The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
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John M. Dale
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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby John M. Dale » December 29th, 2017, 7:03 pm

In my limited experience, my three phase "Crazyman's Handcuffs" (based on the write up in the Ammar book with the last phase having the band on the spec's hands) pretty much always kills and gets me the most requests to show their friends.

JMD

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Jack Shalom » December 29th, 2017, 7:39 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:
Jack Shalom wrote:I like the view that the best tricks give the spectators a great story to tell their friends: "Then we did this, and that happened!"


OOTW, perhaps?

What better story for a spectator to tell his friends?


Yes.

Or "And then he threw the deck of cards upwards, off the edge of the boat, and my card stuck to the bridge overhead..." :)

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 29th, 2017, 8:01 pm

Jack Shalom wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:
Jack Shalom wrote:I like the view that the best tricks give the spectators a great story to tell their friends: "Then we did this, and that happened!"


OOTW, perhaps?

What better story for a spectator to tell his friends?


Yes.

Or "And then he threw the deck of cards upwards, off the edge of the boat, and my card stuck to the bridge overhead..." :)


LOL Jack, I would have loved it if she could tell that story, and alas, if I, myself, could tell it...

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby erdnasephile » December 30th, 2017, 1:24 am

MagicbyAlfred wrote:
Jack Shalom wrote:I like the view that the best tricks give the spectators a great story to tell their friends: "Then we did this, and that happened!"


OOTW, perhaps?

What better story for a spectator to tell his friends?


Obviously any trick can be made to be boring; however, am I the only person who finds the original OOTW routine as published originally is a bit lengthy for the typical modern audience? I think the various more streamlined versions work better for me unless I have a very attentive informal group of friends to perform for.

(I think Armstrong's, Daryl's, Weber's, and Wagner's versions are my favorites).

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 30th, 2017, 1:47 am

The first phase of John Mendoza's "Red/Black Shuffle Routine" from "My Best" DVD series, Volume 1, is a very streamlined OOTW. The red and black leader or guide cards are dispensed with all together, much less having to switch them around in the middle of the routine. It is brilliant! Spectator still does the dealing. The only version I use.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Bill Duncan » December 30th, 2017, 10:58 pm

erdnasephile wrote:Does anyone else remember a sponge ball routine called "Clones"? It began with a clever production of the "clone" (orange sponge ball with eyes and red nose) from an eye dropper. It was goofy, but at least the theme of clones made sense with the big mutliball production at the end.


Patrick Martin marketed CLONES

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Leonard Hevia » December 30th, 2017, 11:36 pm

The Sacks dice routine has never failed to garner great reactions. The dice are kosher and can be examined afterwards. Once you get it down pat, it will stay with you for a lifetime. And the pocket space is minimal.

Daryl's packet version of OOTW is called Out of This Hemisphere.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby performer » December 31st, 2017, 12:35 am

Not everyone likes the Dr Sack Dice Trick. I certainly do but alas James Munton of Texas doesn't. Here is the evidence. Some of it might amuse you:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30872

And here is my favorite magician doing the trick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRvT_6msjcs

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Al Schneider » February 10th, 2018, 5:53 am

Sorry for being late to this parade but I gotta throw my two cents in.
Just a story.
I was hanging around the magic castle one day with a date. I bumped into Goshman. He did his famous sponge balls for my date. When Albert walked away, my date looked up at me with eyes rolling and said, "He just put both in my hand at the same time." I know that's not popular to say but that is what happened.

anyway, Here is a very powerful trick for me. It is Expansion of Texture. My handling is a bit different than standard. I got the basic move from Pete Biro. Then for the vanish I use my Schneider Vanish. The big difference in my handling is that I don't vanish the coin and have it appear in the hank with the other coin. Instead I do the fake transfer and pretend to rub the coin into the cloth.

This is my take with trick when I got out for an evening.

Here is the reaction I get about 75% of the time. The person holding the hank during the trick does not move when the coin is rubbed into the hank they are holding. In fact, there is no reaction from anyone. The eyes of the person holding the hand look like deer's eyes looking into the headlights of a car. They are not even looking at the magic that just happened. They just don't do anything. Normally, another spectator will pull the hank from the stunned helper's hands to see what is in the hank.

Is this entertainment? Hmmmm. My buddies will drag me around the bar so I can do the trick for their friends.
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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Philippe Billot » February 10th, 2018, 8:44 am

Hi Al,

Have you a strong reaction with your "Matrix"?

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » February 10th, 2018, 9:48 am

Al,

Thank you for sharing that story and your take-with trick! In your hands, and with your own special touches, it is undoubtedly a super-stunner. I am always fascinated to learn what trick gets the strongest reactions for a particular magician (as clearly evidenced by the fact that I started this thread). Speaking of reactions, I wonder what Goshman's would be to the comment your date made that night at the Castle about his sponge ball routine.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Q. Kumber » February 10th, 2018, 10:07 am

Al Schneider wrote:I was hanging around the magic castle one day with a date. I bumped into Goshman. He did his famous sponge balls for my date. When Albert walked away, my date looked up at me with eyes rolling and said, "He just put both in my hand at the same time." I know that's not popular to say but that is what happened.
Al Schneider


In 2010 I was at The Magic Castle and a magician asked me to show his lady companion a trick. When I'd finished, she said, "Thank you for not doing the bunnies."

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Jackpot » February 10th, 2018, 11:33 am

Q. Kumber wrote:In 2010 I was at The Magic Castle and a magician asked me to show his lady companion a trick. When I'd finished, she said, "Thank you for not doing the bunnies."


Now that's a strong reaction!
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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby performer » February 10th, 2018, 11:43 am

The Goshman thing was probably a one off reaction. I am quite sure that 95% of the time he did very well with the sponge balls. Once in a blue moon things don't work out. You only need to worry if it happens on a consistent basis.

I have been doing Expansion of Texture for decades. However I do like Al Schneider's variation. It may be too late for me since when you have been doing something one way for a long time it is hard to change since you have the exact timing on it. However, I think I will try Al's variation the next time I do the trick. I think I will miss the "clink" action that normally occurs when I do things the standard way as that little noise really makes the trick. Still, I think out of curiosity I should probably give Al's idea a try just to see what happens.

With regard to the title of this thread the trouble is that a trick has to suit you. What might bring the strongest reaction from laymen in one magician's hands may turn out to be a complete dud in someone else's.

Having said that I think the two strongest tricks I do from a laymen's point of view is MacDonald's Aces and Out of This World. The former gets an immediate reaction but the latter is the one they talk about for months afterwards. They seem to be too stunned to react immediately. Oh, and I do the original version and eschew all the other so called "improvements". It is not too long providing you are a good showman. And if you are not a good showman you shouldn't be doing magic in the first place.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » February 10th, 2018, 12:26 pm

Q. Kumber Wrote: "In 2010 I was at The Magic Castle and a magician asked me to show his lady companion a trick. When I'd finished, she said, 'Thank you for not doing the bunnies.'"

To me, that comment is probably about as common as a 4-year old kid during the Holidays saying to his mum, "Thank you for not taking me to see Santa Claus to tell him what I want for Christmas." In 25 years performing the Multiplying Rabbits, I have literally never encountered a lady who diid not react with the utmost delight to the routine.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Joe Mckay » February 10th, 2018, 5:34 pm

I have this weird theory about magic.

The invisible deck. And it is one of the first tricks that most magicians.

As such - magicians spend most of their time learning tricks that interest them rather than tricks that will impress laypeople. Since any new trick they learn is bound to be weaker than the invisible deck.

It is one of those odd things about magic. And the reason that so many laypeople don't enjoy watching magic. The reason being that most magicians are performing tricks that interest them more than they interest their audience.

I remember Mark Lewis making a similar point about the Svengali deck. It is the strongest trick he performs. And most magicians refuse to admit how strong it is compared to most of the tricks that are published in magic. And most magicians will spend 2 seconds considering that point of view before going back to practicing their Marlo variation on the Diagonal Palm Shift.

One of the main reasons I love The Jerx so much - is because Andy realises this as well. And instead of just advocating that we all go back to performing classics like the invisible deck - he applies a lot of thought and creativity to really trying to figure out what would most intrigue and impress a layperson when performing magic in the 21st century. I just love seeing a ton of creativity chucked at this important question. As opposed to ignoring the topic altogether and spending all our efforts on methodological issues that are ultimately only of interest to magicians.

And I am as guilty of the above as anyone else. What else can explain the countless hours I have spent on arcana such as the Gilbreath Principle and Stewart James effects using down/under deals! The last thing on my mind when I study such effects is what will appeal to laypeople.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » February 10th, 2018, 5:37 pm

Excellent point, Joe.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » February 10th, 2018, 5:38 pm

Philippe Billot wrote:Hi Al,

Have you a strong reaction with your "Matrix"?


Was this meant to be a rhetorical question?

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby performer » February 10th, 2018, 6:07 pm

Actually, Joe--the svengali deck is NOT the strongest trick I perform. It is merely the one I do the most and the best one I can do for trade show work for various reasons. I do a lot of card tricks with a regular deck which get terrific reactions such as 3 cards Across, Tipsy Trick, Poker Player's Picnic, MacDonalds Aces and many, many more.

In actual fact it was Ron Macmillan rather than myself who said that the svengali deck was just as good a card trick as anything else that someone might perform. However, if I am performing impromptu the last bloody thing I want to see is the damn svengali deck and I leave it where I happen to be working. It is the card trick that has earned me the most money but that is not quite the same thing as the best one I do.

Eugene Burger said a trick should "call to you" but I am not sure that is correct and it goes against the advice in Expert Card Technique. A trick can call to you as much as it likes but it is often the trick that doesn't call to you that gets the great reaction. And conversely the trick that calls to you may well be the one that ends up as a complete dud for you. In general tricks that interest you will go over better because you will enjoy doing them more but it doesn't always apply.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Jackpot » February 10th, 2018, 6:56 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:Q. Kumber Wrote: "In 2010 I was at The Magic Castle and a magician asked me to show his lady companion a trick. When I'd finished, she said, 'Thank you for not doing the bunnies.'"

To me, that comment is probably about as common as a 4-year old kid during the Holidays saying to his mum, "Thank you for not taking me to see Santa Claus to tell him what I want for Christmas." In 25 years performing the Multiplying Rabbits, I have literally never encountered a lady who diid not react with the utmost delight to the routine.


I agree with both statements with the following qualifiers:
The magician's lady companion has obviously seen more than her fair share of sponge bunnies. At four my son would jump up and down in anticipation of seeing Santa. If I asked him now that he's 34 I have no doubt he'd pass on the trip to the mall. The lady in question sounds like she is more like my son at 34 than my son at four. I have no doubt that in selecting the right volunteers Alfred has received great reactions to the Multiplying Rabbits.

I complement both Q. Kumber and Alfred for having selected the correct effect for their respective audiences.
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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Joe Mckay » February 10th, 2018, 8:18 pm

Joe Mckay wrote:The invisible deck. And it is one of the first tricks that most magicians learn in their first couple of months in magic.

Sorry - just wanted to correct my massive typo from earlier in the thread. Even though I am sure most people knew what I was trying to say!

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » February 10th, 2018, 9:39 pm

Good analysis, Jackpot. Thanks!

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Philippe Billot » February 11th, 2018, 2:39 am

MagicbyAlfred wrote:
Philippe Billot wrote:Hi Al,

Have you a strong reaction with your "Matrix"?


Was this meant to be a rhetorical question?


A strong reaction from laymen, of course!
It was a literal translation. There is no implication. But as you ask the question, I realize that there may be an "implied".

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Matthew Field » February 11th, 2018, 3:15 am

For me, "The Magic Bullet" aka the Gun Trick by Ken Krenzel.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Q. Kumber » February 11th, 2018, 3:37 am

Matthew Field wrote:For me, "The Magic Bullet" aka the Gun Trick by Ken Krenzel.


In Arial Frailich's book Card Stories, his routine, The Gunslinger, makes a great follow on to The Gun Trick (Peter Kane should be added to the credits for the latter).

Incidentally, the routine I performed for the lady at The Magic Castle was Slydini's Mystery of the Gold Pins from Apocalypse Volume One. I have only seen a handful of magicians do that effect and each and every one has left out the most important detail, which is clearly given in the instructions. If you ever see me perform the trick, I'll tell you what it is.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby performer » February 11th, 2018, 7:55 am

I have seen the Gold pins thing and think I even purchased it at one time. It doesn't mean a thing to me for some reason. Possibly because the things aren't examined and it is so simple a routine that I think the secret is obvious. And it isn't a patch on the Andrus Linking pins which I regard as terrific.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » February 11th, 2018, 11:07 am

Q. Number wrote: "In Arial Frailich's book Card Stories, his routine, The Gunslinger, makes a great follow on to The Gun Trick (Peter Kane should be added to the credits for the latter)."

Sounds like a great idea!

Was Francis Carlyle also a co-creator of the gun trick?

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Philippe Billot » February 11th, 2018, 11:46 am

Was Francis Carlyle also a co-creator of the gun trick?

Peter Kane described The Shooting Joker in Hugard's Magic Monthly, Vol. 20, no 8, April 1963 and then in A Card Session with Peter Kane in 1967.

Why do you think Francis Carlyle can be the co-creator ?

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » February 11th, 2018, 11:54 am

"Why do you think Francis Carlyle can be the co-creator ?"

http://www.conjuringarchive.com/list/book/1293

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Philippe Billot » February 11th, 2018, 1:27 pm

Yes but Denis Behr writes :" inspired by Peter Kane Single Shot. So Peter Kane was the creator.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Q. Kumber » February 11th, 2018, 1:55 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:"Why do you think Francis Carlyle can be the co-creator ?"

http://www.conjuringarchive.com/list/book/1293


I learnt it from The Magic of Francis Carlyle, where it is credited to Peter Kane and Ken Krenzel. The book's author, Roger Pierre,
infers that Carlyle's patter and presentation took the trick to a higher level.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » February 11th, 2018, 2:00 pm

Philippe Billot wrote:Yes but Denis Behr writes :" inspired by Peter Kane Single Shot. So Peter Kane was the creator.


But in that same window concerning the trick, Denis Behr also writes "Creators: Peter Kane, Ken Krenzel and Francis Carlyle." My understanding of the word "creator" is that it means "creator" more so than the words "inspired by" mean creator.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » February 11th, 2018, 2:10 pm

Q. Kumber wrote: "I learnt it from The Magic of Francis Carlyle, where it is credited to Peter Kane and Ken Krenzel. The book's author, Roger Pierre, infers that Carlyle's patter and presentation took the trick to a higher level."

Then it is not the Gun Trick without Carlyle.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Leonard Hevia » February 11th, 2018, 3:09 pm

The Gun Trick impressed my older brother many years ago when he was dating his wife. Her father knew a few card tricks and this was one of them he performed for my brother. When he got home, he told me:

"He turned the deck into the shape of a gun, and my selected card shot out the top!"

Apparently this effect really does get great reactions. I tried to look it up in one the few card magic books I owned at that time but I would not see this trick in print until I found a copy of Garcia's Super Subtle Card Miracles about five years later.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » February 11th, 2018, 3:51 pm

Nice story, Leo. The trick was a favorite of the Man with the Million Dollar hands. And yes, it is strong (although I would generally qualify that as saying more so for the male than female gender). One of the very first magic videos I ever acquired was a Frank Garcia VHS instructional video. It had his Benson Bowl and Sponge Ball routines, and a nifty card routine he put together, which featured (among other effects) a clever and unique handling of Spectator Cuts to the Four Aces, Triumph, and yes, the Gun Trick. Although I don't think he followed his own advice 100% of the time, Frank was adamant that we should always have a selected card signed, not only because he believed it personalizes and significantly heightens the effect, but to insure against the loathsome situation of the spectator forgetting their card, or worse yet, lying about it. He was a major influence on me as to the importance of routining effects so that they flowed smoothly and logically, one to another, thus conveying the impression of professionalism.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Leonard Hevia » February 11th, 2018, 4:22 pm

Frank did have an eye for those effects that garnered great reactions. He paid his magic dues behind the counter of brick and mortar shops demoing effects and knew what got the money. He always reserved at least one page of brief, specific bullets of advice in all of his books such as the importance of emphasizing what the magic effect was in each trick. He admonished that in professional engagements, the selected card should always be signed for the reasons Tom stated above and especially if liquor was being served in the premises.

Adding to Garcia's advice of routining effects to flow smoothly, Mike Skinner recommended learning your tricks in groups of threes to maintain them in your memory. The man had a huge repertoire, so who can argue with that?

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby Philippe Billot » February 11th, 2018, 4:59 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:
Philippe Billot wrote:Yes but Denis Behr writes :" inspired by Peter Kane Single Shot. So Peter Kane was the creator.


But in that same window concerning the trick, Denis Behr also writes "Creators: Peter Kane, Ken Krenzel and Francis Carlyle." My understanding of the word "creator" is that it means "creator" more so than the words "inspired by" mean creator.


Okay. Carlyle and Krenzel created their own version but the first who created the effect is Peter Kane in 1963.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » February 11th, 2018, 5:10 pm

Fair enough, Philippe. I am far from being a magical historian. It never has, and never will be my forte. You, on the other hand, have consistently displayed formidable knowledge in this area, so I will defer to you.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby performer » February 11th, 2018, 5:47 pm

I hate having cards signed because it slows up the action of the trick and in many hands can be a bit boring. Besides I hate to destroy cards that haven't done anybody any harm. It is like killing a member of the family. However, if you have to do it there is a way to do so without committing murder of a playing card. Stick a gummed label on it and have that signed.

I wouldn't have a card signed for the Gun Trick. It is a fairly quick trick and all the palaver of signing a card makes it twice as long. And it isn't necessary anyway despite what Frank Garcia said. The fact that it is a freely selected card should suffice to show that it is not a duplicate card being used and if you make sure the card is shown to others watching then the card cannot be forgotten.

I accept that there might be some tricks where the cards have to be signed but most of the time it really isn't necessary and there is a way around the issue.

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Re: The Trick with the Strongest Reaction from Laymen

Postby MagicbyAlfred » February 11th, 2018, 6:35 pm

Leonard wrote: "He always reserved at least one page of brief, specific bullets of advice in all of his books such as the importance of emphasizing what the magic effect was in each trick."

It is an important point. And speaking of Carlyle, I believe that he was a big proponent of that emphasizing-the-effect idea as well. Also, definite style points for emphasizing the word, "emphasizing," Leo.

I agree for the most part with what Performer is saying. I don't believe that even Frank had the card signed for the Gun Trick - which would be particularly awkward anyway given the double-decker spectator peek mode of selection... It's been a long time since I watched the Garcia video, but I believe what he did was have the spec cut to the 4 aces, then use the Ace of Spades (the "Big Bullet") for the Gun trick. The selection that was the shot out of the "gun" he then had signed, and finally went into Triumph using that signed card from the Gun Trick - a very nice flow overall. In a professional setting, however, I do believe it is good to have cards signed then given away after affixing a gold sticker with one's contact info. But certainly no signature in the Gun Trick in any circumstance.


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