Reference Help

A place where beginners can participate, ask questions, and post their views. However, beginners typically ask a lot of questions about sources, tricks, books, and so on. In fact, all magicians are interested (or should be) in the provenance of tricks, ideas, and related matters. This department will service these needs.

Postby Guest » 02/13/04 09:47 PM

Can anybody help me out with the following questions? They references aren't for anything important, but being a "credit freak", they're just a few things that have been irking me.

1. Where was Ed Marlo's handling of Charlie Miller's "A Novel Sleight", the cascade control, published?

2. Where was Carmen D'Amico's "D'Amico Spread", to display three cards as two, originally published?

3. Where did Piet Forton's one-handed color change first appear? Was it THE GEN?

4. There's a popular sequence often used in sandwich effects which I'd like to know the source of. The Marlo sandwich loading procedure is used to get a selected card between the two sandwich cards. The deck is then riffled on the table and the sandwich cards are passed through the tabled cards as they are riffled. You spread the sandwich cards as this occurs to give the illusion that you plucked the selected card from the middle of the pack. To whom does this technique belong?

5. Also, whose idea is it to have the selected card secretly in between the two sandwich cards and to spread all three cards as you slap them on the table/back of the hand/whatever, so as to produce the selection.

6. David Blaine highly popularized a simple transposition effect: A selected card is placed between two duplicate cards on top of the deck using Marlo' tilt or a bluff pass. A double lift is performed to show the selected card. That card is placed down on the table and another double lift is performed to show a supposedly indifferent card. The top card - actually the selection - is taken and shown to have transformed to the selection. Where did this originate. There is a similar effect utilizing a top change in Hugard and Braue's THE ROYAL ROAD TO CARD MAGIC (see "Rapid Transit", pp. 145-146, Dover edition), but I'd like to know the origin of the effect utilizing a duplicate card.

Thanks in advance,
Cameron
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Postby Andi » 02/14/04 03:40 PM

1. Where was Ed Marlo's handling of Charlie Miller's "A Novel Sleight", the cascade control, published?

This originally appeared in The Magic Of Charles Earle Miller (1961). In Card Finesse II, Racherbaumer mentions that Miller shared it in a letter to Fawcett Ross in 1936.

Edit: Sorry... I missed the Ed Marlo's handling bit. I'm not aware that Marlo had a handling - I hear he performed Miller's handling very well though.

2. Where was Carmen D'Amico's "D'Amico Spread", to display three cards as two, originally published?

It appeared in the Marlo/D'Amico book, Classical Foursome (1956)

4. There's a popular sequence often used in sandwich effects which I'd like to know the source of.

This bit appeared in New Tops (May 1968) within a trick called More Deuce Sandwiches - First Method. It latter appeared in M.I.N.T Volume Two.

The deck is then riffled on the table and the sandwich cards are passed through the tabled cards as they are riffled. You spread the sandwich cards as this occurs to give the illusion that you plucked the selected card from the middle of the pack. To whom does this technique belong?

I'm not really sure this can be credited to anyone. I may be wrong though, but it just seems like one of those things that everyone has been doing for years.

I know I've not answered all of your questions, but I hope that gives you a bit of a head start.

--Andi
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Postby Guest » 02/14/04 03:54 PM

Thanks Andi! All of your answers are very helpful. However, I know of Fechter's effect, which is different from the one about which I was asking. They are close, but the one I'm talking about uses a duplicate card and is often referred to as "Here Then There".

Thanks again, Andi. You've been a lot of help.

One more, if I may.

Where was Jim Swain's false overhand shuffle published?
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Postby Andi » 02/14/04 03:55 PM

Originally posted by RoatC:
However, I know of Fechter's effect, which is different from the one about which I was asking.
I noticed that as I re-read my post and edited it (just before you replied). I jumped ahead of myself on that one!

--Andi
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Postby Guest » 02/14/04 03:57 PM

No problem. Thanks again for the help.
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Postby thecardman » 02/14/04 03:59 PM

Originally posted by RoatC:
3. Where did Piet Forton's one-handed color change first appear? Was it THE GEN?
Cameron

I'll TRY to remember to ask Piet next weekend at the Blackpool Convention. Knowing him, he'll be there!

I may also ask him if he can still do it!!!

Best wishes

Peter
:)
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Postby Guest » 02/14/04 08:53 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andi Gladwin:
[QB] 1. Where was Ed Marlo's handling of Charlie Miller's "A Novel Sleight", the cascade control, published?

This originally appeared in The Magic Of Charles Earle Miller (1961). In Card Finesse II, Racherbaumer mentions that Miller shared it in a letter to Fawcett Ross in 1936.

Edit: Sorry... I missed the Ed Marlo's handling bit. I'm not aware that Marlo had a handling - I hear he performed Miller's handling very well though.

/QUOTE]


Andi, Are you referring to the unpublished notes transcribed by Frank Csuri when you mention "The Magic of Charles Earle Miller"? If so, that is where the reference by Jon comes from. Those notes ARE the correspondence from Charlie to Faucett. The other side of that correspondence, from Ross to Miller, also unpublished, formed the basis of the book "The Magic of Faucett Ross", by Ganson.

The "Card Finesse II" writeup is from MY handling of the slieght, which Charlie endorsed. I learned the original from Matt Corin, who learned it from Charlie. I showed it to Charlie when I spent a weekend with him and Jack McMillen, at Jack's house, in Santa Rosa. Charlie himself stated that he had trouble with the slieght, it required a "warm-up" period. My slight changes eliminate that problem and Charlie was enthusiastic about it.

I demonstrated it for Jon over a week that we spent together, both in Michigan as guests of Ron Bauer, and then in Chicago, where Ron and I were guests of both Don Alan and Ed Marlo. It was quite a week, all orchestrated by Ron Bauer, to the benefit of all involved. Jon also got the raw data for several other things of mine for inclusion in Card Finesse II. He wrote them up, but was rushed to press on the book (deadlines, etc.) and I was not satisfied with the descriptions, so asked Jon to hold them for another time. He agreed and withdrew all of my material, but included the Cascade, as he learned it from me, and published it, feeling that it was already in print, and a variation of Charlie's that never was properly described. I think I have this right, though it was years ago. Jon is here, and shpuld add to this in any way he sees fit.

Marlo hadn't published any handling of the move up to that point, as far as I know, though he did it with a "get-ready" that made it more difficult, in my estimation. Jon?

Charlie described it in print for the first, and only time, in Magicana, titled "A Novel Slieght". Most of the original group of guys doing this move learned it from me. That includes Rod the Hop, who does it in the "On the Road" video making the rounds these days. Hope that clears it up and helps you Cameron.

I have been doing the Forton Color change since 1969, when I found it in a Gen magazine from 1954, I believe. It fooled many knowledgeable magicians for many years, and is still relatively unknown, underused. I am not aware of it having appeared previous to the Gen article.

Best, PSC
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Postby Guest » 02/14/04 09:01 PM

Originally posted by pchosse:
Originally posted by Andi Gladwin:
[QB] [b]1. Where was Ed Marlo's handling of Charlie Miller's "A Novel Sleight", the cascade control, published?

This originally appeared in The Magic Of Charles Earle Miller (1961). In Card Finesse II, Racherbaumer mentions that Miller shared it in a letter to Fawcett Ross in 1936.

Edit: Sorry... I missed the Ed Marlo's handling bit. I'm not aware that Marlo had a handling - I hear he performed Miller's handling very well though.

/QUOTE]


Andi, Are you referring to the unpublished notes transcribed by Frank Csuri when you mention "The Magic of Charles Earle Miller"? If so, that is where the reference by Jon comes from. Those notes ARE the correspondence from Charlie to Faucett. Also, there is no description of the method there, just a tease, the idea that the card is controlled. The other side of that correspondence, from Ross to Miller, also unpublished, formed the basis of the book "The Magic of Faucett Ross", by Ganson. (If that is not what you are referring to, what IS "The Magic Of Charles Earle Miller"? I'm not aware of anything by Charlie being published in 1961.)

The "Card Finesse II" writeup is from MY handling of the slieght, which Charlie endorsed. I learned the original from Matt Corin, who learned it from Charlie. I showed it to Charlie when I spent a weekend with him and Jack McMillen, at Jack's house, in Santa Rosa. Charlie himself stated that he had trouble with the slieght, it required a "warm-up" period. My slight changes eliminate that problem and Charlie was enthusiastic about it.

I demonstrated it for Jon over a week that we spent together, both in Michigan as guests of Ron Bauer, and then in Chicago, where Ron and I were guests of both Don Alan and Ed Marlo. It was quite a week, all orchestrated by Ron Bauer, to the benefit of all involved. Jon also got the raw data for several other things of mine for inclusion in Card Finesse II. He wrote them up, but was rushed to press on the book (deadlines, etc.) and I was not satisfied with the descriptions, so asked Jon to hold them for another time. He agreed and withdrew all of my material, but included the Cascade, as he learned it from me, and published it, feeling that it was already in print, and a variation of Charlie's that never was properly described. I think I have this right, though it was years ago. Jon is here, and should add to this in any way he sees fit.

Marlo hadn't published any handling of the move up to that point, as far as I know, though he did it with a "get-ready" that made it more difficult, in my estimation. Jon?

Charlie described it in print for the first, and only time, in Magicana, titled "A Novel Slieght". Most of the original group of guys doing this move learned it from me. That includes Rod the Hop, who does it in the "On the Road" video making the rounds these days. Hope that clears it up and helps you Cameron.

I have been doing the Forton Color change since 1969, when I found it in a Gen magazine from 1954, I believe. It fooled many knowledgeable magicians for many years, and is still relatively unknown, underused. I am not aware of it having appeared previous to the Gen article.

Best, PSC [/b]
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Postby Guest » 02/14/04 09:06 PM

Thanks, Mr. Chosse. I believe it was you, on The Magic Cafe, who introduced me (indirectly) to the Forton color change.
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Postby Andi » 02/15/04 04:31 AM

Originally posted by pchosse:
Andi, Are you referring to the unpublished notes transcribed by Frank Csuri when you mention "The Magic of Charles Earle Miller"? If so, that is where the reference by Jon comes from. Those notes ARE the correspondence from Charlie to Faucett.[/QB]
Thanks for clearing that up. I've never been able to track down a copy of The Magic of Charles Earle Miller, so your post has been a great help.

Jon also mentions in Card Finesse II that it appeared in An Evening With Charlie Miller, but I've never been able to find it in the booklet, even hidden within the text. Anyone got any pointers?

--Andi
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Postby Guest » 02/15/04 11:02 AM

I'm not positive, but I thought AN EVENING WITH CHARLIE MILLER was published in 1961.
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Postby Guest » 02/17/04 07:18 PM

Originally posted by Andi Gladwin:
Originally posted by pchosse:
Andi, Are you referring to the unpublished notes transcribed by Frank Csuri when you mention "The Magic of Charles Earle Miller"? If so, that is where the reference by Jon comes from. Those notes ARE the correspondence from Charlie to Faucett.
Thanks for clearing that up. I've never been able to track down a copy of The Magic of Charles Earle Miller, so your post has been a great help.

Jon also mentions in Card Finesse II that it appeared in An Evening With Charlie Miller, but I've never been able to find it in the booklet, even hidden within the text. Anyone got any pointers?

--Andi [/QB]
No pointers necessary - it's not there!

Best, PSC
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Postby Guest » 02/23/04 02:08 PM

Since you've all been so helpful, I thought of a few more that perhaps you guys know.

7. Where was Jim Swain's variation of the optical shuffle, with the runs before and after, published?

8. Is there a known creator of the all-around square-up? Where was it first published?

9. The Erdnase break: it was first demonstrated in a left hand grip in THE EXPERT AT THE CARD TABLE [1902] (see Fig. 71, "The S.W.E. Shift", p. 134). Who applied the concept to Biddle grip (I'm thinking Marlo) and where did he publish his findings/work on the move?

10. Is there a known creator of the following one-handed cut: holding the deck in mechanic's grip, reach your thumb over to the right side of the pack and grip the upper portion. Now move the lower portion up and over the upper portion, using an action similar to that of a half pass or turnover pass. It is demonstrated on DARYL'S ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CARD SLEIGHTS and is called "The Reach-across Cut".

11. I have found three different packet switches that are all labeled as the Veeser switch/count. The first is used in Bro. Hamman's "Underground Transposition" (see KABBALA, Vol. 1, No. 7, Mar. 1972, also Kaufman's THE SECRETS OF BROTHER JOHN HAMMAN [1989], pp. 200-201). Handling an eight card packet, you right-jog the bottom card, and peel three cards into your left hand. Instead of taking the fourth card, you take all four cards above the jog as you leave the three cards in your left hand on the bottom of the right hand packet.

Next is from THE PENUMBRA, No. 2, July-Aug. 2002 (see Allan Ackerman's "One Good Winner", p. 14). It says that the Veeser concept involves taking the top and bottom cards as one during a count.

Finally, there is a switch that goes as follows: the packet of eight is held in right hand Biddle grip, with a break below five. As you take away the top card into the left hand, you also pull away the three below the break. Keep the top card separated from the lower three with a fourth finger break. Now peel the next two cards onto the left hand packet. As you peel the final card into the left hand (from a double card in the right), you steal the three cards above the break in the left hand so they end up under the right hand's card.

If you made it through that description, can you tell me where this count/switch comes from? Which of these is the Veeser count? Are they all counts by Veeser, or all part of the same count/switch? Any information on this is greatly appreciated.

12. The Frank Shields four-card display. Other than CARD COLLEGE and DARYL'S ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CARD SLEIGHTS, where can it be found? Preferrably the original source.

Thanks in advance. I appreciate any information anybody has.

Thanks again,
Cameron
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/12/04 10:18 AM

In response to your ninth question, the answer is Dai Vernon. If you read Jennings '67 you would see the Verdnase Break well applied by Jennings.
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Postby James Foster » 03/12/04 11:45 AM

Originally posted by RoatC:
12. The Frank Shields four-card display. Other than CARD COLLEGE and DARYL'S ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CARD SLEIGHTS, where can it be found? Preferrably the original source.
The Frank Shields Four-Card Display was originally published in CARD CAVALCADE FOUR by Jerry Mentzer.

Good luck on the rest of your research.

All the best,

James Foster
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Postby Guest » 03/12/04 05:31 PM

Thanks Richard and James. Richard, I have read JENNINGS '67 (which is fantastic) but all I found was text that said that Jennings saw Vernon use it first, not that Vernon invented it. The reason I was lead to Marlo was Stephen Minch's FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT PLEASURE (1982). On page 26, Mr. Minch states, "The Erdnase Break is covered by the hand from all natural angles throughout the display. Ed Marlo is to be thanked for formulating this nicety."

Thanks again, everyone.

Cameron
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/12/04 08:23 PM

I have no idea what Minch is talking about there.
The "Erdnase Break" is used but once by Erdnase in the S.W.E. Shift. From that, Vernon forumlated a way to use a similar type of break with the deck held in a natural manner by both hands.
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Postby Guest » 03/13/04 07:54 AM

8. Is there a known creator of the all-around square-up?

:whack:

allright Cameron,
we need to draw the line somewhere!

Note: aside from that (credit- freakish ) inquiry, I appreciate your quest for info.

Re: Erdnase Biddle Break
Racherbaumer wrote the foreward to that book... So, he might have 'the scoop' on the Marlo biddle-break handling. Ya out there Jon?

Re: #6
Paul Cummins has a VERY similar effect (using dupes w/ a free selection in an ambitous/transpo combo.) Check his FASDIU manuscript. Look for 'Bar None' (on p.23) Paul is very good about crediting but he doesn't mention any predecessors. He does mention Bill Simom (Effective Card Magic p.112) Paul uses a Simon 'ruse' to control the selection 2nd from top (using a sidesteal action.) This effect KILLS. I can see why Blaine picked it for tv use.

Sidenote: "Bar None" was originally published in Miesel's 'Precursor' (XXXVII 1992.)

2 cents spent,
Conn
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Postby Guest » 03/13/04 08:06 AM

Okay, Doug, I admit it, I may be a bit of a credit freak, but one wonders about these things. ;)
I'll check out the FASDIU notes ASAP. I'll also see if Racherbaumer, or maybe even Minch, has any information on the application of the Erdnase break to a packet in Biddle grip.

Thanks again for all the help.
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Postby Jim Patton » 03/13/04 10:45 AM

With reference to the updated handling of the Erdnase break: its first appearance in print occurred in LJ's effect: "Look!...An Illusion".
This in his cover issue of Genii magazine in the early seventies....
Incidentally, this effect was seminal in kick starting the small packet effect craze of this era.....
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Postby Guest » 05/01/04 08:12 PM

13. I'm looking for the source of the following move: push the top card of the deck over with your left thumb, until about 1/4 inch of the left side of the card is still in contact with the right side of the deck. The card is held from beneath with your right fingers and above by your left thumb, almost pinched. The left thumb now digs in a bit more and applies pressure at the extreme left edge of the card. This causes the card to flip over like a book. It flips face up onto the back of the left thumb, which moves out of the way to allow the card to fall flush.

14. Now that Mr. Patton has answered #9, I would like to know which 1970s issue of Genii was devoted to Jennings' magic.
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 05/01/04 10:44 PM

Originally posted by RoatC:
[QB] 13. ... It flips face up onto the back of the left thumb, which move
The Cornelius "Spring Set" I believe.

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Postby Guest » 05/01/04 10:50 PM

Thanks for the reply, Chris, but the move about which I am speaking is not the Cornelius technique.

Here's a video of the move I mean.

http://www.obsolite.com/magic/turnover.avi
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Postby Craig Matsuoka » 05/02/04 05:33 PM

Re. #13:

Jean Hugard published something similar in Card Manipulations Series #4 (see p.94 of Dover edition). It's described as a secret reversal technique there.

I don't know if Hugard is the earliest source of the idea.
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Postby Guest » 05/03/04 06:50 PM

Thanks for all the help, guys.

One more right now.

15. There is an excellent triple false cut described in Bannon's Smoke and Mirrors (1991, p. 95). There, he credits Frank Thompson, and says that he doesn't think the cut has been published. It has been published, though, because Reinhard Mueller tracked down the cut to a book of Frank Garcia's called Super Subtle Card Miracles (1973, p. 143), where it is attributed to Frank Thompson. From the appendix, "F.T. Cut: This is so named for Frank Thompson who was kind enough to allow me to include it here. I have added only the final cut to the table."

I've heard, however, on one of the Malone tapes, that this same cut belonged to Ed Marlo. On Bill Malone's On the Loose, Vol. 1, he says, "...false cut belongs to Ed Marlo. I think it must have been his favorite false cut, cause everytime I was with him, he would always sit there and he'd be doing this cut over and over again, and it took me a really long time to relize he was doing a false cut." On Bill Malone Tips Sam the Bellhop, he refers to the cut as "Marlo's favorite false cut."

I was just wondering if anyone knew whose creation this fabulous cut actually is.
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Postby Guest » 05/04/04 07:12 PM

Originally posted by RoatC:
14. Now that Mr. Patton has answered #9, I would like to know which 1970s issue of Genii was devoted to Jennings' magic.
I found my answer for this one. In case any of you were wondering (which I highly doubt), it was in Genii, Vol. 29, No. 6, February 1965.

16. Marlo's book break and kick count: any idea where either of these first made their appearance?

17. Any information on the history of the classic force?

18. In one of the Kaufman & Company books (Jennings '67, I believe), Richard Kaufman credits a technique for attaining a break below the top card of the deck to Robert-Houdin. You simply push the card over a fraction of an inch, just enough to allow your pinky to slip below the card. Where was the first published (in English)?

You guys are excellent, by the way. Thanks so much for all the help. The only questions not yet answered are 4, 5, 7, 10, and 15.

Thanks again,

Cameron Roat
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Postby Guest » 05/09/04 09:57 PM

I've answered a few more of my own questions, so if any of you were wondering, here are the answers.

5. A very similar idea appears in Marlo's Magazine, Volume 3 (1979, p. 73).

9. Marlo published the application of the Erdnase break in conjunction with the Veeser count (Biddle grip) in The Hierophant, No. 4, Summer 1970 in a Jon Racherbaumer effect called "Almost Making It." The 1965 Jennings reference obviously predates this one.

16. The kick count first appeared in Marlo's Magazine, Volume 2 (1977, p. 41).
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