annivesary waltz
annivesary waltz
I've read the instructions on doing this illusion, I've bought the Doc Eason video where he goes through how its done, but I still don't get it....... Any suggestions (other than try another trick)
-
- Posts: 1709
- Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Location: Northern New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: annivesary waltz
Well, can you be more specific about what you're not understanding?
The original version of this plot (Forgery, by Wesley James) is one of my favorite effects.
-Jim
The original version of this plot (Forgery, by Wesley James) is one of my favorite effects.
-Jim
- Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27058
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: annivesary waltz
The original version of the plot is an effect devised by myself, David Arthur, and Gene Maze called "Fusion." It originally appeared in CardWorks in 1981.
The Wesley James thing was publisher later.
The Wesley James thing was publisher later.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
- Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27058
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: annivesary waltz
Not really: this is old news. One of those little battles I keep fighting, since "Fusion" is one of my better items.
The other one is "Inversion." I had an almost identical item in CardMagic in 1979 called "The World's Fastest Reverse, where the entire deck visibly turned around. The one thing that Jim Lewis added--and it is a BIG improvement--is the outjogged card. The plot, however is still the same.
The other one is "Inversion." I had an almost identical item in CardMagic in 1979 called "The World's Fastest Reverse, where the entire deck visibly turned around. The one thing that Jim Lewis added--and it is a BIG improvement--is the outjogged card. The plot, however is still the same.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
Re: annivesary waltz
Richard: Can you give us a brief description of the effect? (Fusion)
Stay tooned.
-
- Posts: 1709
- Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Location: Northern New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: annivesary waltz
Though it appeared in print later (first mention of it was in Peter Samelson's book, Theatrical Close-up, which came out in 1984), Wes developed his effect in the late 1960's. He was performing it regularly at the Magic Townehouse in the early 70's, so any magicians around at that time can verify that fact. It wasn't until after he retired that he actually released the effect, and it appeared in his "Stop Fooling Us!" lecture notes, which came out in the mid-late 80's, IIRC.Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
The original version of the plot is an effect devised by myself, David Arthur, and Gene Maze called "Fusion." It originally appeared in CardWorks in 1981.
The Wesley James thing was publisher later.
Kaboom.
-Jim
Re: annivesary waltz
Based on discussions with Wesley what Jim said is accurate. I have no reason not to believe that Wesley developed the idea and presentation/handling well before 1981. Wesley is very passionate about proper crediting and I doubt he would misrepresent his own contribution or creations because of this passion. I highly recommend his notes 'Stop Fooling Us'. Now that doesn't mean that I doubt Richard and crew didn't come up with a simular handling in 1981 without knowledge of Wes' work.
Steve V
Steve V
- Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27058
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: annivesary waltz
Unfortunately, Wesley has never produced any solid evidence of his claim. I can say I created all kinds of things and and never published them. What the heck does that amount to? Where are all the magicians who saw him do it? What exactly did he do? How good are anecdotal recollections of a card trick seen 30 years ago?
Wesley never mentioned that he claimed the idea was his until years AFTER I'd published it. Too late.
This is not the only time Wesley has published something that has been questioned: people were surprised when Karl Fulves published the Cannibal Cards with Wesley's name on it. It is generally thought to be Matt Corin's. Ditto for LSD Aces, where the sudden reversal of the Ace packet at the end was established by Roger Smith at an earlier date.
Wesley never mentioned that he claimed the idea was his until years AFTER I'd published it. Too late.
This is not the only time Wesley has published something that has been questioned: people were surprised when Karl Fulves published the Cannibal Cards with Wesley's name on it. It is generally thought to be Matt Corin's. Ditto for LSD Aces, where the sudden reversal of the Ace packet at the end was established by Roger Smith at an earlier date.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
-
- Posts: 2631
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Edinburgh
- Contact:
Re: annivesary waltz
Coincidently I was reading through Epilogue on the weekend where Fulves explains in detail how the Cannibal Cards ended up being credited to James and not Corin...
I'm not defending anyone, just making an observation...
Take care, Ian
'F*ck off, Ian' - Bobby Bernard
I'm not defending anyone, just making an observation...
Take care, Ian
'F*ck off, Ian' - Bobby Bernard
Ian Kendall Close up magician in Edinburgh and Scotland
-
- Posts: 1709
- Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Location: Northern New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: annivesary waltz
The effect was shown to Vernon as early as 1968. Unfortunately, he's not around anymore. Peter Samelson states in his book that Wes was performing the effect in the early 70's. I imagine Geoff Latta or Jon Townsend might know something, though I can't say for certain.
I also feel the need to state that the idea that Wes would even try to claim someone else's idea as his own is completely ridiculous. Anyone who knows Wes will know how meticulous he is about proper crediting, whether it is one of his own creations or that of someone else.
-Jim
I also feel the need to state that the idea that Wes would even try to claim someone else's idea as his own is completely ridiculous. Anyone who knows Wes will know how meticulous he is about proper crediting, whether it is one of his own creations or that of someone else.
-Jim
-
- Posts: 1709
- Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Location: Northern New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: annivesary waltz
I'd just like to make a quick apology to web_jefe for hijacking this thread and taking it on its current tangent. I'm still willing to help with any difficulties you're having, if I can!
-Jim
-Jim
-
- Posts: 1709
- Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Location: Northern New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: annivesary waltz
It was incorrectly thought to be Matt Corin's. Wes had perfomed the routine for Matt, David Roth and Pete Biro sometime in the mid-70's. Check out Wes's "Stop Fooling Us!" notes or the Fulves reference for the details on the history of this effect.Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
people were surprised when Karl Fulves published the Cannibal Cards with Wesley's name on it. It is generally thought to be Matt Corin's.
Wes acknowledges Roger Smith's effect in his Stop Fooling Us! notes, though he was unaware of the it at the time he created LSD Aces.Ditto for LSD Aces, where the sudden reversal of the Ace packet at the end was established by Roger Smith at an earlier date.
-Jim
Re: annivesary waltz
Everything Jim said is correct as far as I can determine, down to the specific years. Wes didn't like to share with others his professional act, that is why it wasn't published prior his notes. After retiring from performing Wes did some lectures and sharing his idea's with the run-amokers like me.
Richard, again, I don't doubt that you may believe that it is original with you, and it very well may have been an original idea to you and your group of amigo's and no one is saying you stole anything from anyone. The fact simply is that Wes was performing it some 13 plus years prior to your coming up with it. That's the way it goes sometimes. Doesn't mean you were any less creative, just that you had to be that creative at age 5 or 6 to have beaten Wes to being first to do it.
Steve V
Richard, again, I don't doubt that you may believe that it is original with you, and it very well may have been an original idea to you and your group of amigo's and no one is saying you stole anything from anyone. The fact simply is that Wes was performing it some 13 plus years prior to your coming up with it. That's the way it goes sometimes. Doesn't mean you were any less creative, just that you had to be that creative at age 5 or 6 to have beaten Wes to being first to do it.
Steve V
Re: annivesary waltz
Wish I had a better memory for this. I do know that Matt and I worked out the Cannibal Card "presentation" on a train in England. That part of it was 99-pecent Matt's.
Of course the real creator was Lin Searles.
Of course the real creator was Lin Searles.
Stay tooned.
Re: annivesary waltz
pete
thanks for sending me the link to genii. also happy to see lots of familiar faces from the old magic!bbs days on here. i decided to dive into this thread because its the tenth anniversary of the recording studio and my departure from the magic scene. my son moved to colorado and left me the studio which ive been running since then. i will have to put a link to the magic! archives on the net. is frog around??? burton the bizarre??? glad to see everyone. :)
thanks for sending me the link to genii. also happy to see lots of familiar faces from the old magic!bbs days on here. i decided to dive into this thread because its the tenth anniversary of the recording studio and my departure from the magic scene. my son moved to colorado and left me the studio which ive been running since then. i will have to put a link to the magic! archives on the net. is frog around??? burton the bizarre??? glad to see everyone. :)
Re: annivesary waltz
Have not seen hide nor hair of Frog or Burton either... welcome aboard... Tabman :cool: :cool: :cool:
Stay tooned.
Re: annivesary waltz
thanks pete. you were the reason i showed up at MAGIC! too after i read about it in genii. that was back in the 1980s sometime. this forum that rk has put together is very nice. the last time i talked to burton the bizarre he had built a complex of five geodesic domes up at around 10,000 feet on the continental divide in colorado. i tried to visit him a few years ago and finally got to talk with him on the phone. last time i heard from frog he was headed to the castle cuz i think nathan was performing.
- BlueEyed Videot
- Posts: 208
- Joined: May 17th, 2008, 8:19 pm
- Favorite Magician: Max Maven, Ray Anderson
- Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Re: annivesary waltz
Well Tabman, I still have my "Crabb for Lunch" button...
... I wonder what became of that "Houdini" postcard that was left in the filing card box...
... I wonder what became of that "Houdini" postcard that was left in the filing card box...
Re: annivesary waltz
you know, i was thinking about that very same event just recently. i bet someone put it in their pocket and kept it. i suspect it will show up at a christies auction someday. at that point i guess ill have to come clean or just keep my mouth shut and make a few more!! :cool:
Re: annivesary waltz
...and after all these talks...
Poor web_jefe still doesn't get it!
:D :D :D :D :D
Poor web_jefe still doesn't get it!
:D :D :D :D :D
Re: annivesary waltz
Did we ever determine what he didn't get? It's a pretty straight forward routine so I'm sure we could get him over the hurdle.
Steve V <---has many hurdles before him
Steve V <---has many hurdles before him
-
- Posts: 1709
- Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Location: Northern New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: annivesary waltz
Nope -- I think we scared him away. Like I said earlier, though, I'm still willing to help with anything if he needs it.
-Jim
-Jim