Marketing Yourself

Post topics about the business side of magic.

Postby Guest » 01/25/07 11:31 AM

I've seen plenty of advertisements for books and videos that are supposed to teach you how to market yourself as a magician. The only one that I actually looked at was Jay Sankey's "The Real Work". While I found it useful, I realize that there is alot more to the marketing side of things that there is on Sankey's tape.
I'm looking to sell myself as a close-up magician. Please, when recommending books, don't just say, "This is a good book." Tell me why
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Postby Guest » 01/25/07 01:03 PM

/www.thedean.net/

This site is a good resource for marketing and information on money making with magic.
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Postby Guest » 01/25/07 01:51 PM

Get Professional Close-Up by Leo Behnke. Why? Because it is written specifically for close-up performers by a professional with decades of experience.

You might also want to explore ebooks on marketing in magic .

Best,
Chris....
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Postby Guest » 01/25/07 08:46 PM

Thank you
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Postby Guest » 01/26/07 09:39 AM

Your magic is a product. You are going to have to learn to sell it. There are far better experts in the field of sales than any magician. An excellent first book on sales is The Sales Advantage by J. Oliver Crom and Michael Crom. It is also available on CD and is the "textbook" for the Dale Carnegie Sales Course. I took this course over twenty years ago and it has been the foundation of my tradeshow business ever since. Once you are comfortable with the material in that book, you should check out Tom Hopkins' books and audio products for additional advanced techniques. Good luck.
Mark
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Postby Guest » 05/25/07 05:52 AM

As an old Marketing professor (university MBA Program) and consultant, the first thing to remember is that:

The purpose of marketing is to make selling Superfluous

Starting with the product is starting at the wrong end.


Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
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Postby NCMarsh » 05/25/07 12:48 PM

The best resources I have encountered:

The Little Red Book of Sales Geoffrey Gitomer

The Little Black Book of Connections Geoffrey Gitomer

How to Get Your Point Across in 30 Seconds or Less Milo Frank

Confidential Booking Report Dick Ryan

The Complete Guide to Restaurant and Walk-Around Magic Kirk Charles

Negotiating Higher Performance Fees Michael Ammar

Get your hands on as much information as possible, but know that the most valuable lessons you're going to learn will come from your experience.

You're going to make a lot of mistakes. As long as you learn from them, you're making progress.

I can't agree with Mark more...when I first started, I was into books written for magicians because I thought that our business was somehow unique...it isn't...

Check the audio books at your local library...free, and you can be learning about sales while you're driving around doing errands

Remember that being a magician is really taking on two jobs...you are an entertainer...and you are a full-time booking agent...you should be doing just as much work on the business end as you would expect someone you were paying a full-time salary to to be doing...and, you need to be putting a heckuva lot of time and energy into rehearsing and developing material...they are both full-time jobs

The biggest mistake I made early on was relaxing after a success...My first year, after I landed a gig performing at a dinner theater and started a relationship with an agent who got me reasonably steady work...I thought that I was all set: I had my website, I had an agent, and I was getting flight time while being in front of potential buyers...reality is -- while I am really glad I was getting the experience of performing every night -- there is so much more that I could have done during the day...

Set up your office space and set up a 9-5 work schedule for yourself...your first job is to set up a steady performing venue -- restaurant/what-have-you...once you have that base (and it is best to have two so that if something falls through with one of them you still have somewhere to perform publicly while looking for another venue)...once you have that set, your days get spent making calls to arrange appointments (see the Dick Ryan book), giving presentations, attending networking events, writing your newsletters etc., etc.

Good Luck

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Postby Guest » 05/25/07 05:10 PM

Want To Know A Guaranteed Way To Skyrocket Your Success in Magic Provided You Have An Act?

Of Course You Do...Who Doesn't?

Here are the BIG secrets:

1) Read Nathan's Post Again!
2) Read It Again!

Here's one more secret: Study Direct Response Marketing. Learn it and apply it. If you do you will work -but you have to have an act that appeals to the people. (None of this hit-n-run [censored] -paying audiences want professional performers!)


Here is a cool online resource that you can use. It's filled with examples of some of the best marketing and advertising in history: http://www.hardtofindads.com/home

Click around the site and learn. Read the copy and think of ways that you can apply it to your yellow pages ad or your promo package or local media outlets, etc...Study the Marketing and Sales techniques of the old masters. It's a cheap and easy way to get a great education in Money Making...hmmm I wonder if there are any old promo kits for magicians available anywhere.

Reading Suggestions
Uncommon Marketing Techniques by Jeffery Dobkin

The Ultimate Marketing Plan by Dan Kennedy

The Copywriter's Handbook by Bob Bly

The Sales Bible by Jeffery Gitomer (and everything else he has out there!)

All of this stuff is great and makes money!

Two Cents Spent

Elliot G


PS If you have an Irv Wiener Promo Package that you would like to sell please email me elliotmagic@optonline.net.
I'm looking for the one that he sold directly to magicians for around $8.00
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Postby Guest » 05/27/07 09:30 PM

I'm going to have to repeat Elliot's post (#2) about The Dean's List. Hands down, one of the best online resources for marketing.

The people there are what make it so valuable; so many creative minds give so freely and helping each other upwards.

http://www.thedean.net/forum/

Scott
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Postby Bob Sanders » 01/26/09 02:17 PM

Don't be ashamed to hire a pro to market you. But also know the difference between being professional and "available".

Paying one is an investment. Paying the other is just spending.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz
AmazedWiz@yahoo.com
SilkMagic@DoveLite.com

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Postby Jack Turk » 02/02/09 11:46 AM

Lots of great advice here already, specifically
related to learning direct-response marketing --
which, for the vast majority of us who aren't
big name, prime-time conjurers, offers the best
bang-4-buck results in attracting leads.

And I adore Dean Hankey and all the folks that
offer wisdom on his forum.

Nevertheless...

All the books, all the forums, all the marketing
courses, all the everything -- will come to naught
if you don't apply what you learn and go out and
do something.

Learning about sales and marketing is the fun part.

Doing something is where it gets tough, because
you have to accept that a significant percentage
of what you're doing is going to fail.

It's like performing. You can run through the
routine over and over until you have it nailed.
But you have no idea how it will play until you
actually present it to an audience.

--j
"59 Ways to Recession Proof Your Entertainment Business -- FREE!"
http://GetLeadsLikeCrazy.com
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Postby C Howell » 05/08/09 01:13 PM

I agree with a comment above that if you want to get good at marketing don't just ask magicians who talk about it, but look at the experts across a wider range of expertise. You'll get much more original ideas if you look further afield.

One book that really gave me a lot was "9 Lies that are holding your business back". Chandler and Beckford are the authors and I know they have a track record when coaching clients one-on-one of doing REAL magic at turning their businesses around. The book has lots of ideas and shatters many myths about what marketing is all about. Practical advice and measurable results.

Enjoy!

Cheers,
Christopher

London Corporate Magicians
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Postby close up dude » 07/09/09 05:28 PM

Why is it that Dave Dee is left out in this thread?
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Postby Eric Anderson » 07/09/09 10:23 PM

Hello

You must leverage each show for all it's worth. Getting the show is just the beginning. What you do after you block out the date on your calendar will produce the real money in your magic business.

When the marketing is done right your would be client is already sold before they even pick up the phone to call you. Get real familiar with books on Direct Response Marketing. A few good ones have already been mentioned.

Eric Anderson
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Postby NCMarsh » 07/10/09 01:08 AM

I'm not an expert and still learning a heckuva lot, but I am very dubious of direct response mailing...it may just be the particular group of performers that I talk to about these things, but the only performers I've heard rave about mailing are people selling information to performers about direct-response mailing (my suspicion is that they're selling mailing info. b/c it's a heckuva lot easier than selling info on, say, cold-calling)

A typical return rate, from Madison Ave. copy-writing pros, is less than 1%...send out one thousand letters, get -- maybe -- 10 people requesting more information...of those 10 people, how many will end up booking shows? The postage (if its a first class letter) cost you $440...

Basic ways people make a decision to book you:

a. they've seen you work, they love you, they have an event they can picture you at, and they can afford you (easiest)
b. they have a friend/colleague who raves about you
c. they agree to let you demo, and like what they see
c. they see video
d. (lowest percentage) they only see promotional materials

My personal goal, at the moment, is to grow the people in groups a.) and b.) as much as possible...I don't have to "sell" them, and I don't like "selling"...but, even with the people in these groups, you have to keep your name in front of them...

So the process -- at least this is my current view of it -- is:

1. What's my market?
  • What are the shows YOU enjoy doing, and where you seem to fit in best?
  • Who -- as a group -- books these shows (examples: Moms, marketing directors, HR, Member Services...etc.)?

2. How do I get my work in front of them? Where do they hang out? Are there associations they -- as a group -- belong to?

From there: go where they are...and bring with you: a.) social intelligence/tact b.)the ability to talk intelligently and compellingly about what you do and c.) a knock-them-on-the-floor piece of magic that lasts less than 30 seconds, and have up to twenty minutes of strong material that fits in a wallet for when they grab a group of friends to watch more...

Have a system in place for following up

I have a friend who makes a far better living than I do as a performer, and all of his new business comes from hanging out in upscale bars/lounges and casually performing as a customer...he also has a lot of social intelligence, and knows how to do this right (I mention this because I've seen it done badly)...

Denny and Lee's lecture notes rock...as does the Bill Herz book, the Kramer book, and the Dick Ryan book....

"People love to buy, but they hate to be sold" Jeffrey Gitomer...

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Postby Ray Eden » 07/10/09 05:23 AM

I starting using email marketing which is followed up by a phone call a few months ago. I also have a girl working with me who does cold calling, which generates shows for me.

I would agree with the previous comments if only direct mailing is being done. I believe there is also a rule of thumb that states that a potential client must be contacted between five or seven times before the information sinks in. So... if you're doing a single mailing, it is most likely going to be quite unfruitful.

Nothing beats the referral... I find the email/direct mailing is a good way to establish a core client base that will launch a larger client base via referrals. Once the referrals start rolling in, you can stop licking or stamps. :-)

Just another opinion.
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Postby mrgoat » 07/10/09 05:54 AM

Permission Marketing. Seth Godin.

No more is needed.

Really.

Interrupting people with ads, spam, horrible cold calls, or DM is *so* 20 years ago. Of the fraction of a % that book, how many have you REALLY pissed off?

Much better to turn strangers into friends and THEN try and turn friends into customers.
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Postby Ray Eden » 07/10/09 06:09 AM

Actually... we've gotten quite a lot of performances from what we're doing, and the referrals we get produce even more. It's important to remember that I'm not living in the United States anymore, but in Finland. Things do operate different here, but they work in U.S. of A. too.

And... cold calling maybe 20 years old, as you state, but its still a system that is used by many, many business. I get several calls a week. There's actually been times that I appreciated the call because they were selling me something I needed.

And companies still send reps out to business (in person) trying to generate more business. Magic is show BUSINESS, which means in order to get business, one must use business strategies.

As I stated in my first posting... I think its a good idea to get rid of direct mailing, cold calling, etc, but it is a good tool for making people aware that you exist in order to create a core business clientele. We booked a performance last week that came from a cold call made several months ago. So... I did make a friend, not an enemy.
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Postby mrgoat » 07/10/09 08:36 AM

Ray Eden wrote:Actually... we've gotten quite a lot of performances from what we're doing, and the referrals we get produce even more. It's important to remember that I'm not living in the United States anymore, but in Finland. Things do operate different here, but they work in U.S. of A. too.

And... cold calling maybe 20 years old, as you state, but its still a system that is used by many, many business. I get several calls a week. There's actually been times that I appreciated the call because they were selling me something I needed.

And companies still send reps out to business (in person) trying to generate more business. Magic is show BUSINESS, which means in order to get business, one must use business strategies.

As I stated in my first posting... I think its a good idea to get rid of direct mailing, cold calling, etc, but it is a good tool for making people aware that you exist in order to create a core business clientele. We booked a performance last week that came from a cold call made several months ago. So... I did make a friend, not an enemy.



You miss my point entirely, Sir.

Human beings do not like cold calls.

If you generate one booking from, say, 5000 calls, you have pissed off 4999 people.

So, yes, you may have made one friend, but how many enemies did you make in the process?

Interuption marketing used to work. 50 years ago. Factories built stuff, they bought TV ads, and print ads and people bought the stuff.

That simply doesn't work anymore.

Marketing is now getting people to promote for you. To get 'sneezers' who willingly tell others how cool you are.

I do that for apple all the time. Unpaid. But I love Apple so much I do it.

Do you think a friend of mine will be persuaded by a slick TV ad, a piece of DM, a cold call or me telling him to get a mac?

I'm glad it's working for you, but I think you're missing the big picture.

You can download part of seth's book for free. Read it. I urge you.

http://www.sethgodin.com/permission/

and you can get the whole of the ideavirus for free

http://www.digitalproductreporter.com/u ... nload.html

"Alas, nobody has a clue how to build a farm for ideas, or even a factory for ideas. We recognize that ideas are driving the economy, ideas are making people rich and most important, ideas are changing the world. Even though were clueless about how to best organize the production of ideas, one thing is clear: if you can get people to accept and embrace and adore and cherish your ideas, you win. You win financially, you gain power and you change the world in which we live."

Ooh, look a successful author giving away his work for free...
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Postby Ray Eden » 07/10/09 09:19 AM

I don't think I miss your point... I simply don't agree with you. Two different things. But... I'll continue getting performances the way I do, and you continue the way you do. No problem.
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Postby Eric Anderson » 07/10/09 09:46 AM

Hello

There are a lot of ways to be right. Some more effective then others. Direct Response Marketing is way more involved then direct mail. When Direct Response is done correctly it is permission based marketing.

The best thing about some of the comments it appears that people are taking action and doing something. So many people fail because they refuse to get of their butts and get out there.

Which reminds me!

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Postby mrgoat » 07/10/09 12:05 PM

Ray Eden wrote: I don't think I miss your point... I simply don't agree with you. Two different things. But... I'll continue getting performances the way I do, and you continue the way you do. No problem.


So, you think people like getting cold calls?

Wow, yes we really really really to disagree. But I would defend to the death your right to think that people like getting marketing calls.

Here is a British man getting a cold call from his telephone service provider. I think he may agree with me and not you! :)

NOT SAFE FOR WORK, EXTREMELY STRONG LANGUAGE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAbcEcjHXVg
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Postby mrgoat » 07/10/09 12:07 PM

Eric Anderson wrote:Hello

There are a lot of ways to be right. Some more effective then others. Direct Response Marketing is way more involved then direct mail. When Direct Response is done correctly it is permission based marketing.


Sorry. I misread early and thought I read Direct Marketing, not Direct Response Marketing. Obviously, that is about as permission based as you can jolly well get!
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