How to make Money By Magic!

Post topics about the business side of magic.

Postby Guest » 07/12/02 06:54 AM

I thought I would contribute by giving this course a quick plug.

If you would like to make money from magic, there is no better course than 'How to Make Money by Magic'. It is probably the only marketing resource you will ever need, and it covers the A to Z of how to make money from magic.

Don't struggle by doing it the hard way!
Take a look at the website: www.moneybymagic.co.uk
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Postby Mitch Dutton » 07/12/02 08:38 AM

Well dang! We get a new Forum slot and the VERY FIRST post says all that ever be said about the topic! You can't beat that! --Mitch
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Postby Guest » 07/12/02 08:53 AM

Sorry, it probably came over wrongly. I should have said this is ONE resource that is very helpful to magicians. There are of course, others, and this forum will hopefully encourage others to come forward...
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Postby Guest » 07/12/02 07:00 PM

I don't think there is any possibility of confusion.

"there is no better course than 'How to Make Money by Magic'. It is probably the only marketing resource you will ever need"

How can that be confused with your second statement?:

"This is ONE resource that is very helpful to magicians. There are of course, others"

Which one is it?

I'd just like to know what you're comparing it to, and what your qualifications are.
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Postby Guest » 07/12/02 07:17 PM

Mark,

With all due respect, if you read carefully, I did not claim that this was the only course about marketing for magic, however I did claim that it was one valuable resource for magicians, and in my opinion the most useful of the resources I have come across myself that are in the marketplace.

Let's leave it at that shall we, because ultimately anyone can find fault with the way something is written or phrased if they so desired, but is it really productive at the end of the day?

There are numerous testimonials on the website from magicians about the course, I have been in the business for 21 years, and the course contains input from many of the great magicians of the last 10 years or so, who contributed their own gems of knowledge about how they made a living from magic.

I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression or sounded ambiguous.
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Postby Guest » 07/12/02 09:22 PM

Wow! The first post and its already an argument! I think this is a great idea for the forum. It is hard to discuss ideas with people in your area as they are competition.

I wonder....what sort of marketing ideas do people use in general?
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Postby Guest » 07/12/02 10:08 PM

I'd like to read about anybody that has ever bought into one of these marketing scams.. er schemes.
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Postby Guest » 07/12/02 10:44 PM

Two thoughts: first, I don't buy this anonymous "guru" stuff on the site. If I'm going to pay money for a course on anything like this, I want to know who it's coming from. Second, from the tone of your post, it sounds like you may be directly involved in the course. Is this the case, in which case it colors your enthusiastic plug for it, or are you honestly an unrelated, non-compensated third party?
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Postby Guest » 07/12/02 11:34 PM

Well I hope it works out for you, however to become successful in magic and make a proper income does not require a course to do so. I have aquired my success from imagaination, skill, and most of all expierence! I would be extremely impressed if someone could simply teach me this. I am not bashing your course nor am I saying that your claims are not true, I am simply just stating my point of view on these "schools" of magic. Good Luck with your teachings! :)

P.
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 12:22 AM

Business advice in any field can always be useful. I get advice from other magicians quite regularly and I now get almost double the fee and my customers are far happier.

In fact, I was just reading an article in December 2000 Magic magazine about customer loyalty that was great.

The best bit of advice I got about bargaining was to never lower your price. Always add to your show. If they are worried about the price then promise them some special illusions or to include an effect with their company name.

What I want to know now is how to get regular restaurant gigs.....
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 02:04 AM

Nicholas,

I appreciate your reasonable, cons constructive tructive comments, and I am happy to suggest some ideas for you that may help.

I know several magicians who all use different techniques to start working in restaurants, but generally the following approach seems to be work well:

Eat out occasionally at restaurants when you can, and get to know some of the staff at the locations you are interested in. Find out what type of customers frequent the place, what kind of ambience it has, and what the pace of service is like. Make sure you are happy with these elements before proceeding.

There is no point trying to be employed somewhere that is so hectic you feel constantly under pressure (unless you like that). Also, bear in mind that your main selling point is that you will bring more business in, so if you choose somewhere that already has plenty of business you are needlessly making life difficult for yourself.

Drop in to the restaurant at a quiet time such as in the morning or afternoon and take a few tricks and perhaps a magic book with you. Whilst you are seated, practice some routines and the staff are bound to ask what you are doing, they are naturally inquisitive. Tell them you are a magician, and show them a trick when invited (they will always ask).

You may well find that one of the staff is the owner or manager anyway, but if not, ask the staff if you can show a trick to the manager. Perform a powerful effect that you know inside out, and many times the manager will ask you outright if you would like to perform in the restaurant. If they do not, dont push the issue at that time.

On the next occasion, speak to the manager again, and demonstrate a trick that you might typically use in the restaurant environment. By this time you have built up more of a rapport with them, and you can explain that you provide professional tableside magic for restaurant guests.

Be sure to focus on the benefits to the restaurant as quickly as possible. Reason with the owner as to how your service will increase their repeat business substantially. Let them know that you assist in keeping customers happy all evening, whilst they are waiting to be seated, after ordering, and whilst waiting for the bill to arrive.

If the owner is a sensible business person, they will agree to hire you, but if not, just move on to the next one, you can be sure that someone will want to benefit from your service.

If the owner is slightly sceptical, offer to perform one night for an hour or so, free of charge, on the condition that if proved successful you will be hired regularly.

If the owner agrees to a long-term booking, give him a choice of two days out of perhaps three specified. So, you might say you are available on Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday, and what two days would they like? Do this even if you are available every day, as it doesnt look good if you say you are available anytime! Also, your services will have greater value if you only appear several times a week. It also leaves you open to opportunities at other restaurants, or to take other bookings.

Dont expect to get a restaurant booking on your first try as not everyone will see the benefits as clearly as you do. But keep persisting and your efforts will pay off, thats guaranteed.

In the course there is a complete module on how to get and keep restaurant gigs. Also, I highly reccomend Kirk Charles book 'The complete guide to restaurant magic.
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 02:26 AM

Andrew,
Please do not take any offense to this but I have to agree with Andy in a way that I find the whole "Guru" thing bizzare in the fact that you can't mention his name. I don't beleive that this is a good marketing tool which is why some of the previous responses may have been negative. You are trying to sell them a technique to make money yet your own technique to make money from magic dosen't seem solid because of the "Guru". I hope you understand what I am trying to say, and please do not take offense to this, it is merely just an observation from a potential consumer in the magic community.
Best of luck with your course!
:)

P.
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 02:32 AM

I understand what you are saying but I don't have much choice about it. I have qualifications in marketing, which is why I decided to compile the course over the last 4 years or so, but the 'guru' has specifically asked not to be mentioned by name, because he is a very high profile magician, and does not want or need the limelight from his input in the course.

Incidentally, the picture on the site is just a representation, and is not representative of the actual magician. He is a household name, and many members of the forum will know who it is if they know him personally.

Hope that helps explain things a little more.
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 03:02 AM

Thats really too bad that you are unable to use his/her name for your advertising, I think that would help seal the sales for you. "The Guru" may do more harm than good until the final sale has been made. Aside from the responses on this board, what has been the rest of your feedback been like from your advertising? Also this type of advertising may seem to work better on non-magicians, because to us(magicians) alot of it is the name. Look how many 'Misled' gimmicks were sold and even purchased by lay men once it was put on the shelves with a picture of D.C. on it! I know you don't have much choice now, your product is already made, but perhaps 'The Guru' can be persuaded some how, to allow you to use the name for advertising. For instance I have recently marketed a new effect that is an add on to a Fantasio Vanishing cane, and had Fantasio's full backing behind it. It is doing well, and it is partly because he approves of the product and allows me to mention that. I have to admit he is a household name amoung magicians, and if its good enough for Fantasio its good enough for any serious performer. Its just too bad you can't provide a testimonial from the Guru as the actual magician to support the product so we as consumers know that its worth buying.
:confused:
P.
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 03:50 AM

Peter, your comments are really interesting, and I respect your constructive input. This is something that I had not realised, and I am going to review this matter again with the magician in question, and see if he will reconsider 'going public'.

The problem has been that, in the past, where he has promoted magic items, he got fed up of people telling him a better way of doing a particular trick, even though he had nothing to prove because he was already successful. I can understand his point of view that it can be irritating when other magicians purely try and prove themselves as 'better' than an established performer. For that reason, he also does not attend many conventions.

It's a good point you make though, and I will be reviewing it, as I say, quite carefully, because it makes a lot of sense.
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 04:15 AM

Andrew,

I know what you are saying, unfortunately there are some magicians out there that try and upstage others. There are also those who believe that someone like David Copperfield has nothing on them and thinks that if they had his money they could do and be just as successful as him. However there is alot more to it than that! These are the ones that seem to bash these magicians like Copperfield, Blaine, and Burton who have made it big! I think alot of it comes from jealousy. Most of these guys started out in very similair financial situations, yet still made it!
I can also understand why he doesn't attend many conventions anymore, I too have had my share of bad experiences when I have attended conventions in the past. However Im not sure if your Guru is receiving any royalties or not on your product, however that may be an insitive for him to add his name. Or maybe you could put your own name on the product and just have him back it up with a comment or two in the ad. Maybe focus on the iformation rather than where it came from. Anyway let me know how it you make out.

:)
P.
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 04:19 AM

Peter, you hit the nail on the head about jealousy, I couldn't agree with you more. Best wishes.
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Postby Mitch Dutton » 07/13/02 08:14 AM

I think it's clear from reading the promotional copy that this 'course' is designed for sale to the general public. The many claims that 'some magic is too hard' and that you need only 'learn these simple and easy but closely guarded magic secrets' and even you can become a well paid professional magician. Bunk and hooey, I say.

This forum should be used by individuals to post ideas and methods they want to share with others. Anyone in business for him/herself can use all the help they can get, particularly in sales and marketing!

That's my take on it anyway... --Mitch
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Postby Richard James » 07/14/02 06:53 AM

I have enjoyed reading the comments to Andrews original post, but have been surprised at some of the negative comments posted by those that have never even seen the course!

Anyway, to allow everyone to make a better judgement of the course, I can do no better that send you to a review of the course that I did more than 2 months ago!

Have a look at THIS LINK , where you will find a previous discussion on Andrews course, and find a VERY comprehensive review that I did for the first 6 Modules.

You'll also notice that Andrew has since 'fixed' several of the points I mention in the review. All that information can also be found at the above link.

At the very least, it will leave you better informed on what Andrew has to offer.
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Postby Guest » 07/14/02 08:12 AM

I was not expecting such a reaction to a simple invitation for magicians to take a look at the course, if they are interested in the marketing aspects of making a living from magic.

Yes, the course is available to anyone who has access to the internet, but the reality is that they have to find it first, which takes a measure of genuine interest and effort!

I can tell you that the vast majority of subscribers are already magicians, because only magicians or those with a serious interest in magic will spend the time, effort, and money needed to partake in the course.

Whilst it's true that some magicians inherently have the necesary qualities to make a living from magic, I would suggest that many others seek and benefit from a helping hand in the form of ideas, inspiration, encouragement, direction, and tried and tested approaches to different markets.

If you speak to most professional magicians, they often state that they had a mentor in magic, someone who guided them along the right track, and that's what the course endeavours to do for those who do not currently have such personal help on a one to one basis.

Lastly, taking another aspect that was mentioned in a previous post, one of the points that the course tries to get across is that you do not have to be expert at sleight of hand in order to be successful.

Just to clarify this, as an example, magic clubs are full of members who are the 'worlds greatest' at particular sleights. However, they might not have a clue about how to present the sleight in a way that is interesting to watch or that would make them money! It's not to say that's wrong, because many magicians are content with that, that's what they want. But there is also an attitude that you can't make money from magic if you are not expert at sleights. That is simply not true.

It's true that the promotional website and marketing info was presented according to the 'lowest common denomniator' of magician, but I make no apology for that. If magicians want the resource it is there for them, and if they don't, I still wish them every success of course!

Richard James independent review of the first half of the course, was a fair summary, and as he said, most of the areas he picked up on that could have been improved, have been acted on, and improved upon now.

Now, perhaps we can invite other members of the forum to share some of the marketing strategies that they use, for our benefit...
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Postby Guest » 07/14/02 11:31 AM

I think the problem with the whole "Guru" approach is that it suggests to a prospective buyer that this person is ashamed of the product and doesn't wish to have his name associated with it. It also smacks of the whole masked magician thing. Understand,I'm not saying this is so,I'm just saying one might get that impression.Good luck. :)
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Postby Guest » 07/14/02 11:07 PM

I guess everyone is quite polite, or did I overlook the post in which it's pointed out that Andrew, in his first post, plugs his own course without identifying himself as connected to it in any way?

Pretty questionable, Andrew, in my opinion.
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Postby Guest » 07/15/02 12:00 AM

Yup, I mentioned that as well, but Andrew seems to have not bothered responding to that point, instead just defending the anonymous "guru" thing (which I actually feel is the lesser of the two negatives I pointed out).

This reminds me of a young acquaintance on another messageboard who just posted an a plug for Dave Dee's new course including a link to buy it through his associate account, and then clearly stated that he was not a salesman for Dave. Oops. (He did later clarify that he wasn't interpreting things quite as clearly as the rest of us did, and apologized, for the record.)
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Postby Guest » 07/15/02 04:03 AM

Oh dear, oh dear!
Again, I'm sorry if anyone got the impression that I was not involved in the course. However, when someone reads the posts, they would have have been left in no doubt as to my involvemenet! Anyone can see that I did respond throughout the postings, for example by the fact that I said "I decided to compile the course over the last 4 years or so".

Just beacuse someone does not use the exact phraseology that several members require, it does not mean they are trying to hide anything! I believe any reasonable person reading the posts would understand that I am involved in the course.
If I had said 'I've produced the

Please don't get bogged down in picking holes in details that don't relate to the point. And to jusge a product without even having evaluated it personally is not acceptable.

With all due respect, the individuals who posted negative comments have not offered anything constructive themselves to help other members...
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Postby Guest » 07/15/02 04:14 AM

Gremlins in the posting! I started to say:

If I had said 'I've produced this course...' in the first post then I would have still received criticism from a few members, so really it doesn't matter how it's phrased, a few people will always pick up on something!

I have explained the points that were raised, and as with all these things, the course will be of interest to some, and not to others. My intention was merely to highlight an awareness of it's availability for those that are interested.
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Postby Guest » 07/15/02 02:20 PM

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ :o
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Postby Guest » 07/15/02 04:42 PM

Let's move on to something more constructive...
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