Belinda Sinclair?

Tom Stone · Postby **Tom Stone** » August 8th, 2006, 1:04 am

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
If she wants to engage in pretentious performance art, she should do that in front of an audience which expects and appreciates that sort of thing.

I do not know if she was bad or just too different, as I didn't see it. But it seems like this is her "thing", and have been for some time. Maybe pretentious, maybe not, but if she was asked and booked to do her "thing", should not the one who booked her get more critizism then her? Like; if someone book an experimental deathmetal band for a family reunion, and no one likes the music, whose fault is it?
I asked originally, because I found her highly intelligent with a magnetic personality and over the top credentials... and got a bit worried due to previous bad experiences with someone with similar traits, where it later turned out that not a single word had been true. So I was re-assured to hear that she has been active since the 80's.

Matthew Field · Postby **Matthew Field** » August 8th, 2006, 3:21 am

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
Enough.

Amen.

I don't see the point of bashing a performer. Some didn't like her act. OK. I've seen Belinda perform at Monday Night Magic and do very well. I saw her at The Magic Circle Centenary and not do well. The same might be said, in similar circumstances, of many performers.

Basta.

Matt Field

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 8th, 2006, 3:21 am

I saw the performance, and I also met Belinda. The act is unique and I actually enjoy the idea of something original and that appealed to me. I also chatted wirh Belinda and she's very nice in person.

Ok, so we're not used to seeing magic in this format, but we weren't used to seeing two men like Penn and Teller perform magic when they first appeared on television to so their style of magic, either. Today, we respect Penn and Teller's talents.

If Belinda's way of performing magic with a group of interesting dancers and musicians has an appeal for laymen, let's see that as a plus for us all.

Personally, I enjoyed her performance and I'm looking forward to seeing her again in Newe York. Judging from her warm and friendly attitude, it's no wonder she's been as successful as a magician, She offers a lot to others, too.

Andrew Martin Portala · Postby **Andrew Martin Portala** » August 8th, 2006, 5:09 am

"Keep so busy improving your own act that you won't have time to criticize the other guys( or girls)"
-Karrell Fox

Brian Marks · Postby **Brian Marks** » August 8th, 2006, 11:02 am

Originally posted by andrew martin:
"Keep so busy improving your own act that you won't have time to criticize the other guys( or girls)"
-Karrell Fox

I second that.

Richard Kaufman · Postby **Richard Kaufman** » August 8th, 2006, 11:55 am

And what are we supposed to make of the last two posts ... that someone can get up, do a show that is terrible in both concept and execution, show contempt for the audience, and then be exempted from commentary about it?

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 8th, 2006, 12:37 pm

I think the foxy one was paraphrasing...

How did that go? Let he among you who is without sin, cast the first stone? Something like that, I'm sure.

Brian Marks · Postby **Brian Marks** » August 8th, 2006, 12:41 pm

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
And what are we supposed to make of the last two posts ... that someone can get up, do a show that is terrible in both concept and execution, show contempt for the audience, and then be exempted from commentary about it?

No. Shows at magic conventions are usually the worst way to judge a magician. You call it arrogant if a performer does an act laymen get but magicians don't. I call it reality. Magicians do not react to acts the way laypeople. Its a fact. How many people did sponge balls at FISM? But it plays well for laypeople. Maybe Belinda was a poor act for FISM..no it was definately the wrong act for FISM.

Richard Kaufman · Postby **Richard Kaufman** » August 8th, 2006, 12:42 pm

Well, what does that mean? That only performers can discuss and criticize what performers do? That makes no sense.

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 8th, 2006, 12:42 pm

Originally posted by Richard Hatch:
Ironically, Lennart Green, who deservedly received a tremendous audience response on the same program, is an MD, but no mention was made of that fact in introducing him.

As MC of the last close-up show I must tell everyone that Lennart doesn't want to brag about it. He lets his magic talk instead.

When I introduced myself as MC to Belinda she looked me stright in my eyes and with a forceful voice said "Reverent, doctor, Belinda Sinclair with Magical Beast... That's what I want you to say".

See it this way: She's one of the most talked about acts at FISM, and that is a good measure when it comes to PR.
Everybody knows her name by now... And boy are you all interested in seeing her act now.

I give her all credits for performing a very theatrical and original act.

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 8th, 2006, 12:54 pm

True, I do now know here name, but to be honest, I really don't want to see her act--No offense intended anyone!

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 8th, 2006, 2:05 pm

I'll tell you this, when you guys try to hire me for FISM, I'm going to be very unavailable, or very expensive :D .

Just everything I've read....sounds like a really wierd deal.

Still, Bejing in 2009 is going to be tempting, (to observe.)

Is there anyway to pay more money and get like, VIP access? Or will that depend on having a name, or being a performer? Where did Richard Kaufman sit? Derren Brown?

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 8th, 2006, 2:16 pm

I met Brenda at the Magic Circle Centenary. I watched her perform. I found her performance unusual and interesting.

However, I am offended that she would claim that her alleged AIMC status is "the highest ranking ever in the Magic Circles esteemed 100 year history." I checked the membership roster of the Magic Circle, and she is not even listed at ANY rank. Granted, it takes a while to update their membership roster.

Nevertheless, there are several female magicians who have achieved the MIMC with gold star status, among them Diana Zimmerman and Gay Blackstone.

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 8th, 2006, 2:28 pm

Good performers adapt their shows to the performance environment. Not taking into account the environment (both structural and cultural) shows a lack of ability on the part of the performer. It's the same as doing an adult close-up show for a group of 5-year olds: it's out of place.

Brian Marks · Postby **Brian Marks** » August 8th, 2006, 3:10 pm

Originally posted by Aaron Lee Shields:
Good performers adapt their shows to the performance environment. Not taking into account the environment (both structural and cultural) shows a lack of ability on the part of the performer. It's the same as doing an adult close-up show for a group of 5-year olds: it's out of place.

which makes her a bad choice for FISM It also shows a lack of ability on who booked her.

I fail to see how this makes her arrogant. Or of bad character. She held her audience in contempt for doing a show that impresses lay people not magicians? Are we not supposed to impress lay people? What is the point of impressing magicians? Penn and Teller & David Blaine are often critisized by the magic community have gone to extremely successful careers. Of course, they didn't enter FISM.

Pete Biro · Postby **Pete Biro** » August 8th, 2006, 3:11 pm

Hey, it's no big deal, I'm a member of the Magic Circle MIMC w/Gold Star. Shows you how low the standards can be :D

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 8th, 2006, 3:42 pm

I have to support Richards opinion 100%. She was in the show which I saw terrible. She handled this guy she brought on the stage so bad, that this whole show was for me a lecture, how you can destroy every magic moment in your show. And I was very exited to see her, because of this big article in the german "Magische Welt". But after I have seen this show - she was the biggest illusion of FISM!

Markus Lenzen

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 8th, 2006, 4:00 pm

Anyone else here been around long enough to remember the last disaster at a US convention, Dr. Magic? Sorry to see he wasn't able to take advantage of all that great press he generated.

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 8th, 2006, 4:25 pm

Originally posted by andrew martin:
"Keep so busy improving your own act that you won't have time to criticize the other guys( or girls)"
-Karrell Fox

As the editor of one of magic's top magazines, it is Richard's job to report what he sees as he sees it.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I saw Belinda perform at last year's Magic Circle Centenary. Her act left me feeling very angry with her as a performer and at her content. I don't remember the exact details but towards the end she went into some pretentious story that had no relevance to what she was doing.

With only a small change in direction, the story could have been engaging, blended in with the content and been theatrically satisfying.

There was the germ of brilliance underneath it all, but unfortunately the attempt to be 'arty' completely clouded it.

If Belinda worked with a theatrical (non-arty type) director, I believe she would end up with a show that would be commercially viable, artistic, and pleasing to both laymen and magicians.

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 8th, 2006, 4:47 pm

Brian, the act Belinda presented at FISM would not have impressed discerning laymen either. The negative responses are not just a case of the audience not getting what they expected. Her act was confusing, pretentious, and ran much too long.

A lot of us would have loved seeing a non-traditional magic show that laymen appreciate -- the show as presented at FISM was just not it.

Dan

Bill Wells · Postby **Bill Wells** » August 8th, 2006, 5:23 pm

Mark Phillips said:

"Anyone else here been around long enough to remember the last disaster at a US convention, Dr. Magic? ... "

Mark -

Pete Biro and I have certainly been around here long enough and I can assure you that both of us remember Dr. Magic very well. However, the real story of that act and convention was that half the attendees went to see Le Grand David and the other half went to see Dr. Magic. The groups were supposed to switch the next evening. Dr. Magic was, of course, canned after the first performance (and a complete new show put together overnight). Which group was the most upset? It was the group that DIDN'T get to see Dr. Magic because they couldn't believe what everyone who saw the show was saying.

Bill

Brian Marks · Postby **Brian Marks** » August 8th, 2006, 5:35 pm

Originally posted by Dan Smith:
Brian, the act Belinda presented at FISM would not have impressed discerning laymen either. The negative responses are not just a case of the audience not getting what they expected. Her act was confusing, pretentious, and ran much too long.

A lot of us would have loved seeing a non-traditional magic show that laymen appreciate -- the show as presented at FISM was just not it.
Dan

well thats clearer. Thanks

Matthew Field · Postby **Matthew Field** » August 9th, 2006, 2:48 am

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
Hey, it's no big deal, I'm a member of the Magic Circle MIMC w/Gold Star. Shows you how low the standards can be :D

Pete -- I don't see you listed on the Member List. Are you sure the Circle didn't raise their standards? :D

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 9th, 2006, 3:57 am

Hi everyone,i just thought i would toss another drop of petrol on the Brenda Sinclair fire!!Having checked the membership list this morning at The Magic Circle,no trace was found.It then dawned on me,what very apt initials this lady? has!!!!!!!! :p

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 9th, 2006, 4:24 am

Actually, I don't think anyone was upset by the criticism of her ACT - fair game in a forum like this.

I think it was the PERSONAL nature of some of the comments which upset some - prime example being the puerile attempt above

Bob

Brian Marks · Postby **Brian Marks** » August 9th, 2006, 7:37 am

Originally posted by Bob Walder:
Actually, I don't think anyone was upset by the criticism of her ACT - fair game in a forum like this.

I think it was the PERSONAL nature of some of the comments which upset some - prime example being the puerile attempt above

Bob

thats exactly it!

Richard Kaufman · Postby **Richard Kaufman** » August 9th, 2006, 7:45 am

I don't understand why sussing out false credits or credentials on someone's published list is either personal or purile.

If Belinda claims to be a lawyer, doctor, and Indian Chief--as well as a member of the Magic Circle--and she's not, she deserves whatever lumps she gets when publicity (good or bad) inspires someone to actually investigate her CV.

Brian Marks · Postby **Brian Marks** » August 9th, 2006, 7:46 am

actually she claims to be a parmedic. Not a doctor of medicine.

Richard Kaufman · Postby **Richard Kaufman** » August 9th, 2006, 8:54 am

I was using a well-known expression as an example, not stating that she claimed to be any one of them, so don't be non-sensical and nit-pick.

Pete Biro · Postby **Pete Biro** » August 9th, 2006, 10:48 am

Matt... my dues are past due... :whack:

Dustin Stinett · Postby **Dustin Stinett** » August 9th, 2006, 11:05 am

Originally posted by Brian Marks:
actually she claims to be a parmedic. Not a doctor of medicine.

Actually, her site says she has a PhD. in Divinity, which would make her a doctor. As John Houdi said in his post:

When I introduced myself as MC to Belinda she looked me straight in my eyes and with a forceful voice said Reverent, doctor, Belinda Sinclair with Magical Beast... That's what I want you to say.

Im still struggling with the Magical Beast part.

Dustin

Brian Marks · Postby **Brian Marks** » August 9th, 2006, 3:07 pm

I am not sure how her act at FISM means she is arrogant or of bad character. My experience with her shows neither of those 2 traits. I have found them in other members of the magic community but not her.

I was present at her interview with Time Out NY. It occurred back at Rueben's. The reporter sat with her and Michael Chaut, the producer of Monday Night Magic. The article named her best female magician. I doubt they meant the world but TONY didn't really specify.

As for the Magic Circle, I got no idea how they work or what they awarded her.

She was a paramedic without a doubt.

She has told me she was an ordained minister, whatever that means. Than again, Jamy Ian Swiss is an ordained priest in Universal life.

WHy would her act bring into question her PHD? I have no idea.

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 9th, 2006, 4:52 pm

Hey...I have never seen her perform, but all this talk makes me wonder if she kisses on the first date.....?????

Why don't we allow the lady to do her thing????

opie

Richard Kaufman · Postby **Richard Kaufman** » August 9th, 2006, 5:15 pm

Opie, you haven't seen "her thing." Talk to me about it after you've seen it and your jaw hits the floor.

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 9th, 2006, 5:21 pm

The Magic Circle - FYI:

AIMC is the highest degree which is awarded for performance in an examination situation. You cannot take an exam for MIMC, it is given by the will of the president and the approval of the majority of council - a different matter entirely.

Belinda Sinclair was a member of The Magic Circle up until last year's subs ran out; she is one of a very large number who have not renewed their membership this year. She took her examination, performed some skilled card manipulations and was brought straight in as AIMC according to the high marks awarded to her - I believe a minimum of 85% is required for this pass when taking MMC examination.

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 9th, 2006, 8:01 pm

Melinda: You may be right, but one should clarify that point (highest standing possibly given under examination circumstances) when one is claiming the highest ever award (or words/claims to that effect). But your comments do suggest that Belinda is quite skilled in sleight of hand, which brings me to RKs recent post.

Richard: Opies point was pretty clear, I thought. Let Belinda perform according to her artistic vision period, end of story. Its clear that you did not like her performance (as you have indicated time, time, and again on this thread). But just as you have the right to express your opinion of someones artistic presentation, that person has the right to pursue his/her vision. Just because you didnt like her act is no reason for Belinda to stop pursuing her vision. She simply does not have to satisfy the Richard Kaufmans of the world to be happy, successful, fulfilled, etc.

I agree with Opie: let her do her thing.

Clay

Richard Kaufman · Postby **Richard Kaufman** » August 9th, 2006, 8:33 pm

She can do "her thing" for whomever she wants, but the folks at FISM had no business booking her for a convention full of magicians.

Because I'm an American (as is the subject of this thread), people at FISM walked up to me at least 10 times a day and asked how Belinda's performance could have been so awful when she's billed as one of the top female magicians? I replied that her credits were a mystery to me, as was her performance.

If you think drumming, moaning, singing, and pretentious twaddle constitute a magical performance, then you watch it! :)

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 10th, 2006, 2:15 am

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
I don't understand why sussing out false credits or credentials on someone's published list is either personal or purile.

Richard - I never said any of that stuff was personal or puerile - I said that anything to do with her act (and we can broaden that to include how she publicises herself and the act) is fair game.

What I - and a few others - objected to were the stupid comments which DID get personal regarding her appearance, etc.

It's just not necessary - there is lighthearted (this is not meant to be totally serious, after all!) and there is offensive. The thread seemed to be degenerating into the latter at one point

I come here to get AWAY from Magic Cafe type posts.....

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 10th, 2006, 2:18 am

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
She can do "her thing" for whomever she wants, but the folks at FISM had no business booking her for a convention full of magicians.

Others seem to agree - then shouldn't the "folks at FISM" be the subject of the collective ire of this thread and not Belinda personally?

Bob

Guest · Postby **Guest** » August 10th, 2006, 3:58 am

Belindas act was actually very funny.

She struggled very hard to deliver some kind of mysterious message, I think the wording of the chorus chant was "pick it up, pick it up, pick it up uuuuuh!".
Two minutes later she tried to pick up tiny coins in front of 1000 people by means of the well known Schneider/Dingle pick-up-move, so the psychodelic ritual made some sense, even if not intended by Belinda.
Then she showed a very confusing three card monte with three picture (!) cards. This was very funny idea too, because her three dancing and singing mates on speed were the ones to pick the queen of hearts among the two black kings. I always thought that the idea is to impose some kind of challenge on the spectator, not on your own crew.

In my opinion the quality of the FISM-competition was very high. So after all that great stuff it did not hurt to see one really poor act in the gala, as long as it is different and it was.

I would nevertheless recommend to work on that pick-up-move, if she wants to play the role of a competent magician in a theatrical piece. There are many books and DVDs available.