Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Discuss the historical aspects of magic, including memories, or favorite stories.

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Guest » June 14th, 2007, 11:35 am

Thanks for that, Dave. Certainly a different era for Ricky. He seems much more relaxed and seems to have a more personable performance style (his present day style seems more somber, or at least more dry). CHS

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 14th, 2007, 1:55 pm

I think Ricky's performance has improved over the years (just another area in which Clay and I will disagree).
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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Guest » June 14th, 2007, 3:17 pm

RK, I was only commenting on style, not the quality of performance. You're in a far better position than I am to opine on the latter and any improvements Jay has made over the years. C.

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Dustin Stinett » June 14th, 2007, 3:34 pm

Clay,

I think Richard is talking about style.

Ricky had an almost happy-go-lucky style when his hair was long and he was much younger. Today, he has a more scholarly style. I dont think his old style would play well today, given his age. I also believe it is his new style that theatergoers and critics enjoyed so much in his shows, and I agree. I think its great. What I think we see on this video is Ricky Jay in the transition between the two styles.

Dustin

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » June 14th, 2007, 3:40 pm

You can see the long haired hippie freak Ricky here:

Ricky Jay -- Cards Across

-Jim

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 14th, 2007, 4:05 pm

Dustin is correct: performance (non-technical) and style. One of the great mistakes Burns and Allen made was not to change their style, and it took them a while to figure out they were middle age and what had been funny in their 20s was no longer funny in their 40s. They adjusted, and made a comeback.
Ricky has matured as a performer--it's very obvious in the Arsenio Hall clip that he recognized the need to change as he grew older. In addition, of course, he's acted in quite a few films and been directed in both the films and his shows. Getting directed makes you a better performer. Unfortunately most magicians never learn that.
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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Guest » June 14th, 2007, 4:18 pm

Then we do not disagree, Richard (surprise!). I only meant to observe that Jays style seems to have changed since 88 and to offer a brief thought (right or wrong) on how it has changed, without judgment about whether or not hes now a better performer.

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 14th, 2007, 4:40 pm

Then we have an accord.
(Now my favorite expression, courtesy of Geoffrey Rush.)
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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Guest » June 15th, 2007, 5:03 pm

Anent Dustin's comments re Jay's transformation of sorts, it would be interesting to know if it was due to changing times (see RK's comment re Burns and Allen), a maturation of Jay as a person, a maturation of Jay as a performer, etc. I suspect such changes were more a product of Jay himself (i.e., internally generated) than driven by "the market" in entertainment, but that's more of a hunch than anything else.

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Doug Brewer » June 15th, 2007, 5:32 pm

I wonder if Arsenio has "matured" at all . . .

Anyone see this guy in the last 20 years?

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Mike Rozek » June 15th, 2007, 6:17 pm

My wife and I saw Arsenio do stand up w/Jay Leno in Hermosa Beach a few years ago. In short, he was great. His stand-up was very funny and he was an instantly likeable, very down-to-earth entertainer.

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Guest » June 15th, 2007, 7:19 pm

I have seen Arsenio in circumstances when you understood why he is considered a talent: he has a presence, he obviously has his charming moments, and I have seen some of his stand up that was way funnier than I expected...

But he was one of the worst talk show hosts ever.
I still have a favorable opinion of old Arsenio Hall, but he was one of the worst interviewers ever. To the point that I was truly impressed, on this clip, when he didn't shuffle the cards and said he knew it didn't matter. Good one.
On that set, I thought he was cursed to be bland and tentative to the point of inducing comas. I wasn't expecting him to whip out the ""I know it doesn't matter"-zinger! Well done.

Sorry. I do like A. Hall, but man that talk show was horrible.

JUST MY OPINION.

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Guest » June 15th, 2007, 7:35 pm

--Not Chevy Chase or Magic Johnson Horrible, mind-you, but definitely right up-there, in that strata of the historic t.v. pantheon of absolutely terrible talk shows...

Sorry Arsenio. :(

--But that was a bad show. BAD. (Not bad "cool", bad as in, I'm gonna snooze immed...But you can't finish because you're asleep. Arsenio's show was the medusa of talk shows. You catch a glimpse flipping through the channels, and BAM: DEAD asleep for 12 or 14 hours. It got serious sometimes.
But maybe I have blown it out of proportion in my mind over the years.

No, pretty sure it was that horrible...

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Guest » June 15th, 2007, 10:41 pm

Arsenio started his showbusiness career as a magician.

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Guest » June 17th, 2007, 1:56 pm

Not a Youtube fan, but when I click on the link I just get a white dot running in circles. All other videos work fine...

Tom

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Doug Brewer » June 17th, 2007, 5:17 pm

I will give Arsenio this, I like how he played along with the bent corner bit. I think the audience bought that he had pulled one off on Ricky. This, of course, had to have been a rehearsed bit, but I thought it added quite a lot to the piece (as opposed to having Jay himself bend it as an explanation).

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Guest » June 17th, 2007, 10:11 pm

O.k., Dustin, I am sure you briefed Maloney to watch out for my non-squiter music-video posts.

Here is his 1st real test as co-moderator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzoBkaFxh4

The ostensible connection is that Hammer seriously was (and perhaps still is) great-pals with Arsenio, and not to go out on a limb here, but that Hammer dude could dance fairly o.k. :rolleyes:

I've felt bad about so-harshly denegrating A.H.'s horrible, horrible talk-show (above, though my critique was spot-on).

I wanted to give everybody that's suffered through my "rants", a "chance" to "dance"! (Thank YOU.)

BREAK IT DOWN! :D

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Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » June 18th, 2007, 6:26 am

I wasn't briefed on anything, so all I can say is after you've watched your video, check out this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2oP6lMZMT8

That's been playing for the last month or so leading up to Father's Day.

-Jim

Guest

Re: Ricky Jay on Arsenio 1988--incl. 3-card monte

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 2:56 pm

I saw Ricky sometime around when Cards As Weapons came out.Definitely his long hair days :-)
He was at a litlle club in Arlington Va called Eskimo Nells. One of the most entertaining shows I've ever seen live.
Kim


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