the best mentalisem shows

Instead of mentally projecting your mentalism thoughts, type them here.

Postby Guest » 09/11/02 08:11 AM

Name 5 American mentalists
name 5 none American mentalist
(Lay people mentalist and not magicians mentalists)

(live not dead)

Doripaz
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Postby Guest » 09/11/02 06:37 PM

American Mentalists: Mark Salem, Kreskin, Jon Saint-Germain, Ross Johnson, Tim Connover.

Non American Mentalists: Satori, Ted Leslie, Derren Brown, Guy Bavli, Lior Manor.

John Riggs
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Postby Stefan Fisher » 09/11/02 11:44 PM

To those I'd add Max Maven and Banachek.
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Postby Guest » 09/12/02 07:24 AM

I Heared about Antony Blake from Spain
and Pascl from France

Who is Tim Conover
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Postby Guest » 09/12/02 09:49 AM

Head to www.timconover.com to find out.
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Postby Guest » 09/12/02 10:16 AM

Gary Kurtz has a great show
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Postby Doug Dyment » 09/12/02 10:18 AM

Bob Cassidy, Gary Kurtz, Andy Nyman, Anton Zellman, Ted St. James, Paul Alberstat, Mark Strivings, Randy Charach, The Evasons, Chuck Hickok, Brian Gillis, Robert Priest, Tim Zager, Bob Lawson, Gil Eagles, Ken Weber, Kenton Knepper, Ralf Frohlich, Quentin Reynolds, Tony Binarelli, Timothy Hyde, Fredrik Praesto, ... and many more.

This could be quite a long list. Though I'm not sure of the topic's intention.

... Doug
... Doug :: Proprietor of The Deceptionary
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Postby Guest » 09/12/02 12:56 PM

I am a card guy and see many people move to mentalisem.
Here are some facts from my point of view:
I understand that there is much more money over there.
Lay people like it more then card tricks.
Most of the magicians don't like mentalisem.
Most of the magicians are doing poor mentalisem (Larry Baker style)

I wanted to know how many good mentalists are known by magicians
I understand that we don't know that many
Doripaz
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Postby Guest » 09/12/02 01:25 PM

Dori

I think the reason so few "Mentalists" and "Psychic Entertainers" are known in the magician's circles stems from a handful of "prejudices" (for lack of a better term). Mentalists cannot compete in magic convention competitions due to the nature of their work... it takes us time to set-up routines vs. being able to do 15 tricks in 3 minutes as some manipulators do (well... you know what I mean). This in itself makes us a kind of "outcast".

The other issue of "blame" as it were, stemming from the magician's position, is the misconception and lack of understanding when it comes to certain issues and practices common in mentalism. The hard core mentalist walks a very fine line between admitting he/she's pure fraud and admitting they're real... that is, in the "old way of thinking". Some, especially in the past 30 years or so, use this "Researcher" image like Kreskin used to do in the 70s and others simply state that what they do is nothing more than applying aspects of known sciences e.g. psychology, math, etc.

This brings us to one of the big black marks on the side of the Psychic Entertainer's community... ARROGANCE! Many of us are exceptionally guilty of acting as if we are superior to all around us. For some, this is a defense. I know for me there are times I'll put up such a wall, simply to avoid folks (we are "on call" almost constantly... people want "Readings" etc.)

Shifting back to the bias projected towards mentalist by many a magician, there's the backroom ops many of us partake in, that make some good cash e.g. Private Readings, Mail Order, the sell of Astrology Reports, etc. All of which are outlined and deemed an important and "accepted" part of our trade. In short, there seems to be a double-standard around this element even though most of the major players of the field participate in this kind of work regularly and, as I've stated, reference to it can be found in the "bibles" of the craft (Larsen, Nelson, Hull, Grant, and into the present with names like Hillford, Webster, Knepper, Flora, and Strivings at the top of the lists.)

Many of us that do mentalism also play to smaller venues. The nature of what we do lending itself well to audiences as small as 12... we can do 3-6 shows a week to groups of this size, plus our side work and generate an above average income via our PART-TIME career. Toss in some books and maybe a few effects to sell in our latter years and voila!

Sure, I'm making it sound exceptionally easy, but I do know of a few "old timers" that have and are, doing exactly this. My personal life "challenges" are expediting this very course of action... These same circumstances have also inspired me to make one last commercial push... a big show in a big room... but that's another story we'll get into once all is confirmed. :D
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Postby Guest » 09/12/02 03:37 PM

I agree with Craig that magicians and mentalists often fail to understand each other.

In addition, a lot of magicians thing that mentalism is easy to do because of its simple methodologies ... in this case, I've always said that mentalism is easy to do but hard to do well. It takes a lifetime to master the subtleties and small points that make mentalism memorable. It also takes a heck of a lot of soul searching to come to the conclusion that (in mentalism) LESS is MORE.

To put it in a magician's frame of reference, look at the Three Shell game. A trick that is methodologically simple -- heck, you can't NOT do it -- if you push the shell the pea pops out. But, and this is important, it's difficult to do it well. I've seen maybe three people do the Three Shell game well. This is true of a lot of magic and (perhaps ) ALL of mentalism.

Man,I could go on all day on this theme, but I'll just toss the bone in and see where it lands. It's good toactually find a conversation about mentalism in the mentalism area!

John Riggs
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Postby Guest » 09/12/02 07:47 PM

Originally posted by Craig Browning:
...Mentalists cannot compete in magic convention competitions due to the nature of their work... it takes us time to set-up routines vs. being able to do 15 tricks in 3 minutes as some manipulators do (well... you know what I mean). This in itself makes us a kind of "outcast"... [/QB]
Jeff and Tessa Evason actually proved that wrong a few years ago at the Desert Seminar when they wowed the magicians and took the award.

One of the main problems with magicians vrs. mentalists is that most magicians are hobbiests and as such are looking for "methods" over "real world material" and as such they find mentalism "the same old thing". Granted that is a generality but it is quite common to see. Even when I lecture, I throw in some magicians only material that is more suited to "the trick of the week" to satisfy that urge and while all the material I teach is from my repertoire, some of it has been altered by me presentational wise to appeal to magicians more than a lay audience. At least by doing that it will satisfy both the magicians that want to try some "real mental effects", the ones that do actually work for REAL people and lastly the ones that like something new to play with before they move on to the next kewl thing.

There is nothing wrong with any of those groups, just that there are many different tastes to satisfy and the majority of those interested in magic are merely magic enthusiasts and not professionals. As such they "crave" new things all the time. Mentalism is more about presentation than kewl new methods.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
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Postby Steve Hook » 09/12/02 09:34 PM

Paul & Craig:

Magic is basically about two things: method and presentation. 90% of magicians (hobbyists or pros) are into sleights and gizmos. (There is some percentage who are totally into presentation but that's not whom I'm speaking of here.)

That's the nature of magicians. It's part of what attracted them to magic. They're not "prejudiced" against Mentalism, they're just, at the root, interested in things that, by those things' nature, aren't Mentalism.

"...'methods' over 'real world material'... "?

Not exactly, Paul, because there are lots of methods, old and brand new, in lots of magicians' (pro and otherwise) "real world material".

"...merely magic enthusiasts and not professionals. As such they 'crave' new things all the time. Mentalism is more about presentation than kewl new methods..."?

"Merely...enthusiasts"?

"Crave new things"?

"Kewl"?

Paul, I'm surprised by how pejorative your post is.

I'm beginning to think, as Craig said, that you Mentalists really <do> know the meaning of "superiority" and "arrogance".

Fortunately, I'm 36 hours from leaving for Vegas and the Magic Invitational, where I can spend useless hours learning what's "kewl" from "mere enthusiasts" like Aaron Fisher, Bob Fitch, Chris Korn, Nathan Kranzo, Garrett Thomas, and a few others. Shoot, maybe even some of the pros like Bob Kohler and Eric Mead will have some "kewl" things to satisfy my "craving".

Hey, I think I'm beginning to see why you folks have issues about "prejudices" and "outcast"-edness.

Steve H
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Postby Guest » 09/13/02 10:57 AM

Bob Kohler does menatlisem.

This Darmoe is not the type of mentalists I want
to be.

Magician like to fool people.
Mentalists magish people

Doripaz
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Postby Guest » 09/13/02 01:01 PM

I'll start with confirmation to what Paul stated above...

One of the saddest things I ever witnessed was in Vegas at a noted mid-week group. Barclay Shaw had just passed away and Eugene Burger came in for a lecture. Rather than doing his normal lecture he dedicated the night to Barclay's uncanny sense of creativity and delivered one of the most amazing (and important) lectures I think I've had the privledge to attend.

The following Wednesay senior members of this group were complaining very loudly over the fact the Eugene didn't teach them any of his card stuff and would never be allowed back if he wasn't going to give them what they were paying for...

Let's see... the mentalist and three other FULL TIME PROS loved and applauded what Eugene shared and essentially shared the same perspectives... all the know-it-alls and wannabes that essentially did tricks here and there @ $50.00 a pop for parties and couldn't do a decent double-lift to save their life were down on the man and didn't learn a thing.

I wont say who, but one noted comic-magician looked at these same guys doing their annual Christmas show and stated (with concern) "If they get much worse they'll be able to work the strip..." (in those days, there were far more bad acts in Vegas than good... hmmm... )

Regardless your preference of style, your personal philosophy of how to do things, etc. it seems the most difficult thing in magic to learn NOT TO DO is How to not think like a magician.

John is right on the ball with the pack-rat nature most of us have. Given my background with Kirkham and my own insanity of "having to have one of everything" I willing support the rumor that Magic is an Addiction and Mark Wilson was the most cruel of drug dealers in the early 60s... that dang show of his leading more of us to throw our lives down the gutter, just so we can learn the next new trick.... ;)

The neatest thing about Mentalism, or so it would seem, is you needn't have a massive inventory and less is typically more. The majority of those in our field have gone further without spending a dime and applying some basic logic, than most magicians will ever go via the venture of mass fortunes and guidance of a dozen or so experts.

In my experience at least, mentalism seems to be the "easier, softer road..." Provided you are a natural showman cognizant enough to know how to make it all come together. Honorable and wise enough to know each of us have our own way of doing it that fits with who and what we are... this changes with time. Possibly why the old timers saw Mentalism as the Icing to the Career Cake... that pentacle of fire that proved our worth as genuine masters of the stage.
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Postby Guest » 09/13/02 03:39 PM

Let me sadd my dimes woth to the discussion. First IMO, mentalism and magic are not the same art. They often rely in similar methodology, but are totally different. For example, there are few surprises in mentalism. Nothing changes color or or, pops up. The mentalist says he will read your mind. Then he does. I use the generic he for mankind, because the majority of men embrace women. So the mentalist relies on the audience, suspension of disbelief by the audience much more than the magician. The mentalist also doesn't challenge his audience to catch him. Or tell people he's fooling them. He's an actor playing a part.
Take for example, two extremely succesfull mentalists , Ross Johnson and Marc Salem, who in recent years appeared at magic conventions. Neither was as well recieved by magicians as their regular audience.

Many magicians think , because mentalism does not require knickle busting sleightof hand it's easy. Actually, the acting and force of personality required to perform mentalism is much more difficult

Finally, the arrogance issue, perhaps it's defensive. I and most other mentalist have had the expperience of going to a magic convention, being asked by another attendee what sort of magic, they were in to and when theyt said mentalism, have less than enthusiastic convention.
There have also been many instances of magicians having no compunctions aboutr exposing mentalism techniques. This does not inspire camaraderie
from
Ford
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Postby Steve Hook » 09/13/02 04:22 PM

Craig:

It's already been covered a couple of posts back:

"Magic is basically about two things: method and presentation. 90% of magicians (hobbyists or pros) are into sleights and gizmos...That's the nature of magicians. It's part of what attracted them to magic. They're not 'prejudiced' against Mentalism, they're just, at the root, interested in things that, by those things' nature, aren't Mentalism. "

You can't beat guys into submission, i.e., love and accept the psychic stuff you do. They're magicians , they want sleights, gizmos, and, at the very least cool methods.

Many a pundit has talked about "running when you're not being chased". It sounds like the Mentalists here are doing the same.

I've found this to be a rather shocking month of posts from you folks. I personally like Mentalism and appreciate its methods. I love Corinda and John Riggs, for instance, has some great routines. I, for one, wouldn't dis a Mentalist at a magic convention, Ford.

But on the other hand, a Mentalist can't go to a close-up convention and expect finger-flingers (who are usually a lot more talented than you gratuitously and sarcastically imply, Craig) to go fawning over your latest version of pre-show clipboard work or even cold-reading. Hey.........they're not there for that!

The Burger / Shaw lecture? I know a lot of guys who would have gotten a lot out of that talk; I'd have listened intentely. But it's up to he who paid his money to decide if he's not happy that he didn't get what was promised. The guy went for card tricks? Then that's what makes him happy. So be it. I don't think he cares what you want him to like, Craig, or if you want him to be more philosophical.

And "The majority of those in our field have gone further without spending a dime and applying some basic logic, than most magicians will ever go via the venture of mass fortunes and guidance of a dozen or so experts"?

Hey, it's already been said: the guys (and gals) who buy magic like new magic tricks. That's their hobby and interest. If you want to sell every gimmick you ever bought and go do readings the rest of your life, then so be it. It's two different things, man.

It keeps sounding like you'd also go to a boat show or a blacksmiths' convention and wonder why those guys weren't talking auras and nail writers with you. Where's the logic?

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Postby Guest » 09/13/02 07:16 PM

Thank you Steve, for the nice words about my books, etc. Of course, I have a secret and unholy love for card and coin tricks, secret gizmos (I thought the Sanada gimmick was great and played with it for months) and other magic stuff.

I guess I consider magic my hobby and mentalism my profession. In fact, when pressed by my niece and nephews, I can even twist a passible balloon doggie.

So I don't look down on magicians. I love magic if it's well done. Same with mentalism, hyp or vent. I've sat through way too many bad shows to sit through one more. Life's too short.

But when big-mouth bigots like Jamy Ian Swiss refer to mentalism as "slumming," how can anyone possibly take him seriously? I mean come on -- he's a guy who does card tricks. Does this make him the moral judge of all entertainment? Even if he's the best card magician in the world (actually, I'm much better, and I'm a mentalist, Bwa ha ha ha!), he's still just a magician, as I'm just a mentalist, and Violent J is just a clown. That's all we are, and it should be enough.

IMO, mentalism and magic are different. One isn't better or more sophisticated than the other; just different. It's all up to the performer to make the performance something that trandcends mediocrity.

John Riggs
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Postby Bill Mullins » 09/13/02 08:54 PM

Originally posted by John Riggs:
So I don't look down on magicians. I love magic if it's well done.
I can vouch for that. John Riggs did a heck of a job for us when we hosted the SEAM convention in 1998, he's a regular at the Winter Carnival in Gatlinburg, and he and Troy Hooser were sharing and comparing notes at the recent Nashville Festival of Magic. Plus, he's a nice guy, doesn't come off as arrogant at all.

I understand this Jon Saint-Germain guy is pretty good too <G>
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Postby Guest » 09/13/02 09:30 PM

Oh, Bill, Jon Saint-Germain is SUCH a schmuck ... with that arched eyebrow and smirking glance into his crystal ball. I can hardly stand to live in the same head with him.

Had a great time at the Nashville con, too. Glen Strange about makes me laugh myself to death.

JsG
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Postby Guest » 09/14/02 07:02 AM

I honestly don't know how to approach this situation... Some have some serious misconceptions (unfounded even) about my beliefs, practices, and philosophy as a performer and rather "deep" student of this craft (as in "Magic" on the broad spectrum).

Steve, it would seem, has a one track mind when my name is mentioned... O.k. I happen to have specialized in Readings and the art/business of doing them. Like it or not, it is part of Mentalism. As a "magician" you don't have to do them, you aren't obliged to actually read what I've written and taught/teach on the subject. It's common practice for "magicians" to condem anything that might hint at Psi/the Paranormal prior to investigation. I will not go round and round on this again. I will however invite those that think me a con, to join me at the 72-hour Gathering Andy Leviss has organizes and get some facts. I can assure you, anyone with the most remote desire to make some cash on the side with mentalism will find something they can use and have fun with, that their audiences will enjoy.

I believe Ford & John have both covered much of what I have failed to express. Ford is also correct on his observation pertaining to the attitude and actions of magicians towards mentalists... I even have to admit that (in looking at this retrospectively) I did the same thing during my box moving days... I honestly loathed most mentalists and thought them arrogant and boring. Funny how karma comes back and bites us in the butt :rolleyes:
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Postby Guest » 09/14/02 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Craig Browning:
O.k. I happen to have specialized in Readings and the art/business of doing them. Like it or not it is part of Mentalism.
Ugh. Would any full-time mentalist like to step up to the plate on that one? Mr. Maven??? I mean, if Jamy Swiss sold bits of chicken bone as relics of St. Francis at the end of his show, would that, "like it or not," be a part of magic?
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Postby Matthew Field » 09/14/02 03:18 PM

Originally posted by Ralph Bonheim:
I mean, if Jamy Swiss sold bits of chicken bone as relics of St. Francis at the end of his show, would that, "like it or not," be a part of magic?
You mean that bone I bought from Jamy can also be used to make soup?

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Postby Guest » 09/14/02 07:07 PM

If J.I.S. sold it, it would be a hambone...

John Riggs
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Postby Jeff Haas » 09/14/02 10:15 PM

Here's my viewpoint on this whole thing...

Let's suppose that there's a mentalist on stage, doing a show in front of an audience. Someone, who doesn't even know that a show is going on, walks in and sees that there's a show happening.

What kind of show do they think is occurring?

When I saw this happen, the woman said, "I hate magicians," and turned around and walked away.

This led me to an interesting conclusion...a lot of the shows that mentalists do are perceived as magic shows. Sure, there's no rabbit coming out of a hat, but the basic format is the same: I'm going to stand up here on stage and show you how amazing I am.

The only way to get away from this is to be "psychic" and tell people things about themselves. Then you're not showing how all-powerful you are, you're "using your special talent to help them." (Just like the psychics on late-night TV.)

Jeff
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Postby Guest » 09/15/02 06:12 AM

Yes, I think Jeff Haas nails the distinction.

I'm a little saddened by some of the remarks here to the effect that mentalism is not a branch of magic. Of course it's a branch of magic! Every branch of magic requires a special set of chops to do well -- mentalism requires particularly strong showmanship and verbal skill to draw out spectators' suspension of disbelief. But like any other branch of magic, I think most magicians of any subspecialty enjoy seeing mentalism done well.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/15/02 02:36 PM

Mentalism certainly qualities as a branch of magic because of the shared methodologies.
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Postby Bob Coyne » 09/15/02 08:00 PM

Shared methodogies really doesn't seem pertinent. Otherwise cheating at cards would be considered magic. Instead, if mentalism is to be considered magic, it must be based on similarity of presentation, effect, audience experience, etc.
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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 09/15/02 08:03 PM

I've seen many mentalists and the good ones are very good, indeed. Marc Salem has figured out how to make mentalism ingratiating and warmly human. So has Barrie Richardson. Tim Conover has added zip and energy to classics. Ross Johnson understands how to dramatize and make his shows momentous...His presentations are as high-powered as Koran's were, without Al's swagger and diva-attitudinizing. Darren Brown seems to be on the right track.

I haven't seen Kurtz work, but I know he understands theater.

I also think that David Berglas is in a class by himself. So is Kreskin, the unsung survivor. He's the Energizer Bunny of Mentalism.

And...

What?
No mention of Max Maven?

If nobody else will, I will: I think that Max has the most encompassing, robust ken (regarding mentalism) on the planet. His presentations and persona have stirred heated debate over the years, but his potential (perhaps not yet realized to the extent I think it could reach) is the greatest of his generation.

Onward...
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Postby Doug Brewer » 09/16/02 09:20 AM

I'd say the best mentalists out there are the dudes working at Farmer Almanac. Get this - they predict (in writing) without a center tear or glimpse, what the weather is going to be the following year and the nail it over and over again. Those guys are the greatest.
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Postby Guest » 09/16/02 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Doug Brewer:
I'd say the best mentalists out there are the dudes working at Farmer Almanac. Get this - they predict (in writing) without a center tear or glimpse, what the weather is going to be the following year and the nail it over and over again. Those guys are the greatest.
Funny, how some of the old notes on doing Readings & Headline predictions (like Jack Dean's "Soothasayer") tells people to use this source along with certain "algorythms"(sp)and formuli... then again, one of the old "standards" is to allow other people's predictions to get sewn into your own.

In Regards to Ralph's comment... It amazes me how few of the self-elected "experts" in this business tend to ignore what was encouraged, taught and practiced by some of the "founding parents" as well as present day "stars" of this trade. Let's see... Kreskin used to sell mail order Readings as well as "Miracle Self-Healing" and "Success" courses via the National Enquirer... Richard Webster and others have written books and done videos on Mail Order Mentalism marketing, how to use "backroom" ops (including READINGS) and more!

Seems that such operations are "o.k." if you're a big name, widely published, and pulling in big bucks (or getting the 'right' pat's on the back) but anyone that don't fit that element, is wrong and cracked (not to mention, a "crook")... Sorry, but there seems a double standard laying around here someplace. :rolleyes:
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Postby Matthew Field » 09/16/02 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Jon Racherbaumer:
I've seen many mentalists and the good ones are very good, indeed.
I've seen Marc Salem, Max Maven, Dunninger (on TV), Kreskin (TV), several folks on videos (Bob Cassidy, Larry Becker, Kenton Knepper), and several others (Jon Stetson, Bob Sheets) who include mental items as part of their acts. Those are just the performers who come immediately to mind.

I've come to the conclusion that it is nigh impossible for a magician to evaluate a mentalist.

I truly believe that you've got to attend a show with a lay person, and one who is not a dyed in the wool skeptic, to judge the impact of a mentalist's effectiveness.

Magicians (like me) analyze too much -- evaluate the odds, look for outs, suspect gimmicks. Laypeople are just out for a good time, and if they are amazed, that's what the mentalist is after.

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Postby Doug Brewer » 09/16/02 12:22 PM

Actually the Farmer's Almanac thing was supposed to be a humorous by-line, but hey, whatever ...

I had the pleasure of seeing Max Maven last year when he was working a small theatre in Hollywood. I took my cousin (lay person) and she had a blast. Maven was amusing, spooky, amazing and very entertaining. I would love to see Marc Salem since he's the rage right now and I'm sure much different in presentational style compared to Maven. I believe Derren Brown's style and the effects chosen for his Mind Control TV shows are darn near perfect. He's become one of my favorite "TV" performers.

Regarding the "is mentalism magic?" question. I believe mentalism is much closer to magic than, say, manipulation. I've had more than one instance where my lay friends would ask "what's he supposed to be doing?" when seeing a manipulation act (the performer was producing card after card at this point). When I explained that the cards seemed to be coming from nowhere, my friends looked more confused. They thought it was obvious the cards were in their hands, and in fact, did not know this was the actual "trick". Ouch!
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Postby Guest » 09/16/02 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Craig Browning:
In Regards to Ralph's comment... It amazes me how few [sic] of the self-elected "experts" in this business tend to ignore what was encouraged, taught and practiced by some of the "founding parents" as well as present day "stars" of this trade. Let's see... Kreskin used to sell mail order Readings as well as "Miracle Self-Healing" and "Success" courses via the National Enquirer... Richard Webster and others have written books and done videos on Mail Order Mentalism marketing, how to use "backroom" ops (including READINGS) and more!

Seems that such operations are "o.k." if you're a big name, widely published, and pulling in big bucks (or getting the 'right' pat's on the back) but anyone that don't fit that element, is wrong and cracked (not to mention, a "crook")... Sorry, but there seems a double standard laying around here someplace. :rolleyes:
Craig, my only point here was to disagree with your inclusion of "legit" readings under the umbrella of mentalism. Certainly, a few gratuitous tarot readings can help establish the mood for a mentalism act and in that limited, scene-setting capacity be considered a part of mentalism. But you've made clear that you take your readings and psychic abilities seriously; that's a whole nuther thing.

When Harry Lorayne hawked his memory course, that wasn't a part of magic -- it was just something else he did. So too, in my view, with your (and many of your esteemed predecessors') forays into the occult arts.

Whatever you're trying to say about big-name vs smaller-name performers is not in response to anything I wrote.

Best,
Ralph
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Postby Guest » 09/17/02 03:48 PM

Ralph (all) I believe I'm not the only person here that does "Mentalism" and who "as a day job" does Readings. I know for fact John Riggs stated that he does PSYCHIC Readings and yet, I'm not seeing folks pounce on him and attempt to tear him apart as they have me. That is where I get the whole "double-standard" thing.

That's neither here or there however, As was mentioned above, it is best to see how a Mentalist works in person and if possible, with lay-people. I can assure you, my audiences leave a bit mesmerized but laughing (and knowing, in some instances, I was tricking them.)

I am far too much a ham and egotist to not be a showman and entertainer. The whole Psychic thing is there for icing to the cake -- PR, for lack of a better term. However, it is an angle that's lived out its day for me. Things are a chang'n and in a big, very commercial way. ;)

I'm certain what we are about to introduce (towards the end of this year/early January) will have the most staunch of my critics laughing as well as applauding. :p
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Postby Bill Mullins » 09/17/02 10:18 PM

Originally posted by Craig Browning:
I know for fact John Riggs stated that he does PSYCHIC Readings and yet, I'm not seeing folks pounce on him and attempt to tear him apart as they have me. That is where I get the whole "double-standard" thing.
Craig -- in another topic you said you are a "believer", which makes you a "whipping boy" to magicians. John Riggs hasn't made such a claim here -- thus the double standard.

Not because no one cares if he does readings or not.
Bill Mullins
 
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Postby Guest » 09/18/02 04:23 PM

As was mentioned above, it is best to see how a Mentalist works in person and if possible, with lay-people. I can assure you, my audiences leave a bit mesmerized but laughing (and knowing, in some instances, I was tricking them.)

I congratulate you on leaving your audiences mesmerized and laughing, but in only some instances do they know they were tricked?

Not to resurrect the earlier thread -- which Richard mercifully put to sleep like I had to do with my cat, Hoover -- but as Bill notes, you've got some consistency issues. In your finest moment in the other thread, you asserted that you make very clear for your audiences/clients when they're seeing artful trickery and when they're reaping the unfaked benefits of your genuine psychic gifts. I think that's a fair paraphrase.

But if only "some" viewers of your mentalism act understand that they've been tricked, then you haven't really drawn the clear distinction you boasted of earlier, have you?

--R
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Postby Guest » 09/19/02 08:14 AM

Originally posted by Ralph Bonheim:
[b]As was mentioned above, it is best to see how a Mentalist works in person and if possible, with lay-people. I can assure you, my audiences leave a bit mesmerized but laughing (and knowing, in some instances, I was tricking them.)

I congratulate you on leaving your audiences mesmerized and laughing, but in only some instances do they know they were tricked?

Not to resurrect the earlier thread -- which Richard mercifully put to sleep like I had to do with my cat, Hoover -- but as Bill notes, you've got some consistency issues. In your finest moment in the other thread, you asserted that you make very clear for your audiences/clients when they're seeing artful trickery and when they're reaping the unfaked benefits of your genuine psychic gifts. I think that's a fair paraphrase.

But if only "some" viewers of your mentalism act understand that they've been tricked, then you haven't really drawn the clear distinction you boasted of earlier, have you?

--R[/b]
In a line of this type I honestly have to wonder if YOU HAVE EVER READ ANYTHING ON THE ART OF MENTALISM AND NOT TAINTED IT WITH MAGICIAN'S THINKING?

In nearly EVERY BOOK I've read on mentalism (and I teethed on Larsen, Corrinda, Nelson & Hull)the objective of the performer is to leave the audience hanging with uncertainty to neither claim nor negate accolades that impose upon you, said prowess.

Yes! I do claim to be a "believer"... how many Christian magicians out here claim to be a "believer"?

Same thing! If you believe in and embrace the bible as "fact" (or any such sacred tome) then you cannon negate the existence of such things without being a hypocrit. This would mean you are an atheist... that is, if you do not believe in or endorse the fact that certain people can (as is stated in nearly all sources of "divine scripture") discern things, see (as in divination) facts pertaining to past & future, etc. This also relates to healing and numerous other phenomena.

Ironically when I point this out to the ardent skeptic they quickly backtrack and deny being an Atheist and maybe (for the sake of "safety" and straddling the fence) claim an Agnostic position (a serious cop-out that gets them out of the "Blind Faith" obligation of most religious teachings and leaves them room to deny and impose their will and ideas into the beliefs of others.)

Now, I will not go into this rue again. I do believe, Nelson testified that he believed, Mark Strivings has made numerous public statements as to how he's been amazed at how accurate esoteric divination systems are WITHOUT ADDING ANY COLD READING, PRIFILES OR TRICKERY (as has Richard Webster, Kenton Knepper and a plethora of others.)

To do the two bit lawyer routine is beneath you Tom... To state at a public level that "I do PSYCHIC Readings" (as JR stated)... hmm, according to the "example" anyone can say this, so long as they don't believe it to be real...

...sorry, but I think you're speaking from the wrong orafice. :eek: (you might want to get that fixed.)

Of course, now I'm the "bad guy" for slinging mud... hmmm... who threw the first punch here? Who is calling who "Laim" and a "fraud"?

Now, let's get off this dead horse and move forward. I believe the topic had to do with Popular & Successful Mentalists... or as some would paint the portrait Successful Con-Artists that manipulate religious, superstition, etc. like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Osoma Ben Laden, George W... ;)
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Postby Guest » 09/19/02 03:08 PM

I'm happy to get off the dead horse as well. I am indeed not an expert on mentalism, only someone with a keen nose for bovine excreta.
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Postby Guest » 09/19/02 06:11 PM

There are few Mentalist / Psychic Entertainers that have worked the radio and TV with any success. Some of them are are Dunninger, Kreskin, Uri Geller, Marc Salem, and of course Riley G (me...grin).

Myself, I have done many live radio shows on remote viewings, and starred in several international TV programs on the subject as well To name a few of the TV programs: Fuji-TV (Shot in and aired in Japan, Special Guest Star), Inside Edition (StarGate), Joe Franklin, Hard Copy, Comedy Central... Many here have not heard of me because I don't hang out or talk to magicians.

I have since moved on to film and movie acting & stunts (Screen Actors Guild member) and perform very few psychic/hypnotism shows anymore.

Jan 1997: featured Interview in Uri Geller's Encounters Magizine
April 1993: featured interview for FATE magazine (Psychic Detectives)
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Postby Guest » 09/20/02 02:30 PM

Welcome Riley!

Trust me, not associating with magicians has been proven time and again "the safe advantage" for many a mentalist... especially those of us working the kind of venues you've mentioned.

Sounds to me like you come from the "old school" of thinking.
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