JES Magic

Discuss general aspects of Genii.

Postby Richard Tremblay » 07/27/05 11:12 AM

Does anybody know if they still manufacture their superb squatty cups?

Thank you.


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Postby Bill Palmer » 07/28/05 06:38 AM

No, but I hear that they are planning to reissue them. Their chief problems were delivery and setting a proper dealer discount.
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Postby Richard Tremblay » 07/28/05 08:33 AM

Thank you.

Do you happen to know if there is other Copper Paul Fox design cups on the market in the same price range?

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Postby Pete Biro » 07/28/05 09:18 AM

Johnson Cups are so close it would be difficult to see much difference. I think Penguin makes a ripoff version.

Buma makes a similar cup as well.
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Postby Richard Tremblay » 07/28/05 01:02 PM

Mr. Biro,

Thank you for the information. I knew about the Johnson cups but they have 3 beads instead of two. It would be my second choice if I cannot find something very similar to the Paul Fox and that is not made or sell by Magic Makers (or Penguin Magic).

As for the Buma cups, I wasn't aware of them. I haven't been able to find good informations about them either.

Regards.

Richard
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Postby Guest » 07/28/05 01:20 PM

I have a question that has been gnawing at my understanding for thirty or forty years and this looks like a good place to ask it. I have seen a slew of -- a plethora of -- cups and balls magicians. I have seen Galli Galli and I have seen Johnny Platt. I have seen Dai Vernon and a host of others. The only performer I saw whose CUPS made the least impresion was Dick Zimmerman. He used quart size baskets and sat on the floor to perform. So my question: what is the difference if a performer used the finest sterling silver cups or those detailed in "Poor Man's Cups and Balls" Genii:The Conjurer's Magazine: Volume 45, #2, February 1981 page 109? Is the effect on the audience that much different? Or is it the smug feeling of ownership of the performer? Think about it.
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Postby Pete Biro » 07/28/05 02:07 PM

As a consultant on the Johnson Cup design, I suggested the number of "beads" be different just to keep Busby off our backs. It worked.

I think you might want to look at the Sherwood copper cups or maybe Joe Porper's cups... which are the ones seen on all the cover photos on the Vernon Chronicles books.

But... if you want a routine that no one, well few, are doing... look at the Johnny Paul routine on the Stevens video.
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Postby Robert Allen » 07/28/05 03:23 PM

Buma (Jr.?) aka Mark Burger's wares can be seen here:

http://markburger.com/ (enter "cups" in the search)

I believe Stevens still carries several designs of Mark Burgers cups. I have a set of Marks Old World pewter cups but have not used them to perform. They are beautiful. The same height as the Johnson cups, which is a smidge taller than true PF cups, but with a slightly more PF style profile than the Johnson cups. Two rings, but smaller than PF cups and with a slight space between them.

I'm not a fan of the Porper Cups, not because of quality which is as always excellent, but because of the design. Be that as it may, links to the Porper offerings are here http://www.porperoriginals.com/cups_main.htm

Rings & Things (sp?) II are here http://www.rnt2.com, and according to *this* http://www.rnt2.com/product.aspx?productno=72, they may eventually/soon be re-releaseing Jim Sistis cups. Finally, RNT 2 seems to be releasing a set of PF replica (?) cups here http://www.rnt2.com/product.aspx?productno=70

Sherwood Cups are here http://www.sherwoodmagic.com/
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Postby Pepka » 07/28/05 04:00 PM

I can also strongly suggest Riser standard cups. They have a very beautiful rounded design and look great when you let them develop a patina. Check them out at www.jamesriser.com
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Postby Richard Tremblay » 07/30/05 08:37 AM

The Sherwood cups (the silver one) are certainly what I would like to have but it is really not in my budget. I like the Copper Paul Fox version because, when tarnished, they look like antique pieces and also because I've wanted them for so long that I have some difficulties in buying a set of a different model.

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Postby Bill Mullins » 07/30/05 03:01 PM

It looks like Rings'nThings has filed for a trademark for the Paul Fox logo (backwards P and an F in a circle), and that they will also do a new run of improved Phoenix cups.

To see these trademarks, go to the US Patent And Trademark Office's web page HERE and search for "PF" AND "zimmerman" to see RnT's filing, and "PF" and "busby" to see the expired PF trademark.
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Postby Guest » 08/19/05 10:04 AM

Hello everyone. I had no idea that there was this much talk on my cups. It's true that sets have not been available for the past year. Essentially, with the market flooded with double beaded "Fox" style cups by Magic Makers, and witht the introduction of the Johnson Cups, I was unable to compete. My cups were made in far fewer quantities with attention to detail and quality being the important factors. But there is good news on the horizon. I am planning on releasing the 4th run of cups. Production will start soon, but I do not have a specific date. After discussing the matter with some cup collectors and "fanatics" I believe that my cup is the only one which duplicates the original Danny Dew PF style 1 cup--or it is a combination of style 1-2 (Style 1.5 if you will). It exactly matches my original within half millimeters. Right now my website is currently out of date, and the link to my e-mail address isn't working. If you want to get ahold of me directly, the e-mail you can reach me at is prolink18@aol.com. Again, thank you for your interest, and I look forward to the 4th generation of Squatty Cups to be available soon.
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Postby Pete Biro » 08/19/05 10:27 AM

As the ONLY LEGAL owner of the Paul Fox line (Pete Biro/Joe Porper) and in conjunction with the Paul Fox estate... the original Danny Dew marketed Paul Fox cups, in copper and Paul's personal favorite--nickle plated--are being developed and will be marketed in the very near future.

As will the Beer Trick, the Salt Pour, the Coin Boxes and the Candy Bowl.

STAY TOONED.... :genii:
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Postby Bill Palmer » 08/25/05 12:02 PM

I brought out my JES cups and compared them to my various sets of PF/DD cups and have the following to say.

The recess in the bottom of the JES cup is about the same size as the recess in the bottom of the Paul Fox style 1 cup. The JES cup is about 1/16 inch shorter than the Style 1 or style 2 cups.

The curve of the cup breaks higher on the JES cup (assuming that you are looking at the cup when it is sitting mouth downward on a table) which accentuates the impression that it is much shorter than the PF/DD cups.

The Style 2 cup was the design that Paul preferred. It was changed by Danny upon Paul's insistence.

There are many people who consider the JES design much easier to do certain moves with than the PF/DD style 1 or style 2.
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Postby Guest » 09/11/05 06:33 PM

Regarding the JESmagic Cups, I am working on the 4th run now. The original company who spun the cups for me overpriced themselves, and I was forced to look for another spinner. I have talked with RNT2 magic, who will be producing my cups from my original chucks--and completely to my specifications. They will be helping with the distribution of the cups, since that was one of my major problems. Visit www.rnt2.com and click on the JESmagic section--there you will see a history of the cups, and description. They will also be designing combo cups--which is something that several collectors asked for, and I was unable to provide. Again, I will insist on the quality of the originals. The cool thing is that they will offer the cups in metals previously not available. Like Jim Sisti, and so many others, I feel that they will address the needs of magicians when manufacturing the cups--making them perfect--just the way I want.
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