comments in Malini and his Magic by Dai Vernon

Discuss the historical aspects of magic, including memories, or favorite stories.

Postby reed mcclintock » 12/19/02 08:09 PM

This is one of my alltime favorite books I have read it so many times it is redicoulous.
Well anyway on page 91 they are talking about How Malini wrote a autobiography in his own words which he entitled it Just Malini. It goes on to say his son Ozier is the only one who has read it. Apparently it has been in manuscript form for about 35 years.

It goes on to say that his son owns it and is more intrested in selling it for general publication.

Has anyone in the magic communittee researched this at all and if so what have you learned.

For the record in the second paragraph it says Now Malini could never be considered a literary man bad english and his spelling was terrible, some of his expressions although picturesque were often uncouth.

Much like my writing and spelling abilities, so I am very intrested in this subject. please respond if you know anything about this.

It is a sad day when magicians let this piece of history go especially with one of the greatest magicians that ever lived, merely my own opinion.
cheers
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 12/19/02 08:39 PM

Hi Reed,

Hope you are well! (How's the tattoo magic book coming?)

I love reading about Max Malini as well (he and Germain are my favorite historical figures), but material on him is hard to come by. I was thrilled when a gentleman named Mark Mitton did a talk on Malini at the last L.A. History Conference (November 2001). Ozzy was there as well, and there was some reference to a possible biography in the works, but nothing firm. As you know, Ozzy passed away a few months ago, so if the manuscript exists, I have no idea who might have it.

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Postby Guest » 12/20/02 02:31 PM

I hate to mention David Ben again but I do believe he knows something about the matter. I swear he told me something about it some time ago. I think he met the son.

Has anyone noticed that although his son is referred to in the book there is no mention of him ever being married?

Just thought I'd mention it. Actually I knew a friend of Malini who used to tell me stories about him. Interesting fellow. I think he died without a shilling.

As Maskelyne said "art is something with which money has no concern"

I had better stop before I go off on a tangent and make Nicholas Johnson dizzy. I think that is his name anyway. I am getting a little dizzy myself.

[censored]
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Postby Guest » 12/20/02 02:37 PM

I am definitely going dizzy. It was Jonathon Townsend that was refering to dizziness and going off on tangents not the other Johnson chap whose name I have again forgotten.

Incidentally, I often force cards on people and forget what they were.
I know. Another tangent.
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Postby reed mcclintock » 12/20/02 04:26 PM

lol, a random tangent.
Hi Dustin I ti s good to see things are going wel for you.
I wonder if somehow we can get hold of the wife of the late ozie.
Prehaps she might know something about this. looking for leads here. I think this is a project I would like to see come to fruition.
I am definately on a mission here. Between Goshman and Malini, My personal over all favorites, whom I never got to meet, ( that sucks) oh well, I think that if Malini has more stuff about his life I want to know more. thanks guys for all of your assistance.
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Postby reed mcclintock » 12/20/02 04:46 PM

your right not one word of him ever being married. I wonder, it says he was a very private man according to the letter at the end of the book. He shared more information about himself in showbusiness but not his personal life. I wonder if maybe he never married and just had a baby with a woman. It seems odd that in those days if you had a baby you married. But life often times becomes more complex I suppose. I want to learn more I am so curious. :)
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Postby Guest » 12/20/02 05:05 PM

Actually I think I did see a photo of Mrs Malini (if she was indeed his wife) in the wonderful Ricky Jay book "Learned pigs and Fireproof Women"

There is quite a section on Malini there. Fascinating. I would imagine Ricky Jay is the one to ask about Malini. Coincidentally I think there was a name connection too.

I may be suffering a lapse of memory here but I seem to have a vague idea that Max Malini's name was Max Katz Breit and Ricky Jay's father or perhaps grandfather was called Max Katz, also a magician.

I may have all this wrong so I shall hurriedly go off on another tangent. You said that you would have loved to meet Goshman.

Well, I met him and I have a feeling you may not have been quite so enthused.

I think he had a good heart but jollity and social graces were not his strong point.

He had awful tales to tell concerning David Roth, Slydini and Vernon. I cannot tell them here since the powers that be seem to get irritated by gossip. They have deleted my conversations with Al Koran concerning David Berglas.

I shall have to go to alt.magic to gossip about Al Koran, David Berglas, Al Goshman and Brian Wendell Morton.

[censored]
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Postby reed mcclintock » 12/20/02 07:15 PM

Does anyone have an e-mail for Ricky J. I shall like to drop him a line, to see if perhaps he does know anything about this autobiography.
I have heard several things about Goshman from people who met him.
In my mind he is to me, one of the finest and most facinating performers. He and Don Allen videos have held me captivated on so many days and nights. I can tell you I have gone through four Goshman tapes. I watch them so much they drag and then snap. Don Allen same thing. I am completely enamoured by they way they held audiences. I can only hope to be a fraction of that quality.
Back to Malini I feel when I read the book Vernon wrote it just wasnt enough to really allow me to figure out his thaught process for his creativity.
I believe there was reason why he was so great, I need to find out more about his je ne sais quois .
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 12/20/02 10:28 PM

Originally posted by [censored]:
I may be suffering a lapse of memory here but I seem to have a vague idea that Max Malini's name was Max Katz Breit and Ricky Jay's father or perhaps grandfather was called Max Katz, also a magician.
Mark:
Your memory is doing well here. It's his grandfather (maternal, I believe).

Reed:
Besides the Jay book Mark mentions, the November 15, 1999 issue of Genii is dedicated to Malini. Sorry; no RJ contact info.

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(Sensitive West Coast guy with poor grammar.)
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Postby reed mcclintock » 12/20/02 10:51 PM

I will track down an old genii. thank you for the info. Now maternal is mom right. I am glad you guys have good memories, I am getting old and mine is starting to slip,lol.
anythingelse that may pop up let me know.
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Postby reed mcclintock » 12/20/02 10:55 PM

OH yeah Mark I thank you for the tips on the two books. I have a search going for those two right now. Sorry I didnt mention those earlier, I didnt want you think I was ungrateful. I am very grateful for you and Dustin taking the time to share these pieces of information.
cheers :)
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Postby David Alexander » 12/21/02 12:57 AM

Max Malini was married twice, if memory serves. One reception was at the White House, I think during the Harding administration. Malini was a friend of a lot of world leaders and politicians.

When I was a kid I learned that Ozzie worked for Sears in Torrance, California. I called him and ended up riding my bicycle over to Torrance to meet him. He was flattered that some kid would go to that much trouble. I did it many times. He showed me a number of things including the way his dad would vanish a coin...not the way Vernon describes it in Stars of Magic.

(Incidentally, Ozzie said many times that Vernon did not know his father that well. It was Charlie Miller who knew his dad far better and was his close friend.)

He had the large portrait of his father hanging in his living room. (It's now in the Magic Castle.) He also had the ivory carving mentioned in the book.

He had his dad's scrapbooks, and for a period of time, he loaned me a bunch of things including the big blow up of the drawing of Max by Enrico Caruso.

Ozzie liked to tell the story of the time Caruso took a dinner plate, held it over a candle and blackened it, and then took a pin and sketched a profile of Malini and himself, signing it. Ozzie had it shellacked.

Living in Hawaii he came home one day and found the maid had cleaned that "dirty" plate. She told him she had to work hard to scrub it clean.

One scrap book had been used as a financial journal for a few months in 1903. He kept track of the fees he collected from shows. I remember reading the numbers and adding them up. Over one 31 day period he made $1500! Incredible money for the time. All the shows were for $100 or $150, except one that paid $50. Multiply by 20 to get an approximation of today's value...income tax not factored in because back then it didn't exist. You could stay in a first class hotel and eat three meals a day for $10-15 a week !

And as for "Just Malini," Ozzie handed it to me one afternoon. It was typewritten and very short. I read it sitting in his living room. English was not Max's first language and the "book" suffered from him jumping around and not giving a lot of detail. Ozzie always wanted to publish the book with text on one side and illustrations of his father's newspaper write-ups on the other. That, of course, never happened.
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Postby Dave Egleston » 12/21/02 01:59 AM

I just got a 1st edition of MALINI AND HIS MAGIC today! and have read nearly the whole book again - and Mr McClintock is right - It's just a pleasure to read over and over.

Unfortunately - like the convention improvement thread - I'm not qualified to contribute anything further to this topic - Just wanted to brag about my newest purchase - This is the third copy of this book I now own.

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Postby reed mcclintock » 12/21/02 03:31 AM

Wow!!!
See that is the stuff I am talking about. I respect Dai Vernon, I just did not feel he did the book Justice capturing the man Malini. The person who should have written the book should have been someone who actually knew him.
Perhaps the only reason was vernon wrote the book, was just realy to share his tricks. Which seems kind of silly to me.
Malini sounds as if he could have done any trick, it would not have mattered. You would get so wrapped up his presence, and aura the very personality would captivate you.
If you have more info like that please share. I read that post several times.
Just thinking to my self wow can you imagine, just imagine.
What a powerful thing in it of itself.
You know on the back cover of the book it says Malini One of the most Faboulous characters in magical history. and the book is only 107 pages actually less than that.
Yet you look at Lorayne or heck anyone that has several magic books of them selves and they are not remotely as amazing to hear about, Perhaps they are only self serving books. I do not mean that negatively by any means. But it surely goes to point out that Malini was a true artist and that his contribution was not the tricks it was him and he was the magic. A great lesson here, I am glad I have been able to see that for myself. It is very inspirational.
I supose when Lewis Ganson w/ Vernon put the book together they wanted to entertain, they left me wanting more alot more.
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Postby George Olson » 12/21/02 09:04 AM

Reed

Come on over, I've got that Genie. I'll dig it out for you to read, Reed; when you've read it, you can bookmark it with a reed, then Reed you can go back and read it again and again!
:cool:
Or better still you can probably buy a back issue from Richard.

George
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Postby David Alexander » 12/21/02 10:37 AM

Being a "character" was Malini's stock in trade. Ozzie, when young, used to correct his father's English. Max would say, "Eff I speek good English...you don't eat." I suspect some of Max's garbled English was added for effect. Calling Queen Victoria "Mrs. Qveen," for example.

Malini was a product of his times. He was able to make good money because he would show up in an area like the Far East where the colonists where huddled in small enclaves and there was a distinct lack of entertainment. Malini was a novelty to break the monotony. That he would give a show in his hotel room and "only" charge $10 a person didn't matter.

He was a change, a novelty, a break in the relentless dullness of their lives. Imagine going to see a good close-up show today, only given by an urbane, witty, world traveler who not only did good magic, but had great stories to tell about his friends, other famous people....and paying over $100 for the chance. That was Malini.

Malini could extract the maximum in entertainment value from simple material. The trick described in the book with the committe of men on stage, each with a new, unopened deck of cards, from which each man would select one card and put it, unseen in his pocket, is a prime example.

Malini would then tell the story about traveling the world finding one constant in all peoples and cultures, that being "man's love for woman." Each man would pull out his card and it would be the Queen of Hearts.

Charming...but try and do that today. It was a far slower-paced world back then and people were willing to sit and enjoy themselves as Malini opened each deck, threw away the advert cards and the Jokers and forced the Queen on each man...ten times, all the while being charming and amusing, holding the audience's attention and entertaining them at the same time.

And, of course, as I asked Ozzie, what happens when spectator # 8 sees what's happening and decides to open his deck and help himself? Well, he replied, "you didn't do that when you were onstage with my father. You did what you were told!" Another valuable lesson learned.

Max was not shy. If asked to "stay for awhile," he would settle in, often for as long as six months. He called himself a "guest of Society."

Ozzie once told me of his father carrying a small supply of the Dime and Penny, teaching it to people who wanted to "learn a little something." The machined gimmick looked like something expensive and Max would teach them the trick for $100.

When I was working in the Bay Area in the mid-60s I had lunch several times with an amateur magician and lawyer named Jesse Mueller who knew Max well. He loved being with Max because he was endlessly funny and fun to be around. He was charming, something modern magicians could learn more about.
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Postby Guest » 12/21/02 11:42 AM

This is very good information, David. Thank you for sharing it.
Regarding that little book a certain Mr. Kaufmann should really be investigating it. He could track it down with your help and include it in a larger book about the subject. I predict it would sell very well.

By the way, in answer to Reed I think the reason for Malini's magic success was actually very simple. It wasn't the tricks. They were fairly standard fare.

No. Malini was a CHARACTER. You remembered HIM. It is not the trick that is so important so much as the illusion that you create about yourself. Max did this very well, it seems.

Mind you, he had his detractors. I have an old Linking Ring which has an issue devoted to another great magician, T. Nelson Downs.

Extracts from some of Downs letters are given. Tommy didn't seem to like Max that much and decried his skill and ability. It just goes to show that times don't change that much in the magic world.

I had no idea that Malini was married twice. Ganson really should have give this at least a cursory mention in that book.

No. I think Malini deserves a far more comprehensive book. Get to it Richard. It will give you something to do with your time.

Incidentally, 30 years ago I saw a deck of cards used by Malini. It was in the Magic Circle museum.
Presumably it is still there.
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Postby reed mcclintock » 12/22/02 01:18 PM

This is great!!
I read and anticipate your posts. These stories you are sharing are so motivating to me.


George I have the copy coming to me. Thank you Richard.

I look forward to seeing a book more in depth about Malini I hope that this happens.
Cheers :)
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Postby David Alexander » 12/22/02 01:39 PM

Ozzie told me once of his father and Dante landing on the same large island simultaneously. They made an agreement that they would circle the island, Dante going one way, Malini going the other, each telling their audiences to watch for the other coming in two weeks.

Malini went on his way and tried to book a theater, only to learn that Dante had tied up all the best theaters on the island for several weeks, essentially screwing Malini out of a way to make a living and breaking their deal.

Max was not to be messed with and had connections Dante did not. Max went to the island govenor with a letter of introduction from other, powerful people, and explained his problem.

The govenor made phone calls to theater owners, telling them that unless they rescinded Dante's contracts no European would set foot in their theaters for a year.

After Max played the island Dante reportedly begged for the ability to play one theater so he could have enough money to move on as he had used up a great deal of cash sitting still without performing for two weeks.

I'm not surprised that Tommy Downs did not like Max. Downs was an egoist of the first water and, from what I've been told, would perform for ten minutes for someone who simply said hello on the street. He probably didn't care for the success and attention Malini received.

Much of what is in "Downs'" book, was Leipsig's material, written up by Hilliard, ghosting for Downs. There's one or two items by Jarrow as well, uncredited, of course.

As for Malini's techniques, or lack thereof, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I've seen amateurs critical of Copperfield's technical skill, yet none of the critics have one tenth of one percent of David's professional success...nor could they regularly fill large auditoriums at top prices with their Faro shuffles, perfect double lifts and passes.
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Postby Guest » 12/22/02 02:55 PM

I have now been moved by David's post to see if I can hunt down that Linking Ring issue where Downs is sounding off. If I find it I will post some extracts.
I expect Reed will find it fascinating to get some more insight about Malini.
I don't know if I can find the magazine though. I have aproximately two and a half million Linking Rings at home. It may take me a while to find the right one.
If I find it, I will give the thoughts of Tommy Downs on the matter.
Strangely enough, Downs got on reasonably well with Houdini who could be difficult at times.

[censored]
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/22/02 05:11 PM

I don't think the Malini manuscript will ever be published.
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Postby Guest » 12/22/02 06:20 PM

Quite seriously, I have a gut feeling that a new book on Malini would be a wonderful thing. I sense it would sell very ,very well.
Mind you something is bugging me. Did I hear a vague rumour that someone else was doing one? I am probably hallucinating. I often do that.

Incidentally, I think you did a powerful service for magic when you republished "Greater Magic" I don't know if anyone ever thanked you for it. If not, I will now.
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Postby reed mcclintock » 12/22/02 06:53 PM

Mark if you find the time to peek for the issue of linking ring please let me know I have a friend who has I think all issues dating back to the fifties, so if I knew what issue I can take a looksy for myself.

Richard why do you think a manuscript may never be published on Malinis behalf. :( Are you thinking perhaps it may be lost.
cheers
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Postby Guest » 12/23/02 04:44 PM

I am not the most organised person in the world so it has taken me a bit of a struggle to locate the Linking Rings in question.

However the struggle is over and I can now report to you that there are two fascinating issues of the magazine dated April and May 1971. Both have masses of T.Nelson Downs material.

The issue you want will be the May one. On pages 82-83 Downs is sounding off about Malini in a somewhat lukewarm manner. There is a little praise but it is mostly criticism, especially about Malini having no money.

Downs himself retired from Vaudeville around 1912 when he would have been about 44 or so. He retired with $50,000. This must have been a fabulous sum in those days and would even be a somewhat tidy sum now.
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Postby David Alexander » 12/23/02 05:58 PM

Think current equivalent of $50,000 (1912) about $750,000 to about $1 million, offset by taxes, etc., burdens Downs never faced.

Downs lived in the middle of the country where the cost of living was minimal. By 1920 in the US the average wage was $2,000 a year. A nice Craftsman home in Los Angeles cost about $2,500. Downs was well fixed.

That said, Malini made and spent a lot of money, enjoying himself as he went. Sometimes he was in the chips and sometimes not.
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Postby Guest » 12/23/02 06:16 PM

Yes and I think Downs had lots of property. I think he owned half of Marshaltown from what I gather.
He was obviously shrewd in business matters.
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Postby sleightly » 12/23/02 06:20 PM

I held off on posting this for a couple of days out of deference for the "performer" involved, but I have not had a reply from him, so here goes...

If you haven't yet come across it, John Booth's Extending Magic Beyond Credibility (an unfortunate title, but an interesting collection of essays nonetheless), contains a chapter on Malini. No tricks, just stories. There are two photographs in the book: one of Max playing the violin and the other an inscribed (to Booth) and signed studio shot. I prepared the book, and it was quite a thrill to hold the original in my hands (it currently resides in the Norm Nielsen collection).

Now on to my frustrations…

I tracked down and called Ozzie about six or seven years ago and was most interested in having the autobiography see the light of day (perhaps an annotated version with a more accurate and detailed description of Max's feats, along with inviting a few contemporaries and students to chime in). Ozzie was very pleasant and excited at the prospect of seeing it finally in print.

We had a very interesting conversation, and he complained bitterly about the Vernon book, claiming that Vernon made most of it up and didn't really have a clue as to how Malini accomplished most of his feats. He also claimed that Vernon didn't have the facts straight on the details of several effects, but Vernon had the name and was “doing the books quickly to make some cash.” No judgment on my part, I didn't know Vernon (I'm just a young punk who rarely leaves the woods, preferring to meet these guys in my library). Others undoubtedly have more to say on this.

He told me at the time though that he had just met with a performer who had been out to visit with him and had taken a large quantity of photographs and a copy of the autobiography and was going to produce a “coffee-table” book on Malini. No explanations, just pictures and stories. Ozzie had also spent quite some time teaching this performer Malini's pieces. Ozzie was very familiar with the material and, although I believe he made a living in real estate, he had performed periodically as an amateur. This performer has since incorporated the Malini pieces into his repertoire.

Encouraged by my enthusiasm and experience in the book world, Ozzie suggested I contact this performer and offer to work with him. At the time, Ozzie was not in the best (or worst) of health, but very interested to see his father's brief (as David Alexander mentioned) autobiography published. He had lots of other materials and the book would make a nice compilation of materials a la the Houdini Scrapbook by Gibson.

I spoke with this other person (a busy performer in his own right, but not too experienced in the literary world) and offered to work with him. He expressed concern at my interest and asked me to keep it under my hat as there were other sharks in the pool that might try to take the project away from him (and ultimately, I assume, actually publish the darned thing). I “touched base” repeatedly over a couple of years with this gentleman who assured me that he was working on it and that he was “shopping it around” (his coffee-table version, build the myth) to some major main-stream publishers. Each time I called I got the impression that lots of work was finished, but more work was needed. Each time he repeated his request for me to keep this under my vest.

I spoke with Ozzie several times over this period and he expressed growing frustration with the interminable delay in the publication of any material. I did my best to assure him that things move slowly in the publishing world, but personally shared his frustration. Particularly so because I knew there was work to be done and I wasn't allowed to participate and would have been happy to do so “pro bono.” After a while I drifted to other projects and would send the occasional email to the performer inquiring as to the progress. For a while longer he would send me an occasional reply, but ultimately the communications became one-sided. The last communication I had from him was on March 26, 1997. I called him a couple weeks after this but never had a reply back...

Of course, a short while ago, Ozzie passed away. I enjoyed our conversations, he was a warm and genuine person who enjoyed his father's successes and was honestly interested in sharing with the world-at-large not only his father's stories and scrapbooks, but his own personal (and at times troubled) relationship with his father. It saddens me to say this, but it appears that “one of our own” would take advantage of an old man by promising to produce a “vapor-ware” book about a prominent (and historical) magical figure in order to pry the knowledge and personal mementos for his own “collection.”

What has happened to this material? Will the book ever be published? Why is there no outcry over this sort of this behavior?

I don't know, but I would like to find out. Wouldn't you?

Andrew "Not wishing to remain anonymous" Pinard
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Postby Guest » 12/23/02 06:32 PM

Now of course we are all on the edge of our seats speculating on the identity of the mystery man.

I have a vague suspicion as to who it might be.Not that I am one to gossip of course.

I do feel that Malini deserves a proper book. I also think it would be a very commercial one. Some magical publishing type person or literary type should investigate the matter.

Richard should commission someone. I bet Ricky Jay would be the man to do it.
Too busy playing with his 52 assistants I suppose.
Or should I say Billy 0'Connors 52 assistants.

I had better go before I stir up trouble. Hopefully nobody will know what I am referring to.
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Postby David Alexander » 12/23/02 06:50 PM

Anyone who has Max Holden's Programes of Famous Magicians knows who Billy O'Connor is.

I suspect who the performer is also as I've been in touch with him over the years. I was unaware that someone was hustling Ozzie. I hadn't been in touch with him for years, thinking he lived in Northern California when he lived in Camarillo.

My memories of him are warm and pleasant and he was both gracious and generous with me when I was a lot younger and greener.
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Postby Max Maven » 12/23/02 07:47 PM

I think it's worth clarifying two points:

1. Ricky Jay's grandfather was named Max Katz, a significant person on the New York magic scene for decades. However, he was not Max Malini, nor were they related.

2. It is clear that Malini did not care for Dai Vernon, and the Ganson/Vernon book undoubtedly has errors. However, any suggestion that the book was written with a profit-making motive is nonsense.
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Postby David Alexander » 12/23/02 09:28 PM

Max Maven wrote:

2. It is clear that Malini did not care for Dai Vernon, and the Ganson/Vernon book undoubtedly has errors. However, any suggestion that the book was written with a profit-making motive is nonsense.
___________________

All Ozzie ever said to me was that Vernon didn't know his father very well, and that Charlie Miller knew him far better.

As for writing the book with a profit-making motive. The market for magic books in those days was a lot smaller and no one ever expected magic to become as popular as it is now.

I have been told that Supreme paid its writers a flat $100 per book and Harry Stanley the same or less. Ganson probably walked away with around that much and maybe a few books to sell on his own. I have no idea what, if anything, Vernon gained from the project other than his name being on another book that added to his reputation.

The only people who made any money on the Malini book were the publisher and the dealers who sold it. At the time of its original publication it probably wasn't out in an edition of more than 500. The publisher probably cleared $1,000 on the first edition when the dust settled. Maybe a bit more, but not much.
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Postby Guest » 12/24/02 01:38 PM

I knew Harry Stanley and although of course he made some money from the books he published I don't think it was a fortune.

I got the distinct impression that a great deal of his motivation for the books was not money but a genuine respect for the art of magic. I think he published those Vernon, Slydini and other books because he felt it was important to publish them.

He should have been given an honour of some kind for what he did for magic back in those days. He was an unpopular character sometimes and this counted against him. Still, I don't think he has been properly appreciated, especially in the UK, for what he and Ganson did for magic. In some ways the books were quite historic.

A bit like mine actually. I don't know if I mentioned that I have written a historic book on the svengali deck. I suppose it may have slipped my mind. I must go and look at the "for magicians only" page on my website to remind me.

[censored]
www.marklewisentertainment.com
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Postby reed mcclintock » 12/25/02 05:15 PM

This is a great thread on one of the most fascinating men in magic. It is very evident to me that something must be done about bringing the Malini story to light. I would like to start looking into this in more detail. If nobody is going to make this happen I would really like to give it a whirl. I have enrolled in some english classes to start learning how to write and use punctuation etc.
I know some of you know about my rare learning disability (Dysgraphia). I want to learn to communicate through written word alot better perhaps this would be my motivation to do so. Any help from some of the others that would like to get a team to work on this let me know.
I have absolutely no monetary intrest in this. IF Malini still has family left alive perhaps profits can go to them. Or we can donate the money to a magic related club or something whatever. the only profit I am intrested in is enough to put the book together and get it printed really eleganlty, Kind of like the way Malini would dress.
If anyone is intrested please email me. I really want to do this project. Imagine how much we can learn about this guy. I fear the longer this waiting goes we MAY MISS OUT ON EVERYONE WHO EVER MET THIS MAN AND CAN TELL US THERE OWN STORIES.
I eagerly await anyones email on this subject.
Cheers :)
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Postby Michael Edwards » 02/20/03 03:49 AM

Nathan: I think this thread answers the question you raised in another message.
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