Marketing from Pros?

Post topics about the business side of magic.

Postby Guest » 02/14/03 08:05 PM

Are there any professionals or amateurs with marketing techniques, tips, or recommendations they care to share?

There is a scarcity of marketing info. out there with some exceptions most of it seems scattered through out books or periodicals.

I've read the following: "Hustle, Hustle"-Joel Bauer, Dave Dees' sytem, "How To Master The Art Of Selling" -Tom Hopkins and many others that escape me .

I realize this is a huge subject and this may not be the best forum for its' discussion.

If those that wish to answer can simply write what they think are requirements for various markets other than a good show.

Specifically I'm interested in the following:

1)Trade shows

2)Cruise ships

3)Corporate meetings/sales meetings

Any help or suggestions are appreciated.

Best regards,

Pete
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Postby TheDean. » 02/15/03 07:00 PM

Pete,

There is a TON of great marketing info out there and allot of it is absolutely FREE... a TON!

Here is JUST ONE "The Dean's List, Your University of Success!" with a links page that will take your to over 35,000 links and resources just for performers and this list needs updating cause there is waaaay more out there now!

- http://www.thedean.net/studyhall

There are dedicated sections on quite a few boards that have incredible information on the subject of personal and business development and again, it's all free!

- http://www.TheDean.net/studentunion
- http://www.TheMagicEdge.com
- http://www.MagicCoach.com
- http://www.kjmagic.com/forum
- http://www.Magi2motivate.com
- http://www.Online-Visions.com
- www.TheMagicCafe.com
- http://www.m-a-g-i-c.com/business/salesmktg.htm

These are just SOME of the "Magic Marketing" links that you'll find around the net with PLENTY more where that came from... PLENTY!

ALL of your question are answered IN DETAIL on "just" these sites alone...Fish around through THIS very site and you'll get the answers to MOST of the questions you asked about right here at the Genii marketing section. It ALL THERE and there's NOT a lack of information on this subject in any way, shape or form.

I hope that'll get ya' started!

I am at your service and in His service,
Deano
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Posts: 58
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Postby Guest » 02/16/03 05:40 AM

Dean,

Thank you for your help.

Pete
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Postby Guest » 02/16/03 08:50 AM

Dear Pete,
Best of luck in your marketing efforts, especially in these extremely challenging economic times! The best business decision I ever made was to invest in the Dale Carnegie Sales Course. If you are in (or near) a major city, you can probably find one. The Carnegie Sales Course led me to further study and motivation (which you'll need until the economy improves!) using tapes (now probably CD's) from Nightingale Conant, which you can easily find on the web. Drew Carey also cites Nightingale Conant as a vital resource in his bio.
Having been a full time tradeshow performer for nearly 15 years, the advice I most often give is, "Don't look to magicians to improve your salesmanship, look to professional salespeople and sales trainers." Oh, and re-read the Hopkins book, it's one of the best! Again, good luck.
Mark Phillips
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Postby Guest » 02/17/03 09:40 PM

Mark,

Thanks for the encouragement. I enjoyed the articles you and Karen Berris contributed to in the spring 2002 issue of Magic Menu.

If you find yourself in Dallas at any shows please let me know.

Pete
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Postby Guest » 02/21/03 07:59 AM

Will keep you posted on any shows in Dallas. Nothing scheduled now, but I used to get there a lot, the convention center was very busy in the 90's, I even did some shows at the InfoMart. If your schedule allows, and you really are interested in tradeshows, you might consider trying to attend as many exhibitions as possible. If you are going to try to sell your services as a tradeshow magician, you should do as much research on them as you can. The more you know about the real world of tradeshows, the better equiped you will be to sell yourself. I remember walking the aisles when I first moved to New York and seeing Paul Gertner, Eddie Tullock and the late, great Mike Rogers work. Even not seeing my idols, it was a great education in what tradeshows were and how they worked.
Mark
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Postby Guest » 02/21/03 06:38 PM

Best advice I ever got...

*Don't think of magic as a job. Think of it as a business where you are the product.

*When bargaining, NEVER offer to lower your price. Always offwr them something EXTRA for the same price . (if you are dodgy you add in things you were going to any way)

*Put your name on everything appropriate.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 02/26/03 10:35 PM

I have found that in my area direct mail is the best thing. It is extremely important though, that you realize one single letter to a potential client will not win you the booking. Repetition will do that. 15 days after your first mailing it is time to send another. Anyone with any marketing sense will tell you that 5 letters sent to 100 potential clients is more effective than 1 letter sent 1 time to 500 potential clients. Of course if you have already been contacted, and booked by any individual client you stop there. I repeat this every 15 days up to three letters. After the third wait 20 days then send a post card, possibly with a special offer. A good example of this is when I am marketing daycare shows I have the cards printed with redeem this card for free balloon animals with purchase of 1/2 hour magic show. Truth is the extra 6.00 and 15- 20 minutes of my time I spend is well worth closing the deal on a 150.00 show. Another thing that I feel is overlooked by allot of entertainers is, after the show be sure to send a thankyou cardor letter thanking the client for their patronage. this lets your clients know that you appreciate them and that their continued business with you is of the highest concern.
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Postby Guest » 02/27/03 07:16 PM

Several excellent books out there to help market. One of my favorites is titled "Get Clients Now" by C.J. Hayden, the other(s) are the Dick Ryan series "Confidential Booking Report"'s, and his video. If you take all three, study the Ryan series and then use the Hayden book to position yourself and then to get the clients, then you can use what you learned from the Ryan series by applying his techniques to GET those shows.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/ABstagecraft
Supplying Unique Mentalism World-wide

Oh, make sure that you have a marketable act before you do any of that. Please I beg you, as there are many that were far better marketers than magicians and I do use the term "were" as once they worked, they never tend to repeat the gig and usually leave a very sour taste in the bookers mouth for others in the near future.
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Postby Guest » 02/28/03 03:14 AM

One great tool is to get very famous that will generate many magic jobs.
But its not easy to get famous.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/01/03 08:51 AM

A very sincere thanks to all who have responded to my original post. Your suggestions are appreciated.

Kindedst regards,

Pete Mills
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/01/03 10:34 PM

After you take all the above advice... get a line on some really good agents and/or representatives. It is far easier for a third party to get you a good deal than to deal on your own. They are worth the price.
Stay tooned.
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Postby Guest » 03/02/03 08:28 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pete Mills:
[QB]Are there any professionals or amateurs with marketing techniques, tips, or recommendations they care to share?
~~~~~~~~~~~~

May I suggest Mike Ammar's audiotape on negotiating higher performance fees. I believe his website still offers it. IMO it is heavy in content and quality. "Motivational rah-rah" is useful in selling, but Ammar's tape is full of how-to, from one who knows.

Sincerely,

B.C. Milnov
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Postby Guest » 03/02/03 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
After you take all the above advice... get a line on some really good agents and/or representatives. It is far easier for a third party to get you a good deal than to deal on your own. They are worth the price.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pete, this is the real secret. Take Mr. Biro's advice to heart. It is the truth. Don't pass it by.

May I suggest reading a Bonus Insert from Bascom Jones' MAGICK, by Vic Perry. Vic was a trouper, as they say. I believe it was written in the 1970's. The topic was dealing with unscrupulous agents and their tricks on neophytes. "The Language of Agents" was part of the title, as I recall.

There are agents and there are agents. Focus your efforts on the good ones, the professionals who are established. I don't mean only the largest agencies and speakers bureaus. Agents who like you and believe you can please their clients, can and will change your life. They are worth their fees. Agents handle the business side of what you do, and allow you to focus solely on being a creative, likeable performer.

B.C. Milnov

Persevere, and don't give up because of rejection. Believe in yourself.

"Every attempt is a success; failure is letting any chance to try go by." -- B.C. Milnov
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Postby Guest » 03/03/03 08:13 PM

Make sure you get a GOOD agent though.

Also, see how many magicians your guy represents. If they have lots of guys on their books they might not get you as much work or the type of work you want to do.

Agents don't want to get YOU work. They want to get as much money as possible from as many acts.

Even if you use agents, sell yourself and make yourself KNOW.

I can say this from experience. I am agent and I constantly have acts asking when I am going to get them more work of the type they want.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/04/03 05:49 PM

Pete,
You are correct but let's clarify terms here.

There is a huge difference between an "agent" and a "manager". An Agent usually does not have an exclusive relationship between his "acts" whereas a "manager" does. Also, an agent tends to look after bookings, a manager looks after ALL the details for you. The greatest thing I ever did was get a personal manager (and they are not very easy to find I might add) as it freed me up to look towards my "show" and entertaining the audience and there was nothing else to worry about. My manager keeps all the agents aprised of what I am doing, where I am, looks after the press, advertising, pitching, etc...

One problem with trying to secure a good "manager" is the need to have a reputation and good track record, something that having several good agents booking you repeatedly will do. In other words, starting out, you do need to understand that business side of what we call show.

as always I remain,
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/ABstagecraft
Supplying Unique Mentalism world-wide
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