Mental Epic Style Effect with paper

Instead of mentally projecting your mentalism thoughts, type them here.

Postby Guest » 04/21/06 09:41 PM

I have been trying to do a Mental Effect with 3 business cards... (like BANACHEK's). His handling involves a series of "simple card sleights" in order to number the predictions in plain sight... secretly arranging them in the desired order.
Can anyone help me figure out a way of doing this effect with a regular SINGLE FORCE (Mental Epic) and numbering the cards in plain sight..... I know there must be a combination of sleights to acomplish this in an apparent CLEAN manner... no need to reveal HOW the sleights are done, just the order.. sorry.... have tried for a while and I am absolutely blocked....
Obviously this can be done by tossing all the papers in a hat in no particular order..... but writing the actual order number adds the "controlled experience" factor....

Postby Guest » 04/22/06 12:05 AM

This was written up in Bascom Jones' Magick some years back. I don't have the precise issue. It used 5 x 7 card and worked as you suggest, with simple sleights.

I've done it for some years - Mental Epic without the slate - and it is quite strong. Worth digging up in Magick.

Postby Guest » 04/22/06 07:28 AM

Instead of diferent sleights,I found Osterlinds method of getting signatures on the cards more impressive.It is in his DVD vol 4(in the now upgraded 7 vol set),if I am not mistaken.U can modify it to use numbers and use the force and one-ahead and use more than 3 cards..

Postby Guest » 04/23/06 01:48 PM

There are several possibilities for the effect you're describing. There is a subtelty by I believe Ted Karmilovitch that is used for numbering the cards but that is not in print. There is Stanley Jaks idea (See Best of Mental Wise) using three pieces of paper and NO force and is one of my favourite totally impromtu pieces. There is also two of Jack Dean's effects that fit the bill. One being "Objective" that involves you placing objects on the table, writing something on your business card and placing it face down on the table, having someone pick up a single object and placing it to the side, repeating this several times and showing that you did predict each object as selected. The other one is his "BrainSpree" which is "Mental Epic" with 3 numbered envelopes, the envelopes do all the work.

PSIncerely yours,
Paul Alberstat
AB StageCraft

Postby Guest » 04/23/06 02:22 PM

Wayne Dobson has a version in his book, "Dobson's Choice - The Final Cut." It's called TLC.

He uses three cards labeled T, L & C, which stand for Think of something, Look at something, and Choose something.

It's well worth the price of the book, as are most of the other effects contained therein. --Mitch Dutton

Postby Guest » 04/23/06 08:50 PM

Dan Garrett has a handling using three pieces of paper and three different colored markers. The different colors clearly identify the order in which the predictions were made, and the spectator chooses a color to start with. This routine uses a "psychological subtlety" for the force, thereby appearing as a no-force trick, and the revelations work backwards so that any miss on the subtlety is ultimately overshadowed by more accurate revelations.



Postby Guest » 04/24/06 01:25 AM

Tried to find something about Garrett's effect in the Net.... no luck... do you know the name of this effect?..... (gaffed markers??).... because of the fact that I am NOT a professional magician, any prop or gimmick would be totally "out of character"... that's why I am trying to solve it the most direct and "casual" way... three pieces of paper (or business cards), one ahead principle, ONE FORCE... and whatever sequence of "false counts" or double lifts necesary to acchieve a believeable "plain view" numbering of the cards... a la Banacheck. Thanks for the replies.

Postby Guest » 04/24/06 01:41 AM

I think Timothy Wenk of Misled fame has a method in his lecture notes that just uses a series of double lifts. I'll try to find my set to check.

Postby Guest » 04/24/06 04:08 AM

Dan Garrett's routine is called "Epic Marked Down" and yes, there is some work in the markers, but they appear to be just everyday sharpies from the office supply, so there's no "magic prop" issues. The paper can be index cards, business cards, post-it notes, whatever.

You might try contacting him at -- I don't know if the routine is for sale but mention that I was bragging on it here and sparked your interest. I can't speak for Dan, but I know he's a generous guy. The routine wasn't included in the lecture notes but at the very least he might be willing to include it as an add-on if you purchase some of his notes or something.


Postby Guest » 04/24/06 06:44 AM

The Dan Garrett routine mentioned by Joe appears in a special manuscript Dan published exclusively for Ring 9 in Atlanta, GA. It is an excellent presentation. Part of Dan's inspiration for his fine effect comes from my own 'Epic Proportions' which can be found in the One-Man Parade in the July 2002 issue of TLR.

All this talk of using double-lifts and double-turnover techniques for pulling off the effect has me concerned. Years ago, I developed a simple variation that uses nothing but three business cards, three small bank envelopes and the same script presentation from 'Epic Proportions'. I published it under the title 'Easy Epic' in a manuscript called 'Hoodwinkings--A Mentalism Act in Six Parts'. Without going into too much methodology...once the prediction cards are put into the envelopes, double-lifts and turnovers allow each envelope to be properly mis-labeled (sorry about that oxymoron).

I pray I haven't reinvented the wheel.


Postby Bob Farmer » 04/24/06 07:16 AM

A very interesting method, "Just A Little Prediction," is explained in the booklet FORESHADOWED by Jack Yates (edited by Ken de Courcy, published by Supreme Magic, 1979).

The cards arer labelled A, B, and C, but the "a" on the first card becomes the "a" in the prediction, "Jack of Spades," which is forced on spectator c.
Bob Farmer
Posts: 1848
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Short card above selection.

Postby Guest » 05/14/06 04:13 AM

Some years ago Doug Alker, the deaf and dumb magician came out of retirement to present a lecture for me.He has never gone back into magic although he won several competitions with a silent act.He did give me a Mental Epic routine using 5 blank postcards. No sleights just the ability to turn 3 postcards and then 4 over as one.
Allen Tipton UK

Postby Guest » 05/14/06 01:29 PM

Thanks a million for your fast response and your inmediate the help (Allen).... and all those nice suggestions you all have given me... I'll make sure to check them out.

Postby Guest » 05/15/06 07:15 AM

There is also a great version using 3 blank playing or visiting cards in my friend Roy Johnson's 4th. book Final Call( though he wrote 2 more after the Final one) It is called Tri Pred on pages 35 40.
Allen Tipton UK

Postby Guest » 05/28/06 04:25 PM

Also check out Anthony Lindan's "Fortune and Fate," if you can find it.

Postby Guest » 04/05/07 09:15 PM

There is also one in the Richey Technique (with envelopes) and in Unexpected (without envelopes).

I did some fiddling with this stuff shortly after learning the Richey Technique. It wasnt tough to make some minor adjustments to eliminate the envelopes. Somehow though, it didnt play as strong for me. It seemed like the envelopes made things more deceptive. Im not quite sure why. Maybe, without envelopes, it reminded them of a card trick. Who knows...

Postby Guest » 04/08/07 03:45 AM

A nice twist is there in a book by Sam Dalal and I dont recollect who...the book is titled someything like Magic in a Morris manor.There is stand and the slips of paper are put in a box hanging from a chain and there is 'number' at the end of the's an adaptation of a silk trick in Tarbell....three separate silks kept on a stand...become knotted.

Postby Guest » 04/29/07 03:05 AM

I'm pulling from long term memory now, but there was a magic shop in the Fort Worth, Texas (with a name similar to Magic Inc., I believe) that had a single business card mental epic handling. The card was torn to make the areas to write, but was not fully torn apart. I had it at one time, but can't remember the inventor or the name.

Strike a chord with anyone?

Postby Guest » 04/29/07 08:47 AM

I have not followed this thread from the beginning so I may be repeating a suggestion already made. However, the post above reminded me about a mental Epic type trick with one page from a small note book that is torn into three pieces. The three pieces are in top, middle and bottom orientation so the audience can follow which piece apparently belongs to which person's thought. It can be found in T. A. Waters' book, "Mind, Myth and Magic"

Postby Guest » 05/02/07 02:14 PM

Fedko had one using a spiral notepad on one of his tapes. I saw him lecture and it was a fantastic method. :)

Where is the one in MM&M?

Postby Guest » 05/02/07 06:18 PM

I believe it's call "Triposte," one of the better, more practical items in the entire book.

Postby Guest » 07/18/07 10:22 AM

Since I'm more than a senior citizen, KISS is important for me. My version of Mental Epic is to take a pad and write the numbers 1,2,3 with a line drawn next to each number. This I tear off and give to a spec. I then dulicate this on the next sheet and show to the audience. I then "write" something next to each number. When finished I give the pencil to the spec who will write down each answer from the audience participants to my three questions such as a color, a number, etc. When finished I give my sheet to the helper who will confirm that we agree with each answer.

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