Card from Handkerchief

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Postby Guest » 10/02/07 03:29 PM

On Roterberg's New Era Card Tricks we can read about Card from Handkerchief. Instead authors we read "originated in this city several years ago".

On Grawatt-Hugard's Enciclopedia of Card Tricks there is Williams' Card Trick and final absolutelly like on Roterberg.

Am I understand that William was inventor of Card from Handkerchief?
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Postby Philippe Billot » 10/03/07 01:04 PM

Hi,Oleg

No, it's simply a variation because in the version in New Era Card Trick, there are no duplicatas.
But if you consult the Potter's Index, there is a reference for a book published in 1880 entitled : "How to give conjuring and other entertainments at home" in which, we can see, page 13, a trick named "Passing a Card through a Handkerchief".
Unfortunatly, I haven't this book. Therefore I can't tell you if the method is the same.

Good luck for your searches
Philippe Billot
 
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Postby Guest » 10/04/07 06:49 AM

Dear Philippe,

Thanks for answer. I anderstand two tricks differ, but I wrote about finis on Williams trick. There sure - palming, covering by handkeirchief, placing deck, special rolling, holding handkeirchief, shacking and card reveal. Same what was used on Erdnase. This is why I interesting...

I hope you know about my respect to French sources, and I find first idea on Guyot "Seconde Rcration. Trouver dans le jeu, et au travers d'un mouchoir, une carte quelconque qu'une personne a tire d'un jeu." (I include this on my comments of Erdnase) With high popularity of this author most of tricks with "card through handkeirchief" can be just repeating first method. But now my interests ONLY "special rolling" of handkeirchief.

Unfortunately I do not have Potter's Index, but I will serch source what you suggest.

Thanks again.
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Postby Philippe Billot » 10/04/07 08:08 AM

Hi Oleg,

Be careful. The trick explained by Guyot is not "matter through matter" but simply a revelation.
You control the card to the top of the deck via a Pass, you put the deck on the table, you cover it with a handkerchief.
Then by making pretence to seek it in the deck, you "take the top card through the handkerchief" then turn the hand to reveal the card.
Philippe Billot
 
Posts: 951
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: PARIS - FRANCE

Postby Guest » 10/04/07 08:31 AM

Dear Philippe,

Looks like I was wrong... Thanks for this point. So your source much better. But just now I find information only about 1900 edition аnd on NY Pyblic Library 188? edition on microform.
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Postby Philippe Billot » 10/04/07 11:24 AM

If you want the book in french, here is a link :

http://cnum.cnam.fr/SYN/8SAR15.html

Magic is in volume 3.
Philippe Billot
 
Posts: 951
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: PARIS - FRANCE

Postby Guest » 10/06/07 07:54 AM

Thanks. I like http://cnum.cnam.fr/ and http://gallica.bnf.fr/ Two brilliant places for sources on Magic. Only one problem - after find information I interesting how to get it on high quality format. :-) I find some of good engraves about Robert-Houdin inside "La Nature" and now I search how to get that pictures on high resolution for my book about my hero Father of Modern Magic.
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Postby Philippe Billot » 10/06/07 10:43 AM

To paraphrase Mr. Jon Racherbaumer, my ignorance regarding this subject is dismaying.
Philippe Billot
 
Posts: 951
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: PARIS - FRANCE

Postby Guest » 10/06/07 01:46 PM

Our ability to discuss and help eachother in this matter is heartening.

:)
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Postby Guest » 10/06/07 05:17 PM

Oh, for peoples who know French gallica.bnf.fr is terrific soutce. Just type Robert-Houdin on search and you get 7 books!!!

On cnum.cnam.fr looks like all past issues of La Nature. There are a some of articles about magic. If somebody like book MAGIC: STAGE ILLUSIONS AND SCIENTIFIC DIVERSIONS, by Hopkins and Evans, with close looking of engraves they can fing signs by Poyet and Gilbert, famous gravers from La Nature. Of course, that articles just translations from French.
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Postby Guest » 10/24/07 03:36 AM

... and please note the following passage from the WHALEY Dictionary:
"(...)Invented probably by Austro-Hungarian magician St. Roman. This trick was first exposed in 1897 by Roterberg (1897), 57-59, as "Penetration of Matter"; also 1898 Stanyon; 1902 Erdnase/Harto; 1902 Neil). A pet effect of Houdini (by 1901), Henry Clive (by 1905), Nate Leipzig (by 1909), J. Warren Keane, Blackstone, Blackstone Jr, and John Carney (by 1983). REF: Hilliard (1909); Busby in Whaley (1991), 231; Ortiz (1991), 232-233.(...) "
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Postby Guest » 10/24/07 04:09 AM

... and another clip from WHALEY WHO'S..
"St. Roman
(Jaroslau, Galicia, Austro-Hungarian Empire [now Jaros_aw, Poland]: 14 Oct 1829-8 Jul [sic] 1917) Stage name of Samuel Thiersfeld, a Jew. Originally a confectioner but became interested in magic during military service. Pro illusionist 1857-1900, touring most European & some other countries. Retired in 1900, living his last years in Vienna.
Invented Card through Handkerchief (by 1897). Bio is H.F.C. Suhr, Jedermann Zauberknstler!: Anleitung zur Vorfhrung der effektvollsten Kunststcke des berhmten Zauberers St. Roman (1900, 153pp)."

St.Roman was Hofzinser's pupil.
I own that book. On p. 37 there is the effect: "Das Durchdringen der Stoffe" ("The Penetration of the Materials").
Several selected cards are returned in the deck, which is wrapped up into a handkerchief. The performer shows his hands empty and pulls the selections out of the deck through the handkerchief.
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Postby Guest » 10/24/07 12:51 PM

Stanyon's "Conjuring with Cards" (1898), mentioned by Herr Mller above, contains the following credit for "To Pass a Card through a Handkerchief", which uses the "standard" method:

"I an indebted to Mr. Geo. Weston, a very clever amateur conjurer, for this excellent little trick."

(Geo. is presumably Geoffrey.)

There is an interesting commentary on methods for the Card Through Handkerchief in the write-up for "Shakedown" (Collected Works of Alex Elmsley Vol. 2, page 197). The Elmsley method is different and very clever.
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Postby Guest » 10/24/07 01:25 PM

Geo. would more likely be George.
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