Cold reading books

Instead of mentally projecting your mentalism thoughts, type them here.

Postby Guest » 03/30/04 05:57 PM

hi,,

i am very interest in cold reading
but this passionis pretty expensive

i would like to exchange books on this subject

please contact me at

fredperpignan@hotmail.com
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Postby Guest » 03/31/04 08:07 AM

I assume you mean exchanging permanently, original copies of the books
from
Ford
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Postby Guest » 04/03/04 12:40 PM

THere are 2 GREAT audio CDs out called Further Commercial Cold Readings by Webster!
I can get them for $19.95 each and ship them to you if you'd like.
e-mail me MagicAppleStore@hotmail.com
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Postby Guest » 04/13/04 04:51 AM

Have you tried Lee Earle's Audio CD ' The Gentle Art of Cold Reading '?

PS: Sorry. Don't have books to exchange... anyway that would prove more costly as I am in India ;-)
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Postby Guest » 04/22/04 06:15 AM

I cannot recommend "The Full Facts about Cold Reading" by Ian Rowland enough.

It concentrates on the fake psychic reading aspects, but the list of techniques is easily transposed into part of an effect.

It's the most comprehensive list of techniques I've come across and is fluently written with great examples.

You can only get it on his website on www.ianrowland.com
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Postby Guest » 04/22/04 08:36 AM

I haven't seen [censored]' video, but I did listen to an audio tape he produced. Biggest bunch of twaddle, I've ever heard. It contained a recording of a radio interview, as I recall, with Mark attempting to do a reading. Less than impressive. A long pompous pontification on ethics
A subject which based by hos own posts on variious forums, that he has little direct experience
As I said I havent seen the video, but based on the audio, save your money
Of course this is strictly my opinion
from
Ford
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Postby Guest » 04/22/04 09:20 AM

I just purchased the book "the Dance". It is a graduate course for anyone interested in cold reading. Definately not a beginners book. Anyone who performs cold readings will learn some basics that everyone overlooks but tht really help anchor the client into the reading.

Surprising enough, a good book I started with was Tradecraft from trickshop.com . Their really nice guys over there. While I believe learning a system is best, this book has a lot of psychological statistics that will help you get the "Validation" needed by the spectator.
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Postby Joe Z » 04/22/04 11:01 AM

The most knowledgeable and experienced professional readers consistently mention the writings and products of Richard Webster, Herb Dewey, Ford Kross, and Ron Martin as the best current work on this subject.

More recently, Brad Henderson's "The Dance" has been widely praised. Also mentioned alot are the Full Facts book by Rowland and "Completely Cold" by Knepper. IMO, the former is a well-researched compendium of "cold reading" techniques for magicians and the latter is an overpriced booklet of complete crap.

Pick your poison.

Joe Z.
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Postby Guest » 04/22/04 02:30 PM

I have never had the pleasure of reading anything by Mr. Lewis, however I had borrowed a book (from a friend who will remain nameless, Mr. Kross only sells to a select few and I don't think i'm of that league yet) written by Mr. Kross. I have to say that the principles within his various material is very advanced. Its taking mentalism to a whole new level of performance. I don't want to give too much away but I will say this: "Theres a line where an ordinary mentalism trick can be presumedto be just a trick. Mr. Kross, however, shows concepts and spins on how to add a new dimension onto that trick to make it a true earth shattering illusion/effect."

If his cold reading material is anything like the 3 manuscripts I've read, I'm sure they are very good.

Other sources: Red Hot Cold Reading, VERY good book, it might be out of print but you can pick it up on ebay once and a while.
King of the Cold Readers: Its not bad. I read it after reading several others and found the material to be adequite and repetetive of what I had previously written. This not a sour crack at the author just an opinion after reading several others.

Try Mr. Websters legit material on palm reading. I find that a large percentage of my clients are inclined to believe that palm reading is more accurate and acceptible then other forms of divination.

You'll be surprised by the results you receive once you use a legit system of divination.

Feel free to email me if you'd like any more info.
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Postby Guest » 04/22/04 04:31 PM

You should certainly read everything you can lay your hands on with regard to cold reading. Even that nasty book by Ian Rowland who has never done a paid reading in his life.Furthermore I am becoming highly suspicious of the similarities between his work and the Danny Korem book mentioned on another thread. I wonder where Ian did his research.

The Herb Dewey books you mention are adequate but certainly not the best stuff. As for Kenton Knepper either you like him or you don't. I don't and neither does any experienced reader I have ever met. It is the only thing that I and Grumpy Guts have ever agreed on in our long history of arguing because we are both bored.

Richard Webster is all you really need of course. He is the best thing out there. Oh, and me of course. I may prove all this shortly by cutting and pasting some information that you have missed and have not had the time or energy to seek out. I do know that all your nightclubbing and chasing women leaves you very little energy to learn anything.

However you are in the presence of a master psychic. I have done thousands and thousands of readings and I do not sleep with my clients as Mr Kross is alleged to do.
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Postby Guest » 04/22/04 08:37 PM

Originally posted by [censored]:
Scott, my boy. I can assure you that there is no greater authority on cold reading than myself....
Whose assurance can we take that your assurance is reliable?

I hate to sound like a right-wing wacko, but there is the character question.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 04/23/04 01:03 PM

Scott, [censored] has the credentials. If you are lucky he'll allow you to carry his bags and watch over his shoulder.
Steve V
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Postby Guest » 04/23/04 01:30 PM

Dr. Zodiac,
You claim that we are making fun of you, but as I read all the post from the last few days, I can not find a single one that makes fun of you. What I do find is people questioning things that you are saying and looks like you are getting frustrated by it. For what reason? Well you have to answer that. It's you that have attacked me, opie and Mr. Lewis. This is the second time you have. I do know you are a big poster at another forum that if anyone says "anything" against another member they are booted. May be that's what you are waiting for. I think the moderators here do a great job and occasionally have to do that, but as you can see, I dont think "we" have. (ok, Mr. Lewis's last post)

And to set the record straight, I do on occasion, have the pleasure of working magic shops, I see nothing wrong with people that do. I enjoy having free time and spending down at one.

Coffee opie?
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Postby opie » 04/23/04 02:01 PM

Jarrett, I am actually so hurt by the kid's last post that I think I am going to need a martini instead of coffee (in another couple of hours). I cannot believe that he does not like my readings that I linked above. I had a lot of fun drafting them from the sources I mentioned, and I did it just to play around with them. (I would bet some pretty good money that he made copies...hehe).

I agree with Steve V that the kid would be lucky to be able to look over Mark's shoulder, but the kid would have to grow a lot to see over it.

Enjoy the coffee. I think I will chill some nice white wine; Mary and I are having chef salad with cold chicken tonight. Italian bread, thin sliced, with garlic butter.... but you knew that, didn't you? (I know the kid has no idea how much experience he is talking to.)

Walter Gibson did some general books on various genres of mentalism, including cold reading. In fact, he did several that touched on many topics, such as palm reading, etc. It might be a good idea to start collecting them, before all the "Shadow" collectors snap them up. (But, of course, the kid will say that that is old stuff.)

opie
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Postby Brad Henderson » 04/23/04 02:30 PM

It is a shame that every thread where someone has made a statement or posted a question about mentalism inevitably begins devolving into these personal spats and conversations that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. So, in an attempt to get back on topic:

Though a lot of magicians take issue with Ian's book, I think it is a great resource as a compilation of the types of tools available to the reader. Not only was he very thorough, but his book is well structured and written.

I do not agree with the "baiting sections" or "anti-psychic attitude" and Ian knows this, however it does not detract from the value of his book as a source for understanding what constitutes a reading from a content/form perspective.

I tried in my book to focus on process. Interestingly this was before reading Ian's book which handles "content" very well. They make a great combination.

Gene Nielson has a book on Counseling Techniques for the Private Reader which I enjoyed quite a bit.

Also, a major influence on me was Jones's King of the Cold Readers. That was the book which got me empassioned about reading.

I will agree with [censored] in saying, however, that you are not just entertaining people when you perform readings, even in an entertainment context. People, regardless of how strong of a disclaimer you may use, will take your words to heart. Not always, but sometimes. In my mind, treating EACH situtation as one of those potential moments is important, because we want to empower, not harm. Even "joke" readings run the risk of being taken seriously. So, please, before you read, think!
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Postby opie » 04/23/04 04:19 PM

Jarrett, it has been a hoot....but, I don't want to be accused of "chatting", which I suppose we were doing. At the risk of being ostrasized for having a good time, I would like to say that the chef salad, garlic toast, and wine were great; Mary was happy that I had supper made for her...

...I am going to make a psychic prediction: My evening will be very nice....readings tonight will be warm and cozy...

later.....opie
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Postby Guest » 04/24/04 09:16 AM

John has backed your credentials up.

Mr. Lewis, I stand corrected. I will pick up your videos and give them a try. I saw some become available recently, I am going to have to pick them up. I'll let you guys know what I think about them.

Brad, I know all too well of disclaimers and their tendency to not work. I seem to have clients that believe that I deny my gift of the supernatural. 60% of the individuals I give cold readings to, really believe that I touch upon a power that I dont know I have. Even after I disclaim what I do. I can't tell them its cold reading, that would be against our code of secrecy.
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Postby opie » 04/24/04 10:41 AM

Na habair e! Don't mention it!

opie
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Postby Guest » 04/24/04 11:06 AM

May I remind everyone that there are two sides to every story and that the truth usually lay somewhere in between the two. We have heard two sides to this story but in fact there are several others within that story that I have heard from and in fact suspect that as [censored] has one side yet I have heard from 3 separate sources a very similar story from THEIR side, that Mr. lewis as usual prefers only to see HIS truth as gospel.

The fact of the matter is that this is a MAGIC foruma nd not one for personal axes to be ground and perhaps it is time that this topic be locked and we move back to the magic and mentalism in this section.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
AB Stagecraft
http://www.mindguy.com/store
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Postby Guest » 04/24/04 11:13 AM

For you Mr. Lewis, no problem...I'll be at the Magic Circle next year, hope to meet you!
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Postby Brad Henderson » 04/24/04 02:21 PM

Scott,

I found your statement regarding secrets and cold reading to be odd. It seems to me that the purpose of reading is to help other people, and as long as they receive value from that reading, the method is inconsequential. That's why I advocate talking about the reading process (i.e. interpretation) as part of the reading itself. It is my experience that this approach helps the sitter become more involved in the reading and that they tend to walk away feeling the reading was more beneficial for them.

While I am not advocating exposure, I think the concept of "secrets" in a reading concept is misplaced. Now, you may not have meant it that way, but I just wanted to make sure the topic was addressed. In The Dance I talk at length about people using reading techniques to give themselves power over others. I feel this unheathly and unethical. Likewise, many magicians use secrets to give themselves power over others. Of course, that is not the real reason we should be protectiving our secrets, but sadly one that all too often is employed.

As we all know, in a reading environment, people may give our words greater meaning than they deserve. I do not believe that talking about where those words come from detracts the benefit one would receive from those words, assuming that the sitter believes (and that it is true) that those words stemmed from your observations of them. (In other words, the classic "cradle to grave script" I find a little creepy, because your words really have NOTHING to do with the sitter.)
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Postby opie » 04/24/04 02:33 PM

What?

opie
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Postby Guest » 04/24/04 05:17 PM

I have to agree with the great sage on the west coast when he wrote, "Perhaps the biggest myth of cold reading is that it is something that can be learned from a book and that it is some kind of a logical process that can be learned and applied by following certain sets of logical rules".
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Postby opie » 04/24/04 05:53 PM

West Coast Sage???

Would you please elaborate?

We all have different ways of learning, and I am not sure that books are not the prime source, as you stated. Books are certainly the prime sources of my knowledge of magic and related arts.

I do believe that ALL entertainers have to have some sort of charisma, in order to make it big, no matter how much knowledge and skill they have. As an old English teacher, I know that all the knowledge in the world will not make a good writer out of a person, until that person hones his/her writing skills. The application of skills, therefore, in my mind, is more important than a lot of theory.

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Postby Johnny Mystic » 04/24/04 08:46 PM

I agree with Opie...I have learned everything I know from books and experience...man I only got 2 majic videos and I have only had them for about 2 yrs.!!!!

Also from what I've learned it's harder too get people to believe in magic than it is in mentalism and I'm a MAGICIAN not a MENTALIST!

peopele are easily more prone to believe in what mentalists do than a magician.

I'm a magician and I make people believe!!! It's too easy to make them believe in what mentalists do...at least for me it is!

ha ha ha!

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Postby Brad Henderson » 04/24/04 11:13 PM

Originally posted by johnny mystic:
I agree with Opie...I have learned everything I know from books and experience...man I only got 2 majic videos and I have only had them for about 2 yrs.!!!!

Also from what I've learned it's harder too get people to believe in magic than it is in mentalism and I'm a MAGICIAN not a MENTALIST!

peopele are easily more prone to believe in what mentalists do than a magician.


Johnny Mystic
It is a shame that none of those books to which you refer were grammar texts.

Having said that, I think that people are inherently more interested in mental phenomena than magical ones, and you may be confusing that with their willingness to believe. This is both a boon and burden for the mentalist.

However, if you look at the work of Mr. Maric you will see he had little problem convincing many people in the "reality" of magic, presenting it as he did in a mental context.

So, it comes down then not to the nature of magic per se, but the manner in which it is presented to the audience. As long as we offer childish presentations, we will be treated childishly; rude presentations, rudely. However, when we share believable presentations I think one finds people willing to believe or at least, as Bob Neale so eloquently put it, "to make believe."

And if they believe, in either case, so what? Is that our goal - to make them believe; or is it as Suzanne Langer posits - to provide for the audience "a feelingful response?" That is the role of the artist. Belief is not required for that to be successful.
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Postby Guest » 04/25/04 08:10 AM

Hello Opie,
Sure to paraphrase, cold reading is a right brain activity and the best readers do it on a subconscious level. The best way learn is do it all the time, and not just in the context of a reading. You can, and should read from books on the subject, but it's best learned by people watching.
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Postby opie » 04/25/04 10:55 AM

Jarrett: The best instructional lesson plans have reading, watching, and doing. All are good.

The person searching for low-cost cold reading material should read back through this thread and pick out the tips that include all of the above, especially those which provide suggested low-cost material in the library. Get the practical stuff; you don't need a lot of theory, until you are ready to write your great work which will help few and will be read by even less. Library: subjects such as psychological tests, palm reading, astrology, numerology, etc.

Write yourself some scripts that contain words that will appeal to all the senses: sight, smell, taste, feel, oral, and some things that touch the emotions. The more senses you can touch in your spiel, the more effective your readings will be. I would seriously recommend that you also write one serious one and one just based on humorous stuff.

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Postby Brad Henderson » 04/25/04 11:28 AM

The problem with doing anything without a theoretical understanding, is that one becomes limited into having to perform only as one has performed before.

If you can look at a situation and think, "You know if I did this, then I bet this would happen," then you are operating on a theoretical level. You are using your knowledge and experience to draw conclusions that probably work. That is a theory, which of course you will test out. Now, is there not value in being able to codify these theories so you KNOW what is going to work in given situations, every time, or at least for the vast majority? Do you have to make these experiments yourself EVERY time, or is there not value in reading the works of others who have been down those paths already?

So to say you can present readings by ignoring theory is short sighted and dangerous. Why? One, because it is stagnating for growth. If you only learn the "literal" than your imagination will never flourish, you are limited to the "practical" as it is set before you. Second, because it implies that all you need is one script and you can read for everyone. This is simply wrong, in fact most practicing readers find the notion of forcing scripts onto people, without really listening to the sitter, to be repugnant. It is also not a kind thing to do for someone who cares about what your reading has to say for them. If you believe that "cold reading" consists only of generalized statements woven into a script, you have no idea what cold reading is.

So, the best books on cold reading, at least if you want to base your opinions on the reviews of those who actually "do" present cold readings, are those that have moved beyond this simplistic notion of the "all fitting script" and have addressed what consititues a reading, and how to navigate that. When you have a strong theoretical foundation, then you will have more options to pursue in your practices.

As for cost, in my mind that is irrelevant. Doctors don't say, "You know, why do I need this modern medicial book, it's so expensive, they have tons of medical books from the 1920's in our library. That's the classic medicine there...." Why anyone would advocate not looking at all material available on a subject confuses me. If you want to excel, then you should place every resource at your disposal and definately those that are considered to be the best. Why cheat your education and your audiences over the chance to save a few bucks. If you intend to perform (or read) then that money will come back to you, either in fees or in the reward of doing a great job. If neither of those situations apply, then perhaps its time to consider another field.
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Postby Johnny Mystic » 04/25/04 12:16 PM

Yes Brad once again you are right(mentalist usually are ya know) none of my books are grammer books. Thank you oh so much for pointing that out.

Your talking to a guy who dropped outta high school, left home and hit the road with a deck of cards and a T.T. all in the same day! I've been from the west coast to the east coast, which is where I finally settled and I still survive just fine Thanks to my knowledge of the magical arts.

Regretably due to my quick departure from school I missed out on a lot of things, however I was far too hungry for the real world to care at the time.

A messeage to all children...DO NOT DROP OUT OF SCHOOL it's not worth it!

other then that I still think it's easier to fool people with mentalism...

Johnny Mystic
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Postby opie » 04/25/04 12:24 PM

Johnny, the school of hard knocks is another way to learn...Hang in there, and keep on learning...

We have chatted on other boards, so you know how much success I wish you in your endeavors.

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Postby Brad Henderson » 04/25/04 02:11 PM

No, Johnny, you said, "peopele are easily more prone to believe in what mentalists do than a magician." This is different than saying that people are easier to fool with mentalism, as you did in your previous post. "Cultivating belief" and "being fooled" are two different phenomena, I would think someone making his way with a pack of cards would realize that.

It is just as difficult to "fool" people with mentalism, as the deceptive techniques are the same: secret device, secret action, scientific principle concealed, or psychology. The quality of deception in both are the same, the natural interest level on the part of the audience may be different.
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Postby opie » 04/25/04 04:07 PM

Hypnocheche: I am still trying to find you some low-cost information. Type the following searches ONE AT A TIME into google:

pseudo psychic readings
astrological readings
numerology readings
cold readings
psychological profiles

You should be able to find more data than you can use on the hits you get.

Hope I have been of help on this thread. Good luck in your quest...

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Postby Johnny Mystic » 04/25/04 04:18 PM

Thanx for the kind words Opie. It stung for a moment but I'm all better now...hehehe.

The reason I say it's easier ta fool people ,trick them, whatever kinda fancy educated way ya wannna call it is this...

I took an old piece of magic, the ball and tube and told a whoppin' lie and made a person believe in alien abductions, government conspiracies, life after death and the idea I could probe her mind. Eventually this person was in tears before I stopped...

I walked away thinking it was the best performance of my life and I was a magic God.
All I did was tell lie after lie after lie. It's just too easy ta lie. Here's sumthing for you mentalists...it was at least a 30 min routine and thats no lie!

I thought about it later and realized I really messed with her head and that making her believe in something that wasn't real was wrong...so those kinda performances stopped and I centered my magic and mindreading around comedy instead.

Alot of people over the past several years have been conditioned to believe and accept that phsycic readings and the like are real, so you mentalist have it easier now don't ya?

let's recap...tell really good lie's and the fact people already believe...

I'm sure this runs much deeper but I am of limited education please forgive me .

Johnny
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Postby Guest » 04/25/04 04:23 PM

Just to set the record straight, I love the written word.

The point I'm making is go to the Tarot or Palm Reader down the road and and treat yourself to a reading, I'm willing to bet they didn't sit down and read Dewey's books or Rowlands. These people have a great understanding of people and they did this by learning a system (tarot, palm,etc.) and doing it.
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Postby opie » 04/25/04 04:26 PM

Johnny, you have nothing to apologize for (See? I have two masters degrees and I use dangling prepositions).

We are kind of off topic, so I am leaving. Read the last post I made. It is the thread topic. Anything over and above responses such as the one I just made about low-cost "readings" material is not on topic.

See you over at our place...

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Postby Brad Henderson » 04/25/04 04:43 PM

Johnny,

If you tell the person the ball is shrinking and falling into the tube, you are still telling a lie. Whether they are laughing to "comedy" while you do it, is irrelevant.

Lies are lies..."the card jumps to the top" or "I make you believe this card is the one you just put in the middle by hypnotising you into believing."

So, I think your argument needs a little more thought.
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Postby Johnny Mystic » 04/25/04 05:16 PM

There is no doubt that magic is a lie within a lie,
but should we use those talents for entertainment such as comedy and the like or should we chance changing someones belief system with a lie? I'd rather not take the chance, I've seen what it can do.

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Postby Brad Henderson » 04/25/04 05:28 PM

So, then all plays and all novels and all movies should be about comedy? Why can't art challenge people's beliefs. It's ok for the other arts, why not magic. Seems like you are intent on trivializing something wonderful.
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Postby opie » 04/25/04 05:54 PM

Johnny, you are right....We all just need to realize that our "little lies" are ENTERTAINMENT BUT hopefully not boring, which I am sure you understand.

I like nice short entertaining pieces that do not drag down the eyelids.

There are some sample cold readings on the google searches I recommended in some posts above...

There is nothing wrong with comedy; otherwise, there would be no Shakespeare...WHAT? NO SHAKESPEARE? I would hate to think that the only entertainment in the world would be somebody trying to read my mind...

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