Card Problem

[David Penn]

I'd like some input on a simple card problem. In the Labyrinth Magazine that was published using the exclusive material of Aaron Fisher, Stephen Hobbs published a trick called "Simple Searchers". I've been trying to figure out the best way to accomplish the following and I quote. "Spread through the deck and have a spectator select a card. Have the selection returned to the middle of the deck and control it to the position seventh from the top-ideally while leaving a face-down indifferent card protruding from the center of the deck. I will leave the method up to you. A variation of the convincing control can be used to accomplish this; Aaron uses a cover pass variation."

Question: What method would you use? How would you use a variation of the convincing control? How would you use a cover pass variation? Any other ideas? Thanks!!

[Richard Kaufman]

It's not Convincing Control, stolen by Marlo, but Immediate Bottom Placement by Larry Jennings. The original Jennings handling of "The Searchers" is much better, though I like Aaron's handling. The best handling of the trick, which eliminated all the heavy work, was Frank Simon's. Unfortunately he had a stroke shortly after he showed it to me and that was the end of that!

[Bill Duncan]

...The best handling of the trick, which eliminated all the heavy work, was Frank Simon's.

Richard,
For those of us who came to this control via Daryl's "Out Of Body Experience" and from there to Frank Simon's book can you give a brief run down of the crediting for this move? Does Frank Simon get any original credit or was it simply re-invention of Jenning's work?

It's one of the most perfect controls in all of card magic.

thanks
bill

[Jon Racherbaumer]

Regarding the history of Convincing Control: Allan Ackerman was actually present at early sessions that resulted in lots of contentious wrangling about the paternity and provenance of this technique. Rest assured, it is more complicated than proponents and defenders of either Jennings or Marlo are now willing to accept or concede. I was not "there." My friend, Richard, was not "there." Larry and Ed, alas, are no longer "here" to argue. Neither is Frank Simon. Allan Ackerman it seems is the "last man standing."

In the final accounting, the contentious aspects of this issue--if anybody will ultimately care--will be settled by others in the distant future.

Me?

I'm simply grateful that card students have many actual techniques that may be studied, examined, compared, practiced, and applied. Because I admired both Larry and Marlo, I no longer have any desire to argue on behalf of either...I thank both. And I thank Frank Simon, Daryl, Allan, and a host of others...

so...
Am I getting old or what?

Onward...

[sleightly]

Man, Jon.

You are getting mellow!

The sign of a true academician is the realization that all lines of study are valid. It is the continued work and study, as well as the germination that adds to the rich and diverse toolbox from which we all draw...

Andrew

[David Penn]

OK guys, now that we know who did what to whom and when, can anyone answer the question I posed in my original post? Thanks!!

[Richard Kaufman]

What original post ... was there an original post? I didn't see any original post ...
oh ... there it is ... sorry, don't have anything to say. :)

[Bill Duncan]

Ok, sorry for the topic drift.

How about a Bluff Shift under six cards or Dingle's Side Steal Placement (Complete Works page 103)?
;)

[Kevin Baker]

How about...

Using The Jennings Immediate Bottom Placement to outjog an indifferent card and relocate the selection 7 cards below it.

Then use the Mike Weber Spread Pass Control or the Fisher/Rosenthal Hermann Pass handling to shift all the cards below the outjogged indifferent card to the top.

Alternatively, control it to the bottom and use the same mechanics to transfer the bottom 7 cards to the top....

[David Penn]

Good stuff. Thanks guys!!

[Pete McCabe]

Have the spectator select a card, and while they are removing it, secretly reverse the top 7 cards of the deck against your leg, a la Jean Hugard and more recently Guy Hollingworth.

Take the selection and place it face up on the deck, keeping the reversed cards hidden.

Do an 8-card turnover (easy because of the natural break at the back-to-back cards).

Take the top card and insert it into the middle of the deck. Leave it outjogged.

Q.E.D.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Jon Racherbaumer:
Regarding the history of Convincing Control: Allan Ackerman was actually present at early sessions that resulted in lots of contentious wrangling about the paternity and provenance of this technique

Ok, I'm not a genius in math or anything, but I figure that if you have enough intelligent people thinking about card magic and they don't consistently communicate about their work, then it's quite possible for several of them to come up with the same idea at around the same time...

I mean, heck, if 100 monkeys typing on typewriters could come up with a play (in 1000 years) then why couldn't two card men come up with the same type of move?? :D

[Steve Bryant]

A freaky solution, esp. since I'm not familiar with the original effect. Cut deck into 2 piles on the table. Ask spek if he'd like to choose a card from pile A or B. Pick up indicated pile and form a wide spread, sighting the bottom 7 cards so that you can obtain a break above them. "I want you to just touch a card." As you look up and say this, close the spread, securing your break, and re-spread so that spek will choose from the cards ABOVE your break. He points to a card. Take it out and place it on top. Do a double turnover to reveal the selection (actually 2nd from top). Turn the double face down. Deal the top card (the supposed selection) onto the other tabled pile, outjogged. Cut the cards above your break onto the tabled mess, then drop the remaining 7 cards atop all.

[Pete McCabe]

Here's another in the competition for freakiest solution to this card problem:

Have spectator shuffle and cut deck. Pick up deck, saying you'll use the card he cut to the top.

Double lift, showing card to spectators. Secretly thumb count down six cards from the top.

Break deck there and insert double card. Comment that it should be a little lower, while you secretly push in bottom card of double. Now remove top card of double and put it in further down.

[Steve Bryant]

Excellent! Gary Ouellet published a nice method for secretly pushing in the bottom card of the double in his Genii column. Last time I looked, it was also available on his web site.

[Guest]

Okay, here's another approach to the original location problem. It's fairly direct, but it needs a humorous presentational ploy to make the actions seem natural:

Spread for selection, hopefully near center, and use LJ Immediate Bottom Placement (crediting dispute aside, I happen to like the details of this handling the best) to leave selection apparently out-jogged and actual selection on bottom of deck.

Say: "I leave it sticking out for a simple reason: that way, I'll always know where it is: it's the one card sticking out." Spread deck as you say this, sight count 7 cards from bottom and square up with break above those 7 cards. Cant the out-jogged card to the L a little. Continue: "Even if the deck gets cut, I can't miss it." As you say this line, do the following three-packet cut to table: Cut about 1/3 to table (cutting above out-jogged card for sure), cut all the cards above the break (with the out-jogged card sticking out of this packet) on top of the tabled pile, and then drop the remaining 7 cards on top. "Just kidding! I wouldn't play you like that," or something like that. Square the in-jogged card and you're set.

If you start with a card crimped seventh from the bottom of deck, or in-jogged seventh from the bottom, you can do the control and then immediately go into the cut without spreading/sight-counting first.

Basically a pass-less (and therefore less direct) version of Kevin Baker's second solution above.

--Ezra.

[Rafael Benatar]

As you spread the cards for a selection count 6 cards and hold them as a block in the fork of the right thumb as you continue spreading. Perform the actions of the Inmediate Bottom Placement only to the point where the selected card is disengaged from the spread. Secretly pull the selection under the 6-card block and feed it in there as you respread the cards, i.e. "you could have chosen any of these". Reverse spreading the 6-card block during the respreading action will help.

[Guest]

May I ask a qustion? What is the reason/motivation for leaving the
face-up card in the middle?