spoon bending

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Postby Brian Marks » 10/12/02 09:13 PM

Whats the best place to learn this from?
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Postby Guest » 10/13/02 09:09 AM

Psychokenetic Silverware Video
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Postby Guest » 10/13/02 11:30 PM

Guy Bavli videos have some spoon bending stuff.

Try to find Geller on video...

Maxim
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Postby Guest » 10/14/02 08:40 AM

Originally posted by Brian Marks:
Whats the best place to learn this from?
I haven't done an exhaustive study of silverware-bending sources, but I have bought the Psychokinetic Silveware video by Banacek. It's great. I use most of his routine whenever I have the opportunity to bend silveware.

What's esp good about Banacek's stuff is his routining. He knows where to misdirect and exactly how much to misdirect. He's also a master of the equivoce, subtle force, and subtle anything. His mastery absolutely dazzles me.

And at the end of his video, he actually lists other sources for silverware bending--as I recall, maybe 15 other sources.

As I recall, the Bavli videos got some bad reviews in the magic magazines, although those reviewers are famously not practitioners of psychokinesis, so I don't know what to make of that.
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Postby Guest » 10/14/02 08:58 AM

Ignore the reviewers of Bavli tapes.
They are better in card magic then in spoon bending.
I use a lot from his tapes (and from Banacheck
tapes).

Maxim
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Postby David Fletcher » 10/15/02 03:45 AM

The video by Parik Kuffs is the best on metal bending.
David Fletcher. Actor, Magician, Sailor, Ideal Dinner Guest
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Postby Guest » 10/15/02 07:27 AM

I just got back from the 72-Hour Gathering in New Hampshire and saw first hand Banachek's handling on bendings... IT'S COOL! It's simple and it's clean! If the tape is half as good as his demonstration you will be getting MORE than your money's worth.

I too have used the Bavli materials including his TT system with great success. However, I believe Steve covers the psychological aspects of metal bending much better than Guy (as well as the potential "dangers" around the actions).

I'm not a big one for bending but if there were a definative source I'd have to go with Banachek... but then, he's been doing it nearly as long as Geller... :p
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Postby Guest » 10/15/02 08:42 AM

Originally posted by nuwavdav:
The video by Parik Kuffs is the best on metal bending.
The reason that this specific product was good was because of the content that he took without any permission from the actual originators. Kuffs took from whoever he wanted (some excellent ideas from such people as Banachek and Nu) without permission and then used it in his video which is why it is so good. Is that the kind of product you want to recommend to others? Do you still want to tell others that you even purchased such a thing? I would send it back and ask for my money to be returned, and if more did that, it might help to at least stop some of the blatant thievery going on in magic today.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/abstagecraft
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Postby Guest » 10/15/02 09:33 AM

All the card guys buy more then one book and more then one Video to learn about thier love.
There are so few books and videos about the spoons.
Buy them all.
You will get much more money doing spoons then doing clever card tricks.... :cool:

Maxim
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Postby Guest » 10/15/02 09:34 AM

72 hours??
tell us more
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Postby Stefan Sprenger » 10/15/02 02:27 PM

Dear Mr. Alberstat,

the same topic has been discussed at length at the magiccafe. Steve Banachek was one of the last to comment on the subject.

He said that Patrick appologiesed for what he had done so i guess you should give the man a break when people he took material from forgave him so should you!

And as you said the video is great, he should have given credit where it was do, but hey we all make mistakes!

Don't take this wrong i'm also steeling material, like it just happend to a friend of mine (the Mona Lisa Puzzle) but unfortunatly thats the way it sometimes goes :(

Greetings from Germany,

Stefan
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Postby Guest » 10/15/02 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Hanan Maxim:
72 hours??
tell us more
72-Hours of Mentalism was a first year gathering of about 2-dozen mentalist. The event was organized and hosted by Andy Leviss and Quinn Peril. Rick Maue did a wonderful talk on his "Haunted Magic" material followed by my "conversation" about the art of doing Readings and the Q&A connection. Day Two featured over 4-hours of Banachek covering just about everything he's ever written a book on followed by one of the most important discussions of the event (in my opinion) lead by a professional theater director who just happens to toy around with Mentalism. His perspective and the Acting 101 (including dramatic readings of the Phone Directory) made a powerful impression on us all.

A very fun filled weekend that's now in the planning stages for next fall... hope to see you all there!
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Postby Guest » 10/15/02 04:24 PM

Originally posted by Stefan Sprenger:
Dear Mr. Alberstat,

the same topic has been discussed at length at the magiccafe. Steve Banachek was one of the last to comment on the subject.

He said that Patrick appologiesed for what he had done so i guess you should give the man a break when people he took material from forgave him so should you!

And as you said the video is great, he should have given credit where it was do, but hey we all make mistakes!

Don't take this wrong i'm also steeling material, like it just happend to a friend of mine (the Mona Lisa Puzzle) but unfortunatly thats the way it sometimes goes :(

Greetings from Germany,

Stefan
I do understand where Steve is coming from with his post and I do support it. However a genuine Apology means that you aren't going to do it anymore or again... Mr. Kuff's don't seem to understand that side of things and is currently re-releasing material he blattenly took out of Syzygy... his actions are akin to the example outlined in MAGIC several years ago when addressing this issue... one guy is selling a blue box that does this that and the other and another is selling a red box that does essentially the same trick... "but it's different" because of the finish...

GIVE ME A BREAK!

Some people who are known for this kind of THEFT have PMed and Emailed me to death looking for insight on material that's not mine to tip, that others shared with me. One such item will soon be available -- a topit system from Sylvester the Jester and Kevin James... this is an awesome bit of thinking that I am using (with permission) yet I'm seen a jerk for not sharing the insights of it to someone like Kuffs, who "MIGHT" adapt it as part of another video or book before the originator get's it out.

Sorry, that's happened to me on too many systems (because I'm generous, trusting, adn like to share)... magicians... wannabe types... ARE THIEVES! Like a leopard, they do not change their spots all that easy.

I do like Kuff's and think he's got some actual knowledge, but I think he and others that have "borrowed" material (including one or two johnny-come-lately types I've endorsed)from others wrongly, need to learn some honesty as well as humility, so that they can grow as human beings vs. stagnate in the realm of swill they are presently wading in.

...just my two-cents worth.
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Postby Guest » 10/20/02 11:54 PM

Originally posted by Craig Browning:
Originally posted by Hanan Maxim:
[b]72 hours??
tell us more
72-Hours of Mentalism was a first year gathering of about 2-dozen mentalist.
--snip--
A very fun filled weekend that's now in the planning stages for next fall... hope to see you all there![/b]
Just a small correction--there's tentative talk of the gathering happening again next year, but nothing's set in stone yet, including time or location. There's a lot of stuff that needs to be taken into consideration before any of those decisions are made :o)

If/when it does happen, there should be a bit more widespread word than this year; we kept it small to start, but if things go well and it happens again next year, it'll hopefully be a bit more largely advertised (although I do want to not let it get too big, as the intimacy was part of what made it so great this year).

Best,
Andy
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Postby Guest » 10/22/02 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Andy Leviss:
Originally posted by Craig Browning:
[b]
Originally posted by Hanan Maxim:
[b]72 hours??
tell us more
72-Hours of Mentalism was a first year gathering of about 2-dozen mentalist.
--snip--
A very fun filled weekend that's now in the planning stages for next fall... hope to see you all there![/b]
Just a small correction--there's tentative talk of the gathering happening again next year, but nothing's set in stone yet, including time or location. There's a lot of stuff that needs to be taken into consideration before any of those decisions are made :o )

If/when it does happen, there should be a bit more widespread word than this year; we kept it small to start, but if things go well and it happens again next year, it'll hopefully be a bit more largely advertised (although I do want to not let it get too big, as the intimacy was part of what made it so great this year).

Best,
Andy[/b]
:eek:

Obviously you haven't heard about the conspiracy that's in the works ;)

WE HAD TOO MUCH FUN! WE WANT MORE! :D
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Postby Guest » 11/30/03 12:44 AM

Originally posted by David Groves:
Psychokinetic Silveware video by Banacek. It's great. I use most of his routine whenever I have the opportunity to bend silveware.

Anybody have one they want to part with?

www.JeffEzellMAGIC.com
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Postby Guest » 11/30/03 12:48 PM

Why on earth is it that everyone wants to do the same thing? Sppon bending is passe
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
AB Stagecraft
http://www.mindguy.com/store
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Postby Matthew Field » 11/30/03 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Paul Alberstat:
Why on earth is it that everyone wants to do the same thing?
I dunno.

But Richard Osterlind tips his spoon bending techniques on Vol. 3 of his new "Mind Mysteries" videos from L&L.

I'm reviewing them in the January Genii. How do I know that? I'm psychic.

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Postby Guest » 11/30/03 06:48 PM

Originally posted by Paul Alberstat:
Why on earth is it that everyone wants to do the same thing? Sppon bending is passe
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
AB Stagecraft
http://www.mindguy.com/store
And? Your point is?

What a stupid blanket statement.

Whoopdee doo, Paul.

Why do so many like card effects? It has to do with choice and wanting to learn more...but mostly choice.

www.JeffEzellMAGIC.com
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Postby Guest » 12/02/03 11:16 AM

Stupid blanket statement?!?!?!?! By that reply alone I conclude that you too are one of the typical magicians that are the reason that lay people all think that all magicians are the same and do the same things. Learning something has nothing to do with performing the same thing which is what most magicians do and what my comment was directed at.

Mentalists (true mentalists and not magicians perfoming mental magic) are starting to fall into this same trap. They all seem to do blindfolds, spoon bending, etc...which is not what makes a performer's act unique and different. Mind you, you don't seem to have a problem with your clientele going to your web site and purchasing the very effects you must perform in your act either, so....I don't even know why i am bothering answering someone like you anyway.
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Postby Guest » 12/02/03 12:17 PM

Paul

Let my quote something i wrote about a year ago.

"Who am i?

I can bend spoons.
I can stop watches.
I can duplicate a drawing you have made in secret.
I can drive blindfolded.
Who am I?
Every *** mentalist!"
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Postby Guest » 12/02/03 12:36 PM

Paul,

I'm curious... you say:

"Why on earth is it that everyone wants to do the same thing? Spoon bending is passe"

However, on your site, this is the first effect you mention (that you do in your show.) Quote:

"With your own eyes, you will witness Paul bending spoons..."

Perhaps you should take your own advice? &/or.. Perhaps you should present your opinions without such (venom &) broad meanings?

regards,
Doug Conn

www.dougconn.com

Sidenote: I also use my website to sell products; a practice that doesn't seem to hurt my business in the least. Magicians selling secrets (be it in the lobby or via mail order) is a practice that has been going on for (hundreds of) years... Is it really that bad?
If so, you might want to share your theories with guys like "Giovanni" (one of the most successful magicians in America) He's doing the same thing.
Considering your stance on such behaviors, I don't expect a response to this note.
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Postby Guest » 12/02/03 09:42 PM

Originally posted by Paul Alberstat:
....I don't even know why i am bothering answering someone like you anyway.
Apparently, because someone finally rubbed your bottle and let the genii out.

Now that you are out, surf the web a bit and realize that there are tons of people that advertise product on their sites. (including things they do in their very own show...eewww)

Get grip and don't trip. I've been doing spoon bending for years. Wanting to check out different styles is my perogative. It is out there for the consumption of all who are interested. So while you are having a fit, why don't you get a hold of Banacek, Bavli, Osterlind and all the others who have product out on this subject and tell them to hide it so that no one else can do anything close to what you do in your show.

And while you are at it, why don't you recall all the card effect books on the market as well...because double lifts and pinky breaks are so pass.

You sound like a sniveling puss.

www.JeffEzellMAGIC.com
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 12/02/03 09:53 PM

Originally posted by Paul Alberstat:
By that reply alone I conclude that you too are one of the typical magicians that are the reason that lay people all think that all magicians are the same and do the same things.
Nice stereotype.
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Postby Guest » 12/03/03 10:34 AM

Paul should be allowed to make these comments. After all, he *IS* a PEA member. Aren't they regarded as the high and mighty?

G.
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Postby Guest » 12/03/03 10:41 AM

Doug,
You are correct that my web site does say that however it has not been in my program for sometime. I am at the whil of my web designer who has fallen behind in major updates on my web site which is why it is still there. If everything goes as planned, it will be completely changed within the month. The truth is that the web alone brings in very little business for us anyway and it is a low priority for us.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
AB Stagecraft
http://www.mindguy.com/store
Check out "Objective" - real impromptu mentalism!
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Postby Andrew » 12/03/03 12:03 PM

Paul, does Objective have anything to do with spelling the items, by any chance?
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Postby Guest » 12/04/03 12:23 PM

No spelling involved. It is a combination of Equivoque and another technique that provides you with the desired "miracle" effect on the audience. I use it and love it.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
AB Stagecraft
http://www.mindguy.com/store
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Postby Guest » 01/09/04 11:23 AM

I get fantastic reults with Yuval Kerens's bending fork...It's very different and knocks there socks off when ever I perform it.
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Postby Guest » 01/26/04 12:16 AM

Hi,

Richard Osterlind in his Mind Mysteries series (volume 3) dedicates considerable time to spoon bending...

Again, he shares some more inputs in the bonus section of the DVD...

Guy Bavli's Metal Bending video is also a good resource...

Regards,
Nakul

Nakul Shenoy
India
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Postby Guest » 01/30/04 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Chris Aguilar:
Originally posted by Paul Alberstat:
By that reply alone [b]I conclude that you too are one of the typical magicians that are the reason that lay people all think that all magicians are the same and do the same things.
Nice stereotype. [/b]
There is a reason why such a broad statement (such as Paul gives) becomes a "stereotype"... usually because a great deal of truth exists within the charge. Not so long ago it seemed anyone that did a Dove Act came off as being the perfect Chavez clone... little to no originality whatsoever! This has been the blight of magic for generations. Ironically, those most guilty of perpetuating it are the first to defend their right to NOT BE ORIGINAL by applying themselves towards being different from the pack. The Gods help us if someone does a lecture for a group of magicians without tipping at least two or three new card tricks :eek:

By the way... being a member of the PEA does not place one into an Ivory Tower. I am not, not do I have the desire to be a part of said cult... I mean fraternal order... but I can be just as opinionated, arrogant, and smug as any other. Membership simply isn't required. Knowing what the heck you're talking about however... well, in some people's books that makes you a bit of an arse. From my point of view, the bigger arse is the fool wanting to defend their right to perpetuate a great wrong.

As far as the whole bending thing goes... I've used Bavli's methods for some time now along with Banacheks. I've found, for my style and market, that less is more! Those that choreograph a complete ballet in bent metal seemingly missing the point to it all. It's a cute puzzle, but rarely comes off as being something "Psychic"... especially in the hands of the average magician vs. an accomplished mentalist that pays attention to his public's reaction.

There I go again... tossing my two-cents worth into another abyss... :(
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Postby Guest » 03/05/04 01:15 AM

Ok, this is post number one for me. Big step.

-Jeff, learn some respect for established menalists especially when posting a public question on a public message board. (This advice was given to me some time ago. Learn it well)

-Though I think the public as a whole is new to mentalism it is important to note that originality in performing is a must, no one ever became rich and famous performing as a Zeplin cover band.
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Postby Guest » 03/09/04 11:43 AM

-Though I think the public as a whole is new to mentalism it is important to note that originality in performing is a must, no one ever became rich and famous performing as a Zeplin cover band.
True enough! Most of us in magic or mentalism are not creators. The real creators are few and far between and the public for the most part isn't aware that you are performing material created by Anneman, Earl, Nu, Osterlind, Banachek or Geller. In fact, the public often requests material was done by (insert their favorite television magician).

I'm not sure even after all of these thirty-three years in magic that there IS a real code of ethics regarding stealing or using material. When it comes to paying the bills the ethereal facade of ethical behavior shamelessly goes out the window in favor of profit.

This is why many performers release their material before someone else can. So at least it is they who profit from its release. Okay there might be some ego involved too.

Using marketed and published material from the originator or with the originators permission is one thing but selling unpublished proprietary material is at best unethical.

This leads to the next question: How does technique differ from material? Is using different than selling? After all, bending a spoon is done by, well, bending the spoon! So where is the line between material and technique drawn? Is it the routine? Is it the move? Is it the script? Or is it each element individually and every combination thereof? I dont know the answer, Im not sure anyone does. Since I use a combination of original and commercially published techniques and my own scripts and presentation I dont wrestle with my conscience over this, but a good guide would be: if it feels wrong, it probably is.

While its true that no one ever became rich and famous performing as a Zeplin cover band, they did pay the bills. Thats the dilemma.

To learn how, it is best to check out all the sources you can ie. Banacheck, Bavli, Ben Harris, Richard Osterlind. In addition play with bent spoons, forks, nails ect. in front of a mirror and on video to possibly come up with you own techniques and variations.
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Postby Guest » 03/10/04 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Scott Chenow:
-Jeff, learn some respect for established menalists especially when posting a public question on a public message board.
Scott,

My original post was an inquiry for a video that was on the market. It was Paul who decided to chime in saying this was so passe. When in fact it is one of the selling features for his very own show...on his website. Here is an exact quote from that:
............................................
Bending Objects

With your own eyes, you will witness Paul bending spoons and keys among other objects.
............................................

Paul also gripes about people seling things on the websites. He does the same as well. But he is quick to blast anyone else that does these things.

So, Scott, before you suggest that someone learns to respect "established mentalists"...you should learn to research the entire thread before you comment and not just the part you like the most.

For the record, I have no problem with Paul. I have never met him and he may well be a terrific mentalist. I will, however, certainly let you know my thoughts if I think you are out of place.
You are free to dismiss them if you wish. No hard feelings.
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Postby Guest » 03/10/04 06:49 PM

I'm 37 years old and have never seen another mentalist perform. Sure I'd heard of metal bending and mind reading, but TV was as close to actually seeing it as I had ever been...

20 years ago in high school I had a classmate with the last name of Shaw... I remember we talked at lengths about his brother who was a "pretty good psychic" (his words, not mine).

Funny, that some 2 decades later I would be buying his brothers video to learn how to bend silverware.

I can use the Banachek routine start to finish at any given day on any given person and chances are that it's the first time they've actually seen such a site. People may have heard of it, may have even watched "Psychics Exposed"... but when the deed is done under their nose, they've truely seen it. My wife is privy to a lot of things I do, but every "tine bend" will have her jaw-dropped like she's just seeing it for the first time.

Spoon bending passe? Hardly.

BTW, PK Silverware is a great resource. :)
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/10/04 08:03 PM

Ooops... accidentally stumbled in here (the Mentalism forum) and have one comment about spoon bending.

Finn Jon was on a TV Talk Show that had Uri Geller the week before.

The host asked Finn if he could bend a spoon, and placed one on the table.

Finn said, "Why should I want to bend a spoon when I can do this.........?


Just then the spoon stood up and hopped across the table to the host.

:D :D :D
Stay tooned.
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Postby Guest » 03/11/04 10:04 AM

Spoon bending may seem pass to magicians and mentalists, but I'll bet I could take a poll of the 250 people here at my place of work... and not one of them will have ever seen a mentalist, let alone a mentalist bending a spoon. At best, a few of them will have heard of "some guy back in the 70's" who could do that.

Most of the things we do, whether they're brand new or 500 years old, are still pretty far from "pass " to the average Joe.
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Postby Guest » 03/11/04 02:32 PM

Jeff,

Let's clarify several things.
#1 - Spoon Bending, Book tests, the use of blindfolds, This all seem to be what everyone that is trying to jump on the mentalism bandwagon is doing, hence my comments. Ask the general public about magicians and they will usually tell you that the last magician they saw perform did the same tricks as the one before. Most people that call a booking agency asks for a magician, not one in particular. They know they want some tricks and do not usually care about whi it is.

These guys are all doing the same things. I do a spoon bend in a much larger context and the publicist that wrote the piece on my web site happened to focus on that. The context I use it in is the power of the mind and how it can be used to focus your energies towards various items. The talk then goes to Uri geller (who was one that sparked my original interest in the paranormal) and as such it is a quick demo of what he did. nothing more. I do not use it as an entire show piece and in the last two years (maybe more actually) I only use it when working in bars. My more formal stage shows and corporate venues do not have me doing that in them. I use them in the bar situations ebcause of the visibility and only because of that.

So again, my complaint is that so many that are attempting their hand at mentalism are falling into the same trap as magicians. Let5's all do the same things. The tricks of the week.

#2, I do not have public access to AB Stagecraft. If you go to http://www.mindguy.com you will NOT find a link to our store. Why on earth would I want the lay public to have access to my web store, access to my book which tips material from my actual shows?!?!?! Magicians and mentalists are given access to the web store which has a link back to my main site but not the other way round. So you might have a little appology for me I hope.

You may find me very strong in my beleifs and find I voice them BUT you will find that they are usually justified and that I am not saying one thing and doing another. You might be better to ask for clarification instead especially when in a public forum.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
AB Stagecraft
http://www.mindguy.com/store
NO lay people allowed!!! See Jeff, just for you.
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Postby Guest » 03/11/04 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Paul Alberstat:
I do not have public access to AB Stagecraft. So you might have a little apology for me I hope.
This part is true. Sorry for 'that' accusation.
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Postby Guest » 03/12/04 12:03 AM

jeff, respect master spoon benders too, namely me.

Just kidding. That advice was given to me so i just passed it along.

Mr. alberstat can chime in on anything he chooses so can I, its a public board. if you want discression join a private group. But first I guess you'd have to be a good enough mentalist.
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