"Mexican Turnover"

[Guest]

I have been practicing and performing a quick routine (RW Hull) from the Giobbi course that utilizes the Mexican Turnover.

Those who are familiar with this; what has been your experience?

Personally, some people look at me in utter amazement, then on occasion you'll hear from a teenager or an adult "oh...I know how you did that one" I usually smile and ask them not to tell no one and go on to another trick.

I believe if I pressed my antagonist, the only logical conclusion is that I switched the cards BUT if I they would take one more step back to realize I showed them the joker on the top of the deck and used (supposedly) that same card to turn the tabled card, it would destroy their theory. But I really don't want to get into a discussion of WHY they should be astounded, it just doesn't create a magical moment. I want people to be blown away by the trick and most people are, it's the other 5% I am working on. Any suggestions or comments?

Thanks

Steve V (the other one)

[Guest]

Originally posted by Steve Vaught:
... Any suggestions or comments?

How many times have you previously used a card to flip over another card in routines?

Consistency

When do you shift your focus to the tabled card?

Congruence.

[Guest]

i wouldnt worry about the 5%,some people like to think they know what you're doing but dont, if they did they would be doing it.i once went through the deck doing around 30 mexican turnovers, everyone was blown away.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Steve Vaught:


I believe if I pressed my antagonist

Perhaps perceiving them as 'antagonists' is the problem.

[Guest]

Regardless of how well you execute it the Mexican Turnover always looks a little suspicious. That coupled with some guilt in doing the move is certainly enough to alert at least five percent not to mention those who are just to danged polite to mention it.

Frank Tougas

[Guest]

Thanks Johnathan for your insight.

Have you done the move in front of a real audience?

[Guest]

Originally posted by Steve Vaught:
Thanks Johnathan for your insight.

Have you done the move in front of a real audience?

Not sure how to interpret your post. Yes, I have used the thing in routine and for audiences.

However, I also found myself unable to adopt the mannerism of using one card to handle another CONSISTENTLY and so had to abandon its use. My loss I'm sure.

[Guest]

Tamariz has a killer version. Look for it.

[Guest]

Tamariz performs the BROKEN TACO - ot the disrupted Mexican Turnover Change.
The Broken Taco move is is based on a handling of the MT developed by Lyle Laughin, see GENII, Nov. 1948, Vol.13, No.3, p.82.
Combine it with the "Expert Card Technique" handling of the fingertip on the corner!
Source: Dr. Gene A. Matsuura "Back To Back" Hank Lee, 1977.

Reinhard

[Guest]

I can't find my copy of it, but wasn't the "Broken Taco" introduced in Busby's "Back To Back" routine? For what it's worth, I had been doing that routine for years and it always went over well.

Wouldn't you know it....now that I need it to reference, I can't find the darn thing!!!

Adrian


FOUND MY COPY: I was wrong. It's used in the routine but Lyle Laughlin is credited.
Sorry.

[Pete Biro]

I came up, on my own, with the SAME move. Inspired with a session with Clarke Crandall when he talked about doing the MT on a wet bar.

[Ian Kendall]

There was a detailed discussion on the Mexican Turnover earlier in the year. A search might give you some more information.

Take care, Ian

[Guest]

I just looked at that GENII issue, which I recommend for reading:

In William Woodfields (ed.) column MAGICANA, GENII Vol.13, No.3, Nov. 1948, p.82 you find the article LYLE CARLYLE LAUGHIN DISCUSSES THE MEXICAN TURNOVER.
He started with Erdnases text and the developed a couple of fine points then.

[Guest]

Thanks Ian!
I did the search and found some wonderful info. The tip with lifting the card straight up was awesome!
As I am writing this I am thinking in the back of my mind..."You can learn plenty of techniques, but if there is not diligent practice, the illusion will not manifest". Don't get me wrong I have spent months practicing the move, but this reminds me of when I first started performing a ring and string routine. I had the moves down, but at the last phase of the rountine, the climax, on occasion, some people would catch me. I did not quit. I kept at it, I practiced in front of a mirror, I thought about the timing and what I was saying, the position of my body, many factors. Now! some six years later, it is one of the strongest close-up items that I do. I now borrow THEIR ring, go through the routine and then at the end THEIR ring appears on MY finger. I have performed this in front of hundreds of adults as well as the local TV station.

Through reading the Mexican Turnover discussion in 2005, that Ian referred me to, it seems I am in good company sticking with the sleight. So, the advice I have for myself....don't quit....keep practicing.

Ah..now see there, that wasn't so bad, and I won't even charge myself for the consultation fee!

Steve V (the other one)

[Guest]

I prefer Gene Maze's "High Pressure Mexican Turnover". To me, the "normal" one handed Mexican Turnover never looked right.

[Marc Rehula]

Maybe this line of posts is getting off track, or maybe it's just me getting off track, but . . .

I think a follow-up question is, Is the Mexican Turnover a basically lame sleight? I can name several sleights that I can't believe work with any kind of consistency, including Vernon's Peek Force, the Flustration Count, and even your basic Top Switch. I saw Martin Nash himself use the Peek Force, and I couldn't believe that his spectator wasn't humoring him on the obvious ploy. When I first saw the Flustration Count used (on a video) I couldn't believe that an actual magician was trying such a transparent effect!

Come on, I'm not the most perceptive person in the world. (The truth is, I probably lack any real vision, I certainly lack confidence, and just generally suck as a magician . . . but that's a separate topic.) I may have more knowledge than the average spectator, but I have to ask, Do these kinds of sleights work on audiences with any kind of consistency?

I understand that you shouldn't rely too heavily on any one sleight. Different handlings by different magicians is certainly a factor. And using effective misdirection is clearly key. But misdirection is never 100 percent reliable. Should we be happy to be entertaining MOST of an audience?

[Guest]

mrehula:
I agree that this is off the topic of the Mexican turnover, but in re: your comment on the flushtration count, I can tell you that I've used it a lot and it goes by unnoticed. (Either that or the specs are being way too kind!)
Bob Taxin

[Guest]

The Mexican Turnover works if you can make it look normal to turn over a card with another card, and if not, it looks suspicious. But it is actually deceptive--people who aren't fooled don't see it, they deduce it.

The Flushtration Count works too, if it's not overdone. In effect, it's the same as the double flash used by monte throwers, and we know that works.

The Top Change is visible on video, because you're watching the magician's hands, but it's invisible in practice, because the audience is misdirected, and the moves are natural.

You can actually win bets with the top change, and people who are betting aren't being polite, any more than the victims of the Three Card Monte are.

[Guest]

mrehula,
"Maybe this line of posts is getting off track"
I started this post and your question about a lame sleight is NOT off track. I didn't really know how to state it, but that is exactly what I was thinking as well, is the MT a lame sleight for a sophisticated audience. As stated earlier, I feel the sleight has NOT been abandoned by some "heavy hitters" in the world of cards. I feel OK putting the time to practice it more. In fact I was performing it tongiht at the restaurant and saw people emotionally respond to it in a fantastic way!!

As a side note, Mrehula, you mentioned about the top switch aka top change. Here is another sleight some people may avoid. I have found a WONDERFUL routine from Eugene Burger using this sleight. I use it in real world situations and get many wonderful reactions!

Steve V (the other one)

[Guest]

Interesting topic. I use the Mexican Turnover for a few effects and I think I've openly been called out on it maybe once or twice. However, I developed a specific routine where I use one card to turn another over legitimately at the begining of the effect so that when I go to do it again (this time employing the M.T.), I've already established that this is the way I turn cards over for this particular trick.

BTW, I've never had any trouble with the Flushtration Count. It does fool people. Of course, context is everything.

[Jeff Haas]

As long as you don't rely on the Flushtration Count as the main method, it's fine. It's used best as an incidental display, after the audience is already convinced of the state of the cards.

The Top Change, if done correctly, is never suspected. However, it's a fairly large move, and as Richard K. has mentioned, it was originally meant for use in a parlour sitation. In closeup, it's tough to misdirect correctly from it, and to justify the large amount of movement. It can be done in closeup, it's just that it's more natural to use larger gestures in a standup environment, so it's easier to hide.

For example, look in Royal Road at "Everybody's Card" and "Everywhere and Nowhere" for two good standup uses.

Jeff