomes harder and harder with each year that passes. Personally I think we should save those sorts of comments for the performers who dont practice much, yet try to perform something they havent really learned and those vicious fiends who would expose the secrets of our beloved art.
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Postby Guest » 02/20/07 07:09 AM

I think harsh sarcasm should be avoided. Let's get to the point. Honest and up front.

This is a total rip off of Copperfield's style. Regardless of whether or not it was done well. And it could be argued that it was not done all that well.

If the magician were wearing rainbow overalls and had long hair and a mustache people would have jumped all over him.

At first, I actually thought this was Dirk Arthur. Who is a bit of a Copperfield clone. So I guess this is a clone of a clone.

Hmmm...now that I re-read this I think sarcasm would have made it more entertaining. I am going to rethink my stance on sarcasm.
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Postby Guest » 02/22/07 02:45 AM

most of the posts above seem to be dealing with the video dems, rather than what's actualy on offer.


the stuff Julian is selling, isnt staging and choreography. He's selling Ilusion solutions for people on a budget.
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Postby Guest » 03/24/07 02:11 AM

Adam Milestone wrote:

What besides smoke and a black box (hundreds of illusionists have much of the same stuff) does this guy have in common with Dave?
Do you really know "Dave" well enough to refer to him as Dave?

Let me point out that when you accuse "Dave" of performing other people's material, he normally pays for that material.

Occasionally, he slips up, but not very often.
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Postby Guest » 03/24/07 04:58 AM

In the vanish of 7 dancers, the music being used for the staging is exactly the same piece (by composer Marc Shaiman, from The American President soundtrack) that is used by David Copperfield in the illusion "13", wherein 13 audience members vanish and reappear at the back of the theater.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tte6yzmB_UU

The motorcycle transforming into two women is, move-for-move, a direct lift from Copperfield's "Orient Express" tv special. This illusion opened the program. Even Julian's choreography is identical, i.e. his magical gesture.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xz28uQF1Pyc
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Postby Tom Stone » 03/24/07 07:29 AM

Travis Winkler wrote:
The motorcycle transforming into two women is, move-for-move, a direct lift from Copperfield's "Orient Express" tv special.
At first, I didn't understand what you meant, as I was looking at clips on the Ebook-page. Then I found the other clips elsewhere on the site.

Yes, not much to argue there. Looks like a direct lift.
By the way - who is the originator of that effect? The creators are usually listed at the end of the shows, but it never says who created what.
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Postby Guest » 03/24/07 01:02 PM

It makes you wonder whether this fellow who is producing these plans has any idea that any of this material might actually belong to someone. He certainly does not realize that he can't just pop a video up on his web site or you tube without the people who own the copyrights to the music eventually checking it out. While magicians don't generally do much to protect their intellectual property, musicians almost always do.
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Postby Guest » 03/24/07 01:30 PM

His car appearance contains a blatant edit. Nothing more than the magic of good old Georges Melies going on in this one.
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Postby NCMarsh » 03/24/07 01:32 PM

It makes you wonder whether this fellow who is producing these plans has any idea that any of this material might actually belong to someone. He certainly does not realize that he can't just pop a video up on his web site or you tube without the people who own the copyrights to the music eventually checking it out. While magicians don't generally do much to protect their intellectual property, musicians almost always do.
The great irony there is that, based on the rest of the site, this guy is a composer/arranger...

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Postby Guest » 03/26/07 06:14 AM

Actually, it is rare that musicians go after the rights, as they usually have to give up most of them to the publisher or recording company when the performances are "pressed". The rights they are able to retain are minimal at best. The "big brother" in this case are the organizations known as ASCAP and BMI, with BMI being the most vicious about collecting royalites. They prowl all the restaurents here in Florida, making sure that the owners have those little stickers on their doors indicating they pay the proper royalites for the music played inside. If only the musicians COULD get what they earned by writing the music in the first place, and if only magicians would show the consideration of not calling someone else's effect or routine their own, what a perfect world it would be.....

Mark Pettey
Profesional musician / magician
Naples, FL
www.magician.org/member/robbietheringmaster/home
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Postby John LeBlanc » 03/26/07 07:40 AM

Mark Pettey wrote:
Actually, it is rare that musicians go after the rights, as they usually have to give up most of them to the publisher or recording company when the performances are "pressed". The rights they are able to retain are minimal at best. The "big brother" in this case are the organizations known as ASCAP and BMI, with BMI being the most vicious about collecting royalites. They prowl all the restaurents here in Florida, making sure that the owners have those little stickers on their doors indicating they pay the proper royalites for the music played inside. If only the musicians COULD get what they earned by writing the music in the first place, and if only magicians would show the consideration of not calling someone else's effect or routine their own, what a perfect world it would be.....
Vicious? That's funny. Maybe if some restaurant owners would get a serious case of kneecapitus it wouldn't be such a pain to collect royalties on behalf of writers who are rightfully owed the money.

As for the rest of your post, musicians are perfectly able to record, produce, press, distribute, and retain all rights to their work without including a label or copyright collective. There is no requirement to abdicate one single penny to ASCAP, BMI, SESAC or any other copyright collective or label.

Of course, that means a musician will have to fund the production and pressing himself. And then there's distribution to both retail, and radio & television. And, of course, there's marketing. In the unlikely event any establishment actually plays a cut from a CD, it's now the musician's responsibility to establish when and where the performance took place, and collect royalties on those performances.

Labels and copyright collectives provide a service on behalf of authors and performers. In exchange, they take their vig. No one is required to sign on the dotted line if they don't feel the exchange is worth it.

John
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Postby Guest » 03/26/07 08:12 AM

Wow......I am sorry I made the last post. All this did was steer the conversation away from magic. My apologies. I seem to have struck a nerve.

Mark Pettey
Naples , FL
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Postby John LeBlanc » 03/26/07 09:14 AM

Yeah, well, that'll learn you.

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Postby Guest » 03/26/07 09:23 PM

I am a member of ASCAP. I receive a half dozen or so checks a year from them from royalties on tunes that I own. Four of these checks are quarterly checks. The other two are checks for foreign royalties that come in twice a year. While they don't amount to a whole lot of money most of the time, it's money I wouldn't have if I weren't a member of ASCAP.

If you are big enough in the music business that you have a lot of material that is played regularly in live performance venues and/or broadcast on radio and TV, as well as on computer broadcasts, you will make money from your membership in ASCAP.

You can get around all of that, though, if you write all your own music. There are a number of groups that do that, and do so quite successfully. But you may have trouble finding someone who wants to hear what you wrote instead of the ASCAP or BMI material.

A friend of mine who is in the magic business is from Nashville. His father owned a restaurant that had live music. He hired a fellow to come in and play, and the guy did not do well. At first, when he played the things people wanted to hear, he got decent tips and made a good connection. But as the night wore on, he played more and more of the things he had written and less of the things people requested. That was his only night. Later, though, Kris Kristofferson made it pretty big.

Sometimes owners of venues mess things up for themselves because they can't see past the end of their own noses. A couple of years ago, some friends of mine who have a bluegrass band lost their regular gig when the owner of a rival restaurant sic'ed BMI on the place where they worked. The actual fees that would have been levied were minuscule, somewhere around $20 a night or so. The band volunteered to pay it, but the restaurant owner just decided it was too much trouble.

People like ASCAP and BMI work for YOU. YOU don't work for them.
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