Mr. Racherbaumers new forum?

Discuss general aspects of Genii.

Postby Doomo » 12/31/02 03:44 PM

I read with interest the post by Jon Rock in announcements. I am sorry to say, that it seems destined to do nothing more than produce finger pointers and people whining to the teacher when they see something bad.

I like this forum sometimes... Sometimes not... But I talk to a lot of people at conventions and other places. The one thing most agree on as a complaint is heavy handed censorship is bad. It is not just here. Magictalk suffers from the same problem. Ask Tom Stone among MANY others.

Chopping peoples posts and banning them because you don't agree with them is no way to produce free discussion. It simply produces people afraid to say anything that causes others (in power) to disagree. And before anyone suggests it, I am not advocating free profanity day or yelling fire in a crowded theater. But people should be able to voice their ideas and feelings without fear of being slapped down. Which is not the current state of affairs...

I am not listing examples, but long time readers of this board can bring several to mind with little effort.

I wish you good luck in your endeavors.
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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 12/31/02 04:17 PM

Whoa!

Please, please, don't judge us so quickly.

This is NOT about wholesale or oppressive censorship. Vital discourse is about agreements AND disagreements, about thesis, antithesis, and SYNTHESIS.

We encourage dissent.

What we find objectionable on ALL Forums is the QUALITY and MOTIVATION of the disagreeements and the rough-and-tumble discourse. Very few of the swearing, vociferous loudmouths post real ARGUMENTS. Instead they traffick in invective and roughhouse rants. As they used to say on the docks I once worked, "They piss in the wind."

Hence...

If anyone (at this EARLY stage) is skeptical about the process of making this Forum more orderly and regulated, and if they prefer the anarchy and free-for-all atmosphere of other domains, at least let us play out our intentions...

So far this Forum has survived many months of activity, during which RK ousted several people, censored others, and otherwise told "disrupters" to take a hike.

Hey!

If anyone thinks this "place" is inhospitable or unfriendly, then they should simply switch the channel and go to other "places" where they can freely and rudely rant about the Genii Forum and the _________ (use your favorite expletive)moderators who ruining the "place" and suppressed the brilliant speeches of freedom-loving geniuses!

And please, Doomo, don't assume that I'm singling you out. Your post simply was the one to raise these issues. Personally, I hope you stick around and add your agreements and disagreements and (I hope) reasoned arguments.

Onward...
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Postby Dave Egleston » 12/31/02 04:21 PM

Doomo:

Shake it off!!!

Just because someone bitches about a post - Doesn't mean an automatic deletion -

The postings that I'm aware of, that got blasted, weren't necessarily deleted because of of dissention - More to the point - stupidity is the ruling factor - You have to admit - Some of the posts that people have gotten deleted were FLAT OUT stupid - Funny - but stupid.

So just take a deep cleansing breath - it'll be OK

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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 12/31/02 04:23 PM

Ah, the voice of reason.
Thanks, Dave.

Onward...
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Postby Guest » 12/31/02 05:05 PM

I for one comend you all for a wonderful job on here and wish you all a healthy, happy and prosperous new year! As Rocky would say "Onward", and as Biro would say "Stay tooned!".
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/Abstagecraft
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Postby Scott » 12/31/02 05:55 PM

One of the most difficult things for people to understand about message boards on the internet is the amount of trash they collect. Trash, meaning, human waste, garbage, parasites on society, all with technical abilities that allow them to tap into a place to be disruptive.

I moderated a board for years and heard the same complaints over and over. My advice is to give me your email address and let me email you every post I delete, so you can get a true picture of what trash is deleted. It was always VERY rare for anything to be edited or "censored" for content, other than just people trying to piss others off and send virtual hate messages via the message board.

Being a moderator is a thankless job. Don't delete anything (as some suggest) and you'll end up with the quality people complaining how the standards of the board have gone to the dogs. Edit a post and you're accused of censorship. Without the constant deletion of snail droppings posted by people trying to start arguments,the core quality people won't post. After all, imagine for a moment that there were 5 times the postings we see now on a daily basis. Now, imagine if 4 out of 5 of them were from people just looking for trouble or an after school hobby. Would you be anxious to return to the forum and see a light next to a new topic?

Answer....no. You'd say to yourself "I wonder what kind of crap is on the board today".

With moderation, it brings the best of the best out to the board and they STAY, which is the intent, I would imagine.

I say "Keep up the good work Mod. Team" and roll on (unless you use a stick deodorant).

There, I said it.
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Postby Robert Kane » 12/31/02 06:08 PM

Thanks again to Jon and Richard. The Genii Forum is awesome and I don't feel that it is a place where one fears to share a reasoned opinion. Keep up the great work!
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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 12/31/02 06:23 PM

HAPPY NEW YEAR
to everyone and may
the Positive Forces be with you...

Dance on...
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Postby Guest » 12/31/02 06:31 PM

It is a very difficult line to tread; what is disruptive? And is that always a bad thing? On the other hand, do we want to wade through massive amounts of BS to find the good stuff?

Magic has suffered from excessive whitewashing and a general attitude among some publishers that would make Walt Disney feel straitjacketed, while other arts got looser and wilder, and of course, got more eyeballs as a result. But having followed Mr. Racherbaumer's publishing career (btw, thank you for The Hierophant, my copies are held together with spit and wishes now, having been mauled more than most of the things in my library) I don't think there's any immediate cause for alarm.

Maybe (if it's possible) a preference could allow us to killfile posters by IP address? The same way I throw out junk mail without looking at it? That would be the best way, as we would all be our own censors, as we are in the real world. Whatever that is.

Best,

Geoff
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Postby Scott » 12/31/02 07:22 PM

Geoff, the problem with blocking IP addresses is it only works for people who have static IP addresses. Anyone who uses a dial up internet service won't get the same IP address unless it's by sheer luck. The primary part will remain the same, but the the rest of the address will be that of which ever server it ends up connecting with.

If everyone were on cable modems, life would be easy!

From my standpoint, this is one of the highest quality boards on magic (if not, the highest) on the internet. It's great because of the moderation, not in spite of the moderation. There must be a couple 100 others out there on magic, and we all seem to come here. Why is that? Probably because of the talent and great discussions on here vs. the garbage people have to weed through to get to the good threads on other boards. I've seen many good, talented people come and go to other boards due to the frustration of sifting through crap. The retention rate here seems to be very high.

Happy New Year!
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Postby Doomo » 12/31/02 08:17 PM

This is pretty much what I expected...

As I said in my original post, there are parts of this board that I like...and parts that I don't.

I am not advocating throwing out the baby with the bath water.

I am not saying there are not people who are a pain in the ass, but as I said, there are other instances where people with valid, but dissenting, opinions were banned, their posts edited and history rewritten.

This I do object to most strongly. As I said, it has happened here and it still happens on Magic Talk. I have been a member of TSD since its inception, and there have only been a two bannings in that time, and a handful of editings because of "obscene" language. This is not to say there haven't been BITTER arguments in that forum, but Jason's credit, he tends to have a hands off policy. True, part of the problems are avoided by making TSD a pay site, but at $20 a year, (that's a nickel a day), I am not really sweating the cost.

Basically Jon, I feel that by encouraging people to turn in other people for perceived wrongs is simply encourage petty behavior on the part of people who want to manage other people's actions.

My wife points out that once the whistle is blown, and you decide it is a false alarm, what happens then? How is the whistleblower going to feel? Is that person slighted? and won't it only cause ill feelings among the members? "After all, what was the whistle put there for if you are going to ignore it?"

And what happens if said whistle blower gets several of his like-minded friends together, and they complain to you about someone? Is this person now an "untouchable", to be shunned or banned? After all, the whistle's been blown. And you know as well as I, "all them people can't be wrong!"

Basically what I think is that there should be clear criteria concerning bannings and editings. It should not be a popularity (or lack there of) contest. It's just like in those old westerns, the train would be going along...and any idiot could reach up and grab the cord that stops the train. I would hate to see this train derailed, because some "idjit" decided he was the conductor and could pull that cord. So far it's been a fun ride, except for a few people being thrown off the train and some people stealing their luggage.
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Postby Guest » 12/31/02 08:24 PM

Scott, I essentially agree with everything you say.

Nevertheless.

I'm just putting out a voice that says, "Ok, moderate, but carefully, and, if in doubt, let in more, rather than less."

Or, to put it another way, freedom is more important than politeness, and censorship, if it has to be done at all, must be done with deliberate, thoughtful care. That's all.

From what I've seen, we're in good hands. But we'll see. Or maybe not, which is my point.

Best,

Geoff
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Postby Guest » 12/31/02 08:28 PM

Doomo has some serious, well thought out points there.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 12/31/02 08:31 PM

Originally posted by Doomo:
This is pretty much what I expected...
I seem to have had a post deleted when it referenced a gag manuscript about a 'Perfect Coin Vanish'.

Will posts be deleted for mention that 'sawing a woman in half' is a heinous sexist act which only started once women were given the right to vote?

Will posts be deleted for mention that most magic texts describe in detail procedure though not motivation?

Just which scared cows must we revere and which can we serve tartar or well done?

There is some merit to moderating personal, crude and base language intended to disrupt discussion, personal attack and violation of other people's intellectual property.

I will wait and see how things go. I remain uncomfortable after a message of mine seems to have been deleted without explanation or discussion.
Mundus vult decipi
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Postby Guest » 12/31/02 08:40 PM

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
I seem to have had a post deleted when it referenced a gag manuscript about a 'Perfect Coin Vanish'.
Hey Jon, I have a copy of that signed by the gagster himself.

Irv Tannen himself told me they sold a few before they had to stop. What a riot.

Best,

Geoff
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/31/02 09:18 PM

Jonathan, I don't think any of us deleted your post.
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Postby Larry Horowitz » 12/31/02 10:36 PM

I for one would like to see all members using their real names, no cyber nick-names. The inability to hide will cause everyone to consider their posts and realize that they must be willing to stand behind what they write. This will cause us all to self edit. Alot of big mouths will be scared off.

I think there is nothing wrong with monitors editing the posts. However, the monitors should be a small group 4 to 5 people, not just one or two.

In general all of our posts are good reading. We should all realize that there is a difference between a joke that falls flat and a truly vindictive tirade.

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Postby Guest » 12/31/02 10:49 PM

Originally posted by Larry Horowitz:
I for one would like to see all members using their real names, no cyber nick-names.
Larry
What an excellent idea.
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Postby Steve Hook » 12/31/02 11:27 PM

Interesting that the loudest complainer in this thread is someone known to have ripped off routines from other magicians. Must be proactive guilt.

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Postby Alain Roy » 01/01/03 10:13 AM

I like skillful moderation. I watched many USENET groups disintegrate due to lack of moderation--useful discussion was buried under spam or mindlessness. This caused people posting useful material to leave, and things spiraled away into uslessness.

I admit that it is possible to use moderation in a way that cuts off good and productive discussion. However, given that this is a private forum, not a public forum, let's not carry on about censorship. No one is preventing anyone from stating their views when a post is deleted--they just can't state them here. There are other ways to publish your view. There is no right, constitutional or otherwise, to be allowed to post here.

Given that some people are worried about censorship, here is an off-the-cuff idea of how to deal with it. Every time a post is deleted, move it to a read-only forum. Discussion can't happen there, but people can see the lousy posts that have been removed, and perhaps their fears will be abated.

Now that I reflect on this, I'm not sure it's a good idea. What if I make a libelous post filled with invective about how Mr. Kaufman runs Genii? We don't want other people to read it and form poor opinions of Mr. Kaufman because of it, yet we may want to let people know what was removed and why, so that we can deal easily with angry posts about censorship.

I'm not sure what the solution is.

-alain, who is happy with the Genii Forum
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Postby Doomo » 01/01/03 10:21 AM

Steve,

I can only assume you are referring to me. Funny how a discussion of one topic ends up on this. That's excellent argument by merit! If you can't make a point through logic, throw some mud.

As to what you are referring to: My name is Anthony Miller. Yes I did do that almost twenty years ago. Since then I have tried to make for my actions with the person involved and with others. What I did was wrong...but that has nothing to do with the topic under discussion.

Once again Mr. Hook, brilliant reasoning. I can see you led your debate team in high school with logic and a good bucket of mud.

BTW, Doomo has been my nickname in magic and other places for 25 years now...
RFA Productions yeah... It is cool stuff.

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Postby pduffie » 01/01/03 10:34 AM

I think people should be allowed to continue posting under any name they wish - however - I would like to see a line added to the profile where their real name is entered. This would be mandatory, and any profile where this line is blank, that person would be given a warning - then, if they choose to ignore it, they are deleted from the forum.

I also think the whistle should go for reasons given above.

Regards

Peter
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Postby Doomo » 01/01/03 10:49 AM

Sorry for intruding people... I will go back to lurk mode. I thought I was voicing an actual concern. Evidently I should learn to mind my own business.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/01/03 11:37 AM

It is already much too ingrained in the Internet that using an alias is an accepted thing for us to try and stop it now.
Frankly, I find the use of pseudonyms to be intriguing since it's fun to try and figure out who these people are. Anyone is free to use their real or NOT real name--I don't really think it matters as long as they behave.
On another subject, I take Tony Miller at his word that he's put his past long behind him: he's doing a good job with Channel One. He's welcome here at the Forum and I hope he decides to continue to contribute.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 01/01/03 01:13 PM

Not all posts that get deleted are offensive or stupid. Some of the interchange about who was able to buy some of RK's rare books disappeared, and the worst you could say about it was that it was banal.

The Genii Forum is becoming a record of the early 21st century community of magic. There's some truly valuable stuff in here -- I've gone back and re-read the thread on 3-Fly a couple times. The more it is censored, the less valuable it becomes. The more it is censored, the less faith I have that it is really a record of what happened, than it is a record of the sensibilities of the moderators. For example, Andrew Wimhurst posted or said something to Richard that led to his eviction, and I will wonder always what it was. If it was really negative, leaving it in would only cause the Forum community to recognize the appropriateness of ousting Wimhurst. As it stands, we are left to wonder was it truly bad, or did it simply push one of RK's buttons.

Obviously, this being Genii's Forum, Richard and those he trusts are free to do whatever they want with the bandwith he owns -- everything on here reflects on Genii, and from there Richard. But I think magic, and ultimately Genii and Richard, will be better served by having as little deletion as possible.

When it doubt, leave it in. Even if not in doubt, probably leave it in. Have a "two man" rule for deletion -- two moderators must jointly agree to take it out.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/01/03 01:24 PM

The posts in my rare book sale were removed because they involved people trying to buy books that had already been spoken for, and then posting again to note their error, etc. These posts do nothing to benefit the thread, so I deleted them.
As far as Andrew Wimhurst, I have little tolerance for people jabbering about things they know nothing about. Particularly when they're corrected and continue to insist they're right. Such posts are best deleted so others aren't incorrectly informed by them
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/01/03 03:05 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
It is already much too ingrained in the Internet that using an alias is an accepted thing for us to try and stop it now.
I have to disagree about this. To accept anonymous (sp) hit and run postings and review by moderators would invite real hacking. This forum is just a database of text records on a server. The content and order of the 'threads' is subject to hacking in ways that would make your heads spin. Such creativity is also an expected aspect of the internet. I would prefer civil discourse so open that few would feel inclined to attempt card tricks with IP packets and hypnosis expressed in CGI and SQL.

How about a policy of putting your name and email address into your profile? The exceptions could be managed by the admins. Anyone with a problem with a posting could still email one of the designated admins or moderators. Moderators could privatly message users and publicly post into threads to suggest productive avenues of discourse.

One other issue comes to mind, flaming. My feeling is that such posts do nothing for the poster and may provide amusment for the readers. discourse that degenerates into name calling and mud flinging could be re-routed into a sub forum for arguments. Even the 'Jerry Springer' show has its place, just not in the 'fond memories' thread please.
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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 01/01/03 03:32 PM

Good stuff, good feedback.

It also dramatically demonstrates how the process of communication works or doesn't work and how clarifications are made necessary.

"Censorship" is a dicey word.

But please don't think that the "moderation" here is going to be arbitrary or flip or overly biased. As G. Latta said, my track record regarding "free speech" is fairly well-known. I'm fairly permissive and sometimes overly tolerant...and I've been bashed for it. My file of hate mail is pretty large.

I agree with B. Mullins, though, regarding the importance of recording as much as possible of the Neverending Story.

What I don't like are mean-spirited and asinine personal attacks--flames without merit and relevance.

And, yes, Tony Miller, stay tuned and active. You have done (with Rosie) an excellent job with your Channel One (which has many satirical, fun-jabbing aspects to it). He is of course welcome here...and I certainly don't want him or anyone else to remain in Lurk Mode for extended periods.

Also: The Moderation Alert are simply that--"alerts." The moderations can then weigh and consider...Give the system a chance. You will see how it works...

We may even do more polls, giving whatever emergent democracy that exists to be realized and take hold...

Onward...
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 01/01/03 04:14 PM

For me, this whole moderator “thing” is a continuing learning experience. It's fair to say that I have under and overreacted. In one instance I deleted a post I should not have. I was deleting unnecessary posts between a member and me and became overzealous and heavy-handed. However, in my own defense, the same opinion was repeated in another post, but I still should have left the other. My learning curve is steep, and I beg the patience (and forgiveness) of our members during my climb.

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/01/03 04:47 PM

Hey Dustin, I forgive you. :)
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Postby Joe M. Turner » 01/01/03 06:43 PM

It's REALLY easy for people to become immature -- and QUICKLY -- when they decide that the rules or operating procedures of a privately operated internet forum don't match up to their own personal preferences. I have received received complaints, threats and assorted forms of harassment from people who don't like the job I do as a moderator or co-moderator on various other forums (not just magic related).

Sometimes I make mistakes. Sometimes, honestly, the mistake was NOT mine, but the other person is unwilling to admit it. They do not chalk it up to people learning to get along... or just the evolution of a community... and just move on. Instead, they cry "foul," shout "censorship" and then go whining to whomever they can get to listen. These people rarely demonstrate patience for the wishes or preferences of others -- especially those of the person or people who invest their time and money in PROVIDING the forum in the first place. Instead, these folks usually prefer to accuse others of heavyhandedness without ever considering that they may be out of line... even a tiny bit... or at least accepting the fact that sometimes, "them's the breaks" when participating on a forum run by actual human beings.

Frankly, these folks can either get over it, or go elsewhere. If I want to hear pouting and whining, it's easy enough to find in real life, much less having to read it online. At the end of the day, internet forums are ultimately the domains of their owners and moderators -- benevolent (more or less) dictatorships -- and they don't have to be right, consistent, or fair. Not everyone has the ability to moderate posts on private boards, and there are usually no elections or other forms of accountability. These people do the best they can with what they have in the situations they encounter, and if in our oh-so-learned opinions they drop a ball here and there, well... we can just get over it.

Generally, I find that I tend to get out of a forum just about what I am willing to put into it. If I contribute as constructively as I can and work within the community that evolves, I tend to get good results. If I storm in with an attitude that it's my way or the highway... then the highway is a good choice.

JMT
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Postby Bill Duncan » 01/01/03 07:04 PM

Originally posted by bill mullins:
For example, Andrew Wimhurst posted or said something to Richard that led to his eviction...
[snip]
As it stands, we are left to wonder was it truly bad, or did it simply push one of RK's buttons.
Bill,
I don't know what Mr. Wimhurst wrote that got him bounced but I tend to take RK at his word about it. As someone who's criticized how Genii is/was run (albeit, via email instead of public ally) I can say for certain that his response to having his "buttons pushed" is to push back. That, and to suggest that if I felt strongly about it that I should post my opinion in the message area in question where others could agree or disagree.

I don't worry too much about RK censoring posts... and less about Mr. Racherbaumer.
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Postby Scott » 01/01/03 07:06 PM

Exactly Joe. People take "ownership" of it when they post on a PRIVATELY OWNED board. They seem to think they have a say so in how it runs. It's not a democracy. People who think it is, probably think our form of government is a democracy as well (it's not-check your history books).

Many valid points have been made about moderation. Take for instance, the nice trick of deleting a single post in a thread. A lapse in attention to what seems to be a simple task, and you'll find the entire thread removed. It's a mistake and mistakes happen.

Consider the facts. 99.8%(or more) of all posts remain. What amazes me is that people who don't own the board would rather argue over the .2% that's moderated than talk about magic. It's not your board. It's not mine either. We make up the board, but we simply are opinions in the grand scheme of things around here.

Let's discuss the 99.8% of posts that are related to magic.

Jon has vowed to be fair on it and we should all take him at his word (not that it matters what we think, we don't own the board).
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Postby Guest » 01/01/03 09:21 PM

Originally posted by Geoff Latta:
Originally posted by Larry Horowitz:
[b]I for one would like to see all members using their real names, no cyber nick-names.
Larry
What an excellent idea.[/b]
I completely agree with this sentiment. When I see someone posting under some bizzare made-up name - like "Doomo" for example - or the name of a lond-dead famous magician, I assume they are either ashamed of their real identity or 12 years old. I automatically regard their statements as less important and therefore less worthy of serious attention.

Is this fair? Probably not; but we have to have ways of separating the wheat from the chaff, and I contend that anyone who takes the FAKE name "dai vernon" or "marlo fan" or other such nonsense doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. Or to be taking up space on a board such as this one, IMO.

Usually such posts prove that to be an accurate assumption.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne

(PS. "Doomo" (aka Anthony Miller), no offense man, but use your real name if you want to be taken seriously. No matter HOW long you've used "Doomo", the vast majority of readers see you as just another anonymous poster, with a really dumb cyber-name.)
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Postby Bill Mullins » 01/01/03 10:00 PM

Originally posted by Scott:
People take "ownership" of it when they post on a PRIVATELY OWNED board.
This is the conundrum. Clearly this board is Richard's to do with as he sees fit (and it is my favorite magic community, despite my criticisms above). He pays for the server, the hosting software, the bandwidth. His name is on the front. He is perfectly within his rights to delete, save, edit, whatever.

But it is also the community property of the 2157 members. Some are lurkers, some have posted once or twice and gone on to other pursuits. Some have a connection to the Genii magazine that encourages participation here. Some just like to participate (I tend to think that Jon R would be in this category if he weren't already such a big part of the magazine). I've popped off over 300 times here; sometimes flippantly, sometimes with thought, sometimes with emotion. I've pounded at the keyboard for over an hour, working on a post, hoping it says what I mean instead of something else, because I hope I have something to say.

So, in some little way, part of the Genii forum is mine. I work on what I post to make the forum better. When something is edited out of the forum, I feel like part of what is mine has been taken. Am I wrong to be possessive? Maybe so.
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Postby John Pezzullo » 01/02/03 02:35 AM

If I'm not mistaken, Jon volunteered to act as moderator of The Genii Forum once Richard had decided to shut down the forum. Without Jon having assumed this responsibilty, there would be no forum. End of story.

I'd like to thank Jon for assuming this responsibility and selflessly devoting the necessary time and energy. My participation in the forum will be positive, constructive, and friendly. It's the least that I can do to show my appreciation.
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Postby opie » 01/02/03 06:12 AM

Hey Richard, Dustin, Jon, et.al.....

This is a good forum, and you guys do a good job...Don't worry about an occasional screw up by someone or by yourselves; Everyone will err occasionally.....

Cajole when you can, but slam when necessary; leadership requires those choices....

Keep up the good work....

Opie (real name; I promise)
opie
 
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Location: austin tx

Postby Guest » 01/02/03 08:02 AM

Originally posted by Thomas Wayne:
I completely agree with this sentiment. When I see someone posting under some bizzare made-up name - like "Doomo" for example - or the name of a lond-dead famous magician, I assume they are either ashamed of their real identity or 12 years old. I automatically regard their statements as less important and therefore less worthy of serious attention.

Is this fair? Probably not; but we have to have ways of separating the wheat from the chaff, and I contend that anyone who takes the FAKE name "dai vernon" or "marlo fan" or other such nonsense doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. Or to be taking up space on a board such as this one, IMO.

Usually such posts prove that to be an accurate assumption.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne

(PS. "Doomo" (aka Anthony Miller), no offense man, but use your real name if you want to be taken seriously. No matter HOW long you've used "Doomo", the vast majority of readers see you as just another anonymous poster, with a really dumb cyber-name.)[/QB]
I rarely post in the magic forums. I am the supreme lurker wife. I don't worry much about posting on magic forums using a female nick as most of you folks are well behaved, but on other forums and in many chats I will use a "genderless" nickname. When I used to hang out in the magician's IRC chat and used a "female" nickname, I would receive lots of unsolicited attention because of that.

Then there are the perennial bots that crawl through cyberspace looking for "real" names and email address. Anyone who owns his or her own domain as we do will know that amazing amount of trash that comes pouring into your mailbox.

We use different online names and email addresses to allow us to track where our names are being either "harvested" or sold. So far we haven't received anything labeled Doomo or Rosie so that means the miners haven't found this site yet. It has, however, happened on EG despite Bruce's best efforts otherwise..and Magictalk and others...

And finally Doomo and I are oldtimers. We've been on the internet since it started..and BBS's long before that. We are cyber fogies. Back in the day, no one and I mean NO ONE, used a real name...and I still think its a valid policy. Until I get to know the people on the board, I have the right to protect my identity. And that shouldn't lessen the value of my opinions. Information is information and information = power. And just because you ask me for my email address doesn't mean you wouldn't be getting one of my many shell addresses.

And regardless of what you think...if I take the time to post..you need to pay attention..my wrath is swift...ask Doomo...
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 01/02/03 08:11 AM

Re Rosie's post:

Reasoned, civil, forceful, articulate.

What the heck is a post like that doing on the internet? ;-)
Guest
 

Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 01/02/03 10:08 AM

Articulate post, indeed. Thanks, Rosie.
This is EXACTLY the kind of post we hope to disloge from lurkers at the fringes. It articulates and EXPLAINS the reasons for this and that, broadening our appreciation of subjects that generally are give "first-blush" treatments.

What I find interesting is that the Internet, while it evokes a certain free-floating anarchy, also tends to promote defensive and paranoid behavior where one is in perpetual preemptive-strike mode. Then one puts an emotional "fire-wall" around themselves, especially those who have been flames, spammed, infected, and otherwise brutalized by the hostile nature of the Frontier itself.

Onward, merrily...
Jon Racherbaumer
 
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